The Impeachment Thread

[AM64]

Ok. What congressional behavior, then?

All of it?

 

[Weezer]

I seem to recall Revere actually got captured and released, and was the only one who didn't get the message through. Seems like he was pretty far from a patriot at a particular battle involving a river and boats ... not a famous one, and I can't dredge up the name from memory.

IIRC, he was captured as were Dawes and Prescott. Prescott and Dawes escaped, and I think only Prescott reached Concord. Dawes got lost, and Revere was eventually released, but sans horse, and returned to Lexington. Also, it's doubtful they would have yelled "the British are coming!". For one, their mission was one of secrecy, and two, they still considered themselves British so if they yelled anything it would have most like been something more like "the redcoats are coming!".

 

[VolnJC]

I seem to recall Revere actually got captured and released, and was the only one who didn't get the message through. Seems like he was pretty far from a patriot at a particular battle involving a river and boats ... not a famous one, and I can't dredge up the name from memory.

I saw on Drunk History.. which is a good show btw that there was a 16 year old girl that got through and rode further than Revere

Sybil Ludington - Wikipedia

 

[StarRaider]

My wish would have been someone other than Hillary or Trump in 2016

 

[RockyTop85]

I'm confused about one thing. Trump wasn't a politician, so by definition he didn't use political office for his own gain. I do realize a lot of people are trying to claim now without proof that he's doing so, but he's nothing like run of the mill bought and sold politicians. If he's getting rich by having military pilots stay at his resorts on government per diem, that would be a first. Besides, that story's been debunked.

I’m skeptical that this is going to be a productive conversation if we’re starting off with “without proof.” The Ukraine thing has been pretty thoroughly proven, unless you’re looking for a reason to keep supporting him. He asked Ukraine to investigate a political rival. That’s using the office for personal gain.

And the grift with the Air Force was that we were keeping the airport that services Trump’s property afloat. I agree the per diem’s were sensationalized and probably less significant, but he’s still spent hundreds of millions at his properties, not to mention what foreign diplomats have spent there. Impossible to say whether this has resulted in any favorable kickbacks to those countries, because he won’t comply with oversight.

I agree that grift in Washington is a problem. I don’t see how anybody can be convinced that it happens regularly but say there’s not enough proof to dissuade them from supporting this guy, who does it openly, unapologetically, and refuses to cooperate with constitutional oversight.

 

[Weezer]

Ok. What congressional behavior, then?

All of it?

Honestly, this. Do Congressional members have any oversight at all? All of this screaming for taxes of Presidential tax returns, how often are their own scrutinized? How does one become a millionaire while serving in Congress? What about some one like Mad Max who has openly encouraged violence and confrontation at times? And I do believe several, from both sides, have abused their powers for political gain, much like what Trump is now accused of. Personally, I think bad behavior is running rampant through both the Senate and the House. And the investigations should start with those who have served the longest. I'll never stop believing we need term limits for Congress in general.

 

[AM64]

I’m skeptical that this is going to be a productive conversation if we’re starting off with “without proof.” The Ukraine thing has been pretty thoroughly proven, unless you’re looking for a reason to keep supporting him. He asked Ukraine to investigate a political rival. That’s using the office for personal gain.

And the grift with the Air Force was that we were keeping the airport that services Trump’s property afloat. I agree the per diem’s were sensationalized and probably less significant, but he’s still spent hundreds of millions at his properties, not to mention what foreign diplomats have spent there. Impossible to say whether this has resulted in any favorable kickbacks to those countries, because he won’t comply with oversight.

I agree that grift in Washington is a problem. I don’t see how anybody can be convinced that it happens regularly but say there’s not enough proof to dissuade them from supporting this guy, who does it openly, unapologetically, and refuses to cooperate with constitutional oversight.

I agree, but proof is hard to come by when it pertains to politicians and what they do ... even first term types. I don't often agree with you, but for the "opposition" you are far more reasonable than the rest, so I do pay attention to what you say. Every now and then we agree when we find the common language to debate something (like federalism); I enjoy those discoveries - that we can see much differently but agree on some of the bigger things.

Actually I wasn't even thinking about the Ukrainian thing. I guess investigating improprieties in an opponent's actions can be personal gain, or it could be cleaning things up. I tend to discount Biden because I don't see him as Trump's opposition. I honestly don't see a connection between Trump's phone call and Ukrainian foreign aid, but that may be just me. I certainly don't see the on camera comment about China looking into things as a request. As far as Rudy goes, Trump is a fool for keeping that clown around ... nothing but trouble can come from that.

I have serious doubts about the Syrian move considering what Turkey is doing, but then I also question our presence there in the first place. I think Trump is a pompous ass, and can't imagine how anybody with a spine can work with him. To me Tillerson was a class act, and we see how that went - but we only saw that from the outside, so who knows.

 

[tennvols77]

Honestly, this. Do Congressional members have any oversight at all? All of this screaming for taxes of Presidential tax returns, how often are their own scrutinized? How does one become a millionaire while serving in Congress? What about some one like Mad Max who has openly encouraged violence and confrontation at times? And I do believe several, from both sides, have abused their powers for political gain, much like what Trump is now accused of. Personally, I think bad behavior is running rampant through both the Senate and the House. And the investigations should start with those who have served the longest. I'll never stop believing we need term limits for Congress in general.

Amazing the FBI can't produce one shred of a case against anyone in the Senate or House....... have a feeling as to why...........

Along with term limits (should be the law) there needs to be 5/10/15/20 million dollar tax free rewards for whistle blowers who have proof of dirty politiicans and anyone assoicated with them and there should be a separate court to go through these cases. This is effective, this makes coming forward much easier, and it will within time make it hard to be a corrupt pos politician. Just as with term limits, how we getting this on the books as law?

 

[luthervol]

If this is the game you want to play, then I disagree with your opinion. And let's clarify these are opinions, not facts. IMO, the Dems are far more guilty because they knew what they were getting with Hillary. They rigged their primary to ensure her the nomination. Other than every knowing he was a pompous ass, Trump was more of an unknown quantity. People wanted different, even though what they got is more of the same.

Despite your rumblings, Hillary was not the victim of a right wing propaganda campaign. The woman is one of the dirtiest politicians of our time. And just as you(and others) talk about Trump having followers and defenders, you do the same for her. She is your Trump. She's a liar, she's corrupt, she's a vile despicable person.

Now I can respect that.
Our opinions do differ.
Like you said, the people ultimately decide; and they decide based on their opinions. (that's why propagandized ignorance is delegitimizing)
Critical mass and all.
My goal has always been and will always be to help critical mass be against Trump because I truly believe (IMHO) that he is a horrendously despicable human (the worst POTUS ever) who should never have been elected and should be removed from office ASALP. (As soon as legally possible - which unbelievably may be the next election).
Trumpism has done great long term damage to our country and the fabric of society, and will increasingly continue to do so even after he is removed from office. IMHO

 

[Weezer]

Now I can respect that.
Our opinions do differ.
Like you said, the people ultimately decide; and they decide based on their opinions. (that's why propagandized ignorance is delegitimizing)
Critical mass and all.
My goal has always been and will always be to help critical mass be against Trump because I truly believe (IMHO) that he is a horrendously despicable human (the worst POTUS ever) who should never have been elected and should be removed from office ASALP. (As soon as legally possible - which unbelievably may be the next election).
Trumpism has done great long term damage to our country and the fabric of society, and will increasingly continue to do so even after he is removed from office. IMHO

I can respect all of that but the last sentence, and even that I could respect if you didn't limit Trumpism to Trump and Trump supporters. If that expended to include the toxic reaction from the left the day he was elected, it would be far more accurate. It's not just Trump that has divided the nation. He carries his share of guilt, and we can debate what percentage that might be(though I doubt we would agree), but the left didn't even let him take office before basically losing their minds over him being elected. The objections were immediate, as were the attempts to delegitimize the election. I can agree that Trump is a horrible person that never should have been elected(while contending Hillary is the same), but can you agree that the left has done great harm as well to "our country and the fabric of society"? Neither side is innocent. I know you love your degrees and continuums, but both sides have contributed to this.

 

[UT_VOLS13]

Ukraine whistleblower wants to testify in writing instead of appearing in person, report says

 

[luthervol]

I can respect all of that but the last sentence, and even that I could respect if you didn't limit Trumpism to Trump and Trump supporters. If that expended to include the toxic reaction from the left the day he was elected, it would be far more accurate. It's not just Trump that has divided the nation. He carries his share of guilt, and we can debate what percentage that might be(though I doubt we would agree), but the left didn't even let him take office before basically losing their minds over him being elected. The objections were immediate, as were the attempts to delegitimize the election. I can agree that Trump is a horrible person that never should have been elected(while contending Hillary is the same), but can you agree that the left has done great harm as well to "our country and the fabric of society"? Neither side is innocent. I know you love your degrees and continuums, but both sides have contributed to this.

I think the right had to have anticipated that reaction. I certainly knew it was coming. I also believe that was Trump's appeal to many - the fact that he caused liberals such anguish. Look at the times on this board someone has said, "the liberal tears make it worth it". How many times someone has said they could watch that video clip over and over of the young girl crying. Frankly, I would have been devastated had the left just accepted the election. Trump crosses the line, he is unacceptable.

To me, it's sort of like two countries that have a fragile peace agreement; they will mildly test each other and agitate each other, but they both know what line can't be crossed. The nomination and election of Trump was nothing more than the repubs. saying, "we're knowingly crossing that line. What are you going to do about it?" A failure to retaliate would have been unacceptable. The repubs crossing that line was unconscionable.

The democratic party has plenty of problems. They are not that much better than the republican party. But they are better, and their policies are closer to being correct.

 

[37L1]

I think the right had to have anticipated that reaction. I certainly knew it was coming. I also believe that was Trump's appeal to many - the fact that he caused liberals such anguish. Look at the times on this board someone has said, "the liberal tears make it worth it". How many times someone has said they could watch that video clip over and over of the young girl crying. Frankly, I would have been devastated had the left just accepted the election. Trump crosses the line, he is unacceptable.

To me, it's sort of like two countries that have a fragile peace agreement; they will mildly test each other and agitate each other, but they both know what line can't be crossed. The nomination and election of Trump was nothing more than the repubs. saying, "we're knowingly crossing that line. What are you going to do about it?" A failure to retaliate would have been unacceptable. The repubs crossing that line was unconscionable.

The democratic party has plenty of problems. They are not that much better than the republican party. But they are better, and their policies are closer to being correct.

Geez,

The easiest thing would have been to win the election. But that option always escapes you as you are looking to assign blame.

Go look in the mirror.

 

[MontyPython]

"SCOOP: Indicted pro-TRUMP Ukraine researcher LEV PARNAS told people he paid RUDY GIULIANI hundreds of thousands of dollars to work for his firm Fraud Guarantee . "

Sounds about right. If Rudy's involved, Fraud is Guaranteed.

 

[luthervol]

Geez,

The easiest thing would have been to win the election. But that option always escapes you as you are looking to assign blame.

Go look in the mirror.

You guys NOMINATED TRUMP from a field of 17.
There is no way to hide from or twist that uncomfortable fact.
Trump is only president because people chose to pull the lever FOR him in the primaries.
And then pulled the lever FOR him or against Hillary in the election.
Own it.

 

[Weezer]

I think the right had to have anticipated that reaction. I certainly knew it was coming. I also believe that was Trump's appeal to many - the fact that he caused liberals such anguish. Look at the times on this board someone has said, "the liberal tears make it worth it". How many times someone has said they could watch that video clip over and over of the young girl crying. Frankly, I would have been devastated had the left just accepted the election. Trump crosses the line, he is unacceptable.

To me, it's sort of like two countries that have a fragile peace agreement; they will mildly test each other and agitate each other, but they both know what line can't be crossed. The nomination and election of Trump was nothing more than the repubs. saying, "we're knowingly crossing that line. What are you going to do about it?" A failure to retaliate would have been unacceptable. The repubs crossing that line was unconscionable.

The democratic party has plenty of problems. They are not that much better than the republican party. But they are better, and their policies are closer to being correct.

And this just highlights our disagreements. You choose a side and say it's better. I say both sides are bad and we need to find change.

And your reasoning on why the left immediately went after Trump as soon as he was elected is, quite frankly, unreasonable. It wasn't just the Republicans who elected him either. Sure, he was their candidate and he ran on their ticket, but not only Republicans voted for him. No different than any election where independents play a large role in who is elected. So it wasn't just a Dem/GOP thing. It was trying to undo a lawful election. But because you hate Trump with such passion, you think it's justified. How are you going to feel when the same actions are taken against someone you support? Is that when it becomes unacceptable?

One of the constants I've kept is how things go both ways. You can't support actions because they were taken by your side then protest the same tactics when used by the other side. There's no morality in that.

 

[37L1]

You guys NOMINATED TRUMP from a field of 17.
There is no way to hide from or twist that uncomfortable fact.
Trump is only president because people chose to pull the lever FOR him in the primaries.
And then pulled the lever FOR him or against Hillary in the election.
Own it.

Your party couldn't find somebody to beat him in the general election, absolutely, could, not. And it should have been easy.

Own it.

 

[VolnJC]

Nothing to see here just a dinner party with
Comey Brennan Clapper and Renzi along with the Whistleblower in 2016..along the same time that SpyGate and the Ukraines were digging up dirt on Trump

 

[0nelilreb]

You guys NOMINATED TRUMP from a field of 17.
There is no way to hide from or twist that uncomfortable fact.
Trump is only president because people chose to pull the lever FOR him in the primaries.
And then pulled the lever FOR him or against Hillary in the election.
Own it.

Ok and the Dems elected the worst candidate in their history to run for POTUS . So bad in fact that she couldn’t beat Trump . There’s lots of “ owning “ to go around .

 

[Weezer]

You guys NOMINATED TRUMP from a field of 17.
There is no way to hide from or twist that uncomfortable fact.
Trump is only president because people chose to pull the lever FOR him in the primaries.
And then pulled the lever FOR him or against Hillary in the election.
Own it.

Trump was elected from a field of two. And maybe some did vote for him because they didn't want to vote for Hillary, but again, there were TWO choices. If they voted against Hillary they obviously were not satisfied with the candidate your side chose. Stop and think, Luther. People found Trump to be a more desirable candidate than Hillary. We're not talking about primaries where only party members vote. We're talking a general election where the populace votes. Why can you not "own" that?

You constantly deflect blame from your party trying to find fault somewhere else. Do you do that in life as well? Are you one of those people where nothing is ever your fault?

 

[TN Ribs]

Disgusting

Maybe Trump should start paying for his rallies instead of stiffing the cities that host them. Kind of like his personal life when he was constantly stiffing contractors. No integrity, MAGA baby!

 

[Weezer]

Maybe Trump should start paying for his rallies instead of stiffing the cities that host them. Kind of like his personal life when he was constantly stiffing contractors. No integrity, MAGA baby!

Yes, that certainly justifies his detractors rushing the police and calling them names.

 

[TN Ribs]

Yes, that certainly justifies his detractors rushing the police and calling them names.

Get over yourself, Trump is the biggest name-caller on the planet. He's an infant.

 

[Weezer]

Get over yourself, Trump is the biggest name-caller on the planet. He's an infant.

And what does that have to do with the police? I don't think I'm the one who needs to "get over" myself. If you can justify Trump hate as grounds for attacking police officers, I think you're a bit unhinged.

 

[BigOrangeD]

65% Believe Congress is Focused More On Impeachment Than Issues; 62% Want the Opposite

At this point in time, 65% of voters believe Congress is spending more time focused on impeachment rather than issues such as health care and the economy. A ScottRasmussen.com national survey found that 15% disagree and 20% are not sure.
However, 62% believe Congress should be more focused on the issues. Twenty-seven percent (27%) disagree and want the focus on impeachment. Eleven percent (11%) are not sure.
Republicans, by an 81% to 14% margin, believe the focus should be on the issues. Independent voters, by a 60% to 26% margin, share that view. Democrats lean in that direction as well, but are more evenly divided–48% want the focus on issues and 39% on impeachment.
Seventy-six percent (76%) of Republicans believe Congress is primarily focused on impeachment at this time. So do 64% of Independent voters and 58% of Democrats.
Data released earlier showed that most Democrats believe an impeachment effort will hurt President Trump in the 2020 election. A plurality of Republicans believe it will help him.
ScottRasmussen.com has been measuring support for impeachment on a weekly basis. The most recent results show that 48% believe the president should be impeached and removed from office. Thirty-nine percent (39%) disagree.
...