The Liberal Argument for a Higher Minimum Wage

[FLVOL_79]

Life not being fair is when one person is born blind and the other one has 20/20. Rigging the labor force simply because you have the money power is not an example of "life" being unfair it is example of cheating a person out of money That's why laws are needed to balance the playing field i.e. the minimum wage laws.

What in the f###ing f###. Rigged labor force? Explain that one to me please.

Does the rigged labor force cause Jimmy Ray to not graduate high school, commit crime, then only get a job as a car wash attendent? Or was that his own fault?

 

[apevol]

Jimmy ray makes more selling cocaine to Dink in an hour than you do in a week

 

[apevol]

He just likes seeing them girls at the carwash

 

[volfanhill]

Growing up my teachers and parents often would state that all work is honorable. "An honest days work for an honest days pay". There are now a lot of people putting in an honest days work but getting short changed on the honest pay. How honorable can one feel working full time yet needing subsistence to feed and clothe the family? If Wally and McD were on the brink of collapse perhaps one could buy into their argument. But they're not on the brink and are actually quite financially healthy. They are fighting minimum wage only out of greed . Sure, I agree they have the right to do it. But should they?

I don't agree that it would hurt startups and small businesses. IMO, and it is only an opinion, having millions of workers making a living wage would be a benefit to those small businesses .

Publicly traded companies don't exist to barely make money. Their job is to create wealth for their shareholders. That's it.

 

[Vol8188]

The most absurd part is when he tries to act like increasing the minimum wage will make things so much better because people will have more capital to spend.

If that's the case, why stop at 15? Let's make it 1 million an hour. Then our economy would be amazing right? All these people with all this money to spend!

The real reason we should oppose this is because government should not interfere with a contract between two people, such as employement. But if he would agree to end all forms of welfare, I would get on board with increasing minimum wage, only for the sake of ending the welfare state.

 

[Vol8188]

Life not being fair is when one person is born blind and the other one has 20/20. Rigging the labor force simply because you have the money power is not an example of "life" being unfair it is example of cheating a person out of money That's why laws are needed to balance the playing field i.e. the minimum wage laws.

Who is being cheated and how?

 

[MT LeConte]

Publicly traded companies don't exist to barely make money. Their job is to create wealth for their shareholders. That's it.

No argument there. We are a capitalist country. But if the people who perform the labor that helps create that wealth continue to be left out of the equation the torches and pitchforks will eventually come out. Have you noticed how passionate Bernie's supporters are? Democratic socialism isn't going away anytime soon.

 

[Vol8188]

Government involvement isn't the answer to income inequality. It's the problem.

Minimum wage laws, bonding, occupational licensing, these all barriers that prevent the poor and middle class from competing.

Big corporations want minimum wage laws, because it's not hurting them. It's hurting the small business and eliminating their competition

 

[MT LeConte]

What in the f###ing f###. Rigged labor force? Explain that one to me please.

Does the rigged labor force cause Jimmy Ray to not graduate high school, commit crime, then only get a job as a car wash attendent? Or was that his own fault?

What is rigged labor force? Where have you been for the last 20+ years? This link will explain it better than I can. It comes from a Liberal perspective. If you really want the answer read it. If not quit asking questions.


The Agenda to Raise America’s Pay | Economic Policy Institute




.

 

[MT LeConte]

Government involvement isn't the answer to income inequality. It's the problem.

Minimum wage laws, bonding, occupational licensing, these all barriers that prevent the poor and middle class from competing.

Big corporations want minimum wage laws, because it's not hurting them. It's hurting the small business and eliminating their competition

If government involvement isn't part of the answer why then do Republican administrations target labor unions? Or birth control clinics for that matter? (but that's another story)

 

[Vol8188]

If government involvement isn't part of the answer why then do Republican administrations target labor unions? Or birth control clinics for that matter? (but that's another story)

Are you saying republicans can't be wrong too? I don't understand your argument and how it relates. Republicans don't want to pay for birth control or abortions. Wtf does any of this have to do with anything?

 

[MT LeConte]

Are you saying republicans can't be wrong too? I don't understand your argument and how it relates. Republicans don't want to pay for birth control or abortions. Wtf does any of this have to do with anything?

Really? You can't see how Republicans, minimum wage laws and labor unions aren't part of the same issue? I did say abortion clinics are a different issue.

There are some civics courses available at a Community College near you.

 

[Vol8188]

Really? You can't see how Republicans, minimum wage laws and labor unions aren't part of the same issue? I did say abortion clinics are a different issue.

There are some civics courses available at a Community College near you.

All you did was ***** about republicans not liking labor unions, without making any points regarding the things I said. It's like we aren't even having the same conversation

 

[Vol8188]

If government involvement isn't part of the answer why then do Republican administrations target labor unions? Or birth control clinics for that matter? (but that's another story)

Are you arguing that labor unions are governments?

 

[McDad]

I have employed unskilled people. Currently, i advise my clients on hiring and firing unskilled labor. The wage paid represents the largest portion of employment expense to a business but not all the expense. Training, payroll withholding matching, errors made, unemployment insurance, benefits (pto, fmla, etc) add up. $15 an hour could equate to $18 or higher depending on the business.
I have clients where minimum wage is the federal minimum. We cannot hire anyone at that rate because the employment market is starting unskilled at $13 in their area. My clients have to match that regardless of where the federal minimum is set. Good employees in these markets make much more than minimum with raises and typically can get all the overtime they can handle. The clients in these markets are the first to adopt technology, farm out work to subcontractors, and actively looking for internships from local schools. They do this do avoid hiring as much as possible because of the expense.
As wages rise, employers actively seek ways to mitigate the need for additional labor.

 

[FLVOL_79]

What is rigged labor force? Where have you been for the last 20+ years? This link will explain it better than I can. It comes from a Liberal perspective. If you really want the answer read it. If not quit asking questions.


The Agenda to Raise America’s Pay | Economic Policy Institute




.

Making money.

 

[MT LeConte]

I have employed unskilled people. Currently, i advise my clients on hiring and firing unskilled labor. The wage paid represents the largest portion of employment expense to a business but not all the expense. Training, payroll withholding matching, errors made, unemployment insurance, benefits (pto, fmla, etc) add up. $15 an hour could equate to $18 or higher depending on the business.
I have clients where minimum wage is the federal minimum. We cannot hire anyone at that rate because the employment market is starting unskilled at $13 in their area. My clients have to match that regardless of where the federal minimum is set. Good employees in these markets make much more than minimum with raises and typically can get all the overtime they can handle. The clients in these markets are the first to adopt technology, farm out work to subcontractors, and actively looking for internships from local schools. They do this do avoid hiring as much as possible because of the expense.
As wages rise, employers actively seek ways to mitigate the need for additional labor.

If the employment market in your client's area is starting unskilled laborers at $13 does that mean McD and Wally are also paying that rate in that area? Wally starts a sales associate at $9.47 and overnight stocker at 10.05 in most markets.

Walmart pay scale as of May 31 if anyone's interested:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Walmart-Hourly-Pay-E715.htm


Edit: Sorry, that's average pay. Starting pay is much lower.

 

[McDad]

If the employment market in your client's area is starting unskilled laborers at $13 does that mean McD and Wally are also paying that rate in that area? Wally starts a sales associate at $9.47 and overnight stocker at 10.05 in most markets.

Walmart pay scale as of May 31 if anyone's interested:

https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Walmart-Hourly-Pay-E715.htm


Edit: Sorry, that's average pay. Starting pay is much lower.

Correct. For example, my client in Centennial, Colorado is competing with entry level fast food and retail for labor.

 

[Vol8188]

If government involvement isn't part of the answer why then do Republican administrations target labor unions? Or birth control clinics for that matter? (but that's another story)

You've still not even attempted to explain what you're trying to say here

 

[hog88]

If you're a medical doctor working in the ER....sure.

Don't have to be a doctor.

 

[ruger1234]

One of the biggest problems low skilled workers face is competing with illegal migrants. If a person has a choice of working in a climate controlled environment or on a hot roof for equal pay, they'll probably choose climate controlled.

If not for the cheap illegal labor, building contractors would be forced to pay fair market wages decided by supply/demand economics.

 

[IPleadInsanity]

First thing I hear is, "If I care about this country..." then I have to take the speakers' position on thus and such. So then, conversely, if I don't take his position, I don't care about my country?!

Logical falacy in his opening sentence. Screw dat.

Then I hear Bill M. say, "If McDonald's could do mechanical servers they already would have".

The famous Automat restaurants of last century attest to the fact it can be done. Modern tech only makes it much more feasable. Sure fast food can be ordered and delivered automatically.

Its a typical answer from liberal media. If they could have they would have, that part is true, but they couldn't. Its just not worth the investment with plenty of unskilled labor around at minimum wage. Now bump those wages up to $15 dollars and its a whole new ballgame, of course they could and would. Its hard to believe people can't understand why unskilled labor makes low wages. Is sweeping the floor at a fast food joint really worth $15 hour? You start paying them $15 and hour and they will become content with being unskilled.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Growing up my teachers and parents often would state that all work is honorable. "An honest days work for an honest days pay". There are now a lot of people putting in an honest days work but getting short changed on the honest pay. How honorable can one feel working full time yet needing subsistence to feed and clothe the family? If Wally and McD were on the brink of collapse perhaps one could buy into their argument. But they're not on the brink and are actually quite financially healthy. They are fighting minimum wage only out of greed . Sure, I agree they have the right to do it. But should they?

I don't agree that it would hurt startups and small businesses. IMO, and it is only an opinion, having millions of workers making a living wage would be a benefit to those small businesses .

What type of profession are you/were you involved in? Have you ever started or purchased a business and been financially responsible for it's well being?

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Consolidation and maturing markets have been great fodder for liberals to complain. XYZ makes BILLIONS and yet they cannot pay their workers $D an hour. Everyone conveniently ignores net income and simply focuses on revenues. When you get into the percentages you see MCD and WMT living in the low single digits. So for every dollar pulled in they keep a nickel. Maybe. If you took Walmarts CEO pay to zero and gave it to front line employees that would give every worker an extra dollar a month. Not an hour. Not a paycheck. A month. Take the whole C suite to zero. You're talking maybe $3 a month. Wow well that will fix it. There's no point listening to these windbags pontificate about how to run a business. They know zero. What does bill maher know? You think he gets paid what his cameraman does? Think when times get tough and subscriptions fall off he takes a cut or they can some lowly staff?

 

[MT LeConte]

What type of profession are you/were you involved in? Have you ever started or purchased a business and been financially responsible for it's well being?

No. I'm a disabled veteran. I have an only brother who owns a small dry cleaning business with six take in store fronts and the cleaning operation. I have done and occasionally still do some general office work for him. He pays his employees better than average and does ok but he's not wealthy.

I usually work for bourbon and beer.

Your turn.



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