The Impeachment Thread

#38,751
#38,751
USAFgolferVol said:
My God, man. Trump has shiit all over the Constitution on numerous occasions. Your rationalizations are pathetic and laughable, but that goes for most proud Trump supporters. It's your right to support someone who puts himself over the country, which Trump has done on a regular basis.
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Your takes are all words with no substance. All too often liberals make bogus assertions without any pressure to produce evidence or follow up questions on what the heck you are even talking about. Please name his constitutional offenses.
 
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#38,752
#38,752
BowlBrother85 said:
Well, in the words of Alan Dershowitz in 1999, "A crime isn't needed."
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So I'd argue he was wrong then. Saying a crime isn't needed seems like an easy way to set up impeachment as a political tool, something it was never intended to be. And there was an actual crime in the Clinton impeachment, yet he was acquitted despite admitting to it. The charges the House put forth are so undefined they have no merit. They were so intent on pushing this through they didn't put together a thorough, bipartisan investigation with actual defined charges. Now they expect the Senate to do their job for them. That's not how the process works. Thus far, the Dems have made this completely political. No amount of Trump hate makes that okay. The left has completely ignored that they're attempting to set a dangerous precedent that will eventually come back to haunt them if they somehow succeed. I have zero doubt a GOP controlled House will eventually attempt the same on a Dem POTUS. More justification is needed in an impeachment than "we don't like the guy".
 
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#38,753
#38,753
volfanhill said:
I don’t see how anyone with a brain can deny Trumps guilty. I also don’t see how anyone, with a brain, thinks this alone should be reason to remove him from office.
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I think he did it. But is thinking he did it enough? There's a big difference between thinking he did it and proving he did it.

And I agree, it's not impeachable. Unethical, but not impeachable. But the Dems haven't exactly been ethical in their multiple attempts to get him out of office either. Do ethics in politics even exist anymore?
 
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#38,754
#38,754
tvolsfan said:
I’ll give them every single person on their list plus a bunch of people they don’t like just for ***** and giggles to get 5 minutes of Trump under oath. Hell, we don’t even have to talk about impeachment. Just let the halfwit perjure himself a few times on national television.
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Apparently perjury isn't an impeachable offense.
 
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#38,755
#38,755
AM64 said:
Vindman is certainly wearing a lot of flair (think back to the movie Office Space). I never understood why the Army finally came up with a very classy uniform and trashed it. And now they are going retro, it looks absurd, and there's the cost of transition ... way to be efficient with funding. Whatever else, though, Vindman does nail "dough boy" very well.
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"Flair"..lol. Be like Brian.
 
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#38,756
#38,756
C-south said:
Lol. So there’s no wrongdoing in threatening to withhold funds unless a prosecutor investigating corruption involving a company that you and your family are cashing in off of is removed?
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I support an investigation of Burisma and the Bidens. I *hope* the Senate calls Hunter Biden as a witness. Having said that, to date, there's no evidence of any wrongdoing by Joe Biden. Hunter Biden? Looks to be coasting on his family name.

TLDR:

(1) Official US policy directed Joe Biden to oust the corrupt Ukrainian Prosecutor General.
(2) Congress was wholly aware of this policy, and there was bipartisan support to remove that Ukrainian official.
(3) Hunter Biden cashed in on his dad's name.
(4) Zero evidence of any wrongdoing by Joe Biden.


Joe Biden didn’t do anything to help Hunter in Ukraine

Back in 2014 after a change of regime in Ukraine, Hunter Biden joined the board of a scandal-plagued Ukrainian natural gas company named Burisma. Hunter had no apparent qualifications for the job except that his father was the vice president and involved in the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy.

He got paid up to $50,000 per month for the job and the situation constituted the kind of conflict of interest that was normally considered inappropriate in Washington until the Trump era. These days, of course, the president of the United States regularly accepts payments from foreign sources to his company while in office, and so do the Trump children. The Obama administration probably should have done something about this at the time, but the White House couldn’t literally force Hunter not to accept the job. And given the larger family context, you can see why Joe might have been reluctant to confront his son about it.

This would all be a small footnote in history except that by 2016, officials throughout the Obama administration and in Western Europe had come to a consensus that Ukraine’s prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, wasn’t doing enough to crack down on corruption. Biden, as he later colorfully recounted, delivered the message that the West wanted Shokin gone or else loan guarantees would be held up, and Shokin was, in turn, fired.

There was nothing remotely controversial about this at the time. No congressional Republicans complained about it, and the European Union hailed the decision to fire Shokin. The reason there is video footage of Biden touting his personal role in this is it was considered a foreign policy triumph that Biden wanted to claim credit for, not anything sordid or embarrassing.

But Shokin, of course, didn’t want to go down on the theory that he was corrupt or incompetent. So he started offering another theory: he was fired for going after Burisma by Joe Biden operating on behalf of Hunter Biden.

The question of whether Shokin was actually investigating Burisma at all is a matter of dispute (the relevant Ukrainian players have told inconsistent stories), but this is clearly not the reason he was fired. The desire to push him out was fully bipartisan in the United States and reflected a consensus across European governments, not than anything idiosyncratic to Biden.

The notion that firing Shokin was somehow problematic was not in the air until the New York Times ran a story co-bylined by Ken Vogel and a Ukrainian journalist named Iuliia Mendel (who a few weeks later would become Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s official spokesperson) highlighting Rudy Giuliani’s efforts at muckraking.

The worst you can say about any of this, however, was that Hunter’s position on the board was a standing conflict of interest that should have been avoided. There’s no evidence that Joe did anything wrong, specifically. But an examination of the life and times of Hunter Biden does provide a reminder that most Americans thought politics as usual was corrupt long before Trump arrived on the scene to make it more corrupt.
 
#38,758
#38,758
Weezer said:
I think he did it. But is thinking he did it enough? There's a big difference between thinking he did it and proving he did it.

And I agree, it's not impeachable. Unethical, but not impeachable. But the Dems haven't exactly been ethical in their multiple attempts to get him out of office either. Do ethics in politics even exist anymore?
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Did they ever?
 
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#38,759
#38,759
USAFgolferVol said:
I just asked a question because you sounded so sure of yourself as if you knew better about a legal matter than an established attorney. Not surprising. Pretty typical stuff from Team Trump
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Maybe you can answer what your well established friend couldn't. Why did the Republicans subpoena witnesses in the Clinton impeachment? They ran the same risk the the Democrats did in Trumps and it worked out pretty well for them.
 
#38,761
#38,761
BowlBrother85 said:
You mean, you hope it stops before John Bolton can testify that Donald Trump directly told him in August that he wanted the freeze on the military aid to the Ukraine to remain in place until Ukrainian officials had helped with investigations into Democrats, including the Bidens.
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Nope. You mean you hope with all your heart that’s actually true. The NYT, yet again, ran with the story with no verification so we shall see. But even if it is true what does it matter? If Trump said I don’t want to release the aid but then does how is that an impeachable offense?
 
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#38,770
#38,770
tvolsfan said:
Rick was harsh, but he was not inaccurate.
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No idea who anyone of them are except the guy in the middle with ratings lower than The Golden Girls re runs. But let me say this, this is why most American hate and don’t trust the media. I bet none of those cowards would come to the south since those who they were making fun of and do it in person
 
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#38,771
#38,771
volfanjustin said:
No idea who anyone of them are except the guy in the middle with ratings lower than The Golden Girls re runs. But let me say this, this is why most American hate and don’t trust the media. I bet none of those cowards would come to the south since those who they were making fun of and do it in person
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Rick Wilson (the guy on the right) lives in Florida. I would bet that he already has.
 
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