The Liberal Argument for a Higher Minimum Wage

#77
#77
lawgator1 said:
Part of the problem is that we, as older folks perhaps, are accustomed to thinking about these jobs as something you do in high school, or summers off from school, to make money for a car, a scooter, a vacation.

Things have changed. For some, working fast food is end of the line. They do it to pay rent, clothe a child, pay for medications.
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You state things have changed followed by a description of how it has always been.
What's changed?
 
#78
#78
Vol8188 said:
Idk how you're not understanding this. It's not "depressing wages". It's the complete opposite. It's allowing employees and employers to actually negotiate their own contracts at whatever price the market sets. It's the complete opposite of what is allowed with the legal work force.
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"Completely opposite"

Now you're learning. You can't have separate rules and expect fair competition. It depresses unskilled labor because most illegals are unskilled. If we flooded the market with illegal medical doctors and engineers the result would be the same.
 
#79
#79
ruger1234 said:
"Completely opposite"

Now you're learning. You can't have separate rules and expect fair competition. It depresses unskilled labor because most illegals are unskilled. If we flooded the market with illegal medical doctors and engineers the result would be the same.
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The problem is neither scenario is illegals. It's artificially inflated wages through occupational licensing and minimum wage that are prohibiting competition. The wages aren't deflated, they're determined by the market.

The legal workforce is artificially inflated by the government
 
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#80
#80
Vol8188 said:
The problem is neither scenario is illegals. It's artificially inflated wages through occupational licensing and minimum wage that are prohibiting completion. The wages aren't deflated, they're determined by the market.

The legal workforce is artificially inflated by the government
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Frame it however you like. When a roofer makes at best 10-20% more than a cashier at Walmart something is out of kilter.
 
#84
#84
Orangedogsrule said:
Do the charts have greater or lesser impact if adjusted for the impact of significant forcing variables such as for population increase, illegal immigration, etc.?
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The biggest variable for the recent change is states pushing them off unemployment and into disability....from the NPR story

A person on welfare costs a state money. That same resident on disability doesn't cost the state a cent, because the federal government covers the entire bill for people on disability. So states can save money by shifting people from welfare to disability. And the Public Consulting Group is glad to help.

PCG is a private company that states pay to comb their welfare rolls and move as many people as possible onto disability. "What we're offering is to work to identify those folks who have the highest likelihood of meeting disability criteria," Pat Coakley, who runs PCG's Social Security Advocacy Management team, told me.

The company has an office in eastern Washington state that's basically a call center, full of headsetted women in cubicles who make calls all day long to potentially disabled Americans, trying to help them discover and document their disabilities:

"The high blood pressure, how long have you been taking medications for that?" one PCG employee asked over the phone the day I visited the company. "Can you think of anything else that's been bothering you and disabling you and preventing you from working?"

The PCG agents help the potentially disabled fill out the Social Security disability application over the phone. And by help, I mean the agents actually do the filling out. When the potentially disabled don't have the right medical documentation to prove a disability, the agents at PCG help them get it. They call doctors' offices; they get records faxed. If the right medical records do not exist, PCG sets up doctors' appointments and calls applicants the day before to remind them of those appointments.

PCG also works very, very hard to make the people who work at the Social Security happy. Whenever the company wins a new contract, Coakley will personally introduce himself at the local Social Security Administration office, and see how he can make things as easy as possible for the administrators there.

"We go through even to the point, frankly, of do you like things to be stapled or paper-clipped?" he told me. "Paper clips wins out a lot of times because they need to make photocopies and they don't want to be taking staples out."

There's a reason PCG goes to all this trouble. The company gets paid by the state every time it moves someone off of welfare and onto disability. In recent contract negotiations with Missouri, PCG asked for $2,300 per person. For Missouri, that's a deal -- every time someone goes on disability, it means Missouri no longer has to send them cash payments every month. For the nation as a whole, it means one more person added to the disability rolls.
 
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#90
#90
ruger1234 said:
"Completely opposite"

Now you're learning. You can't have separate rules and expect fair competition. It depresses unskilled labor because most illegals are unskilled. If we flooded the market with illegal medical doctors and engineers the result would be the same.
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Please, let's do it. Everything would be cheaper
 
#93
#93
Vol8188 said:
You're issue is still government interference in the market. Artificially inflated wages by the government. It has nothing to do with illegals.
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Return from your libertarian utopia, it doesn't exist, yet. We have to play by the rules our government imposes on us.
 
#98
#98
Vol8188 said:
So accepting of tyranny
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Lol, it's called reality. I vote for the most Liberty minded candidates, speak about the advantages of liberty to friends and colleagues.

Maybe we need the tree of liberty refreshed. Are you willing to lead the charge?
 
#100
#100
ruger1234 said:
Lol, it's called reality. I vote for the most Liberty minded candidates, speak about the advantages of liberty to friends and colleagues.

Maybe we need the tree of liberty refreshed. Are you willing to lead the charge?
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Under the right circumstances.
 
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