The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

[Velo Vol]

This will lead to a Trump indictment, you heard it here.

Link?

OP is complete speculation. And by the way, legal proceedings are in south Florida, not DC.

 

[hog88]

So, preventing a foreign agent, actively undermining the country from running again is actually a bad thing? Who knew? Screech on about how taking the democracy part out of our government is somehow a good thing all you want.

Most likely Trump beats the charges and will be back in it in the next election, or maybe his designated successor. The fascist thesis he represents going against the out of touch antithesis of Biden will clear the way for the synthesis, who I think will be Corker.

We got a live one!

 

[Orangeslice13]

Nothing


Is


going


to



Happen

 

[Jxn Vol]

Now I don’t believe there is anyone so despicable that the American voters won’t elect. Child molester? Sure. Mass murderer? Why not? As long as he is willing to lie about and trash immigrants, Muslims, pro choice people, the media and everyone else who disagrees with them, so-called Evangelical Christians will lap it all up and passionately support him.

Right now, I don’t know who I find more disgusting, Trump or his supporters.

This forum has become a right-wing conspiracy theory comedy of errors. A place where mentally ill jokers can come for affirmation.

If you don’t live it then leave it. We will throw a going away party after you are gone.

 

[tnmarktx]

 

[Gandalf]

Does Trump lawyers have a copy of the affidavit?

I dont think so. Usually you would get a copy of the warrant but the affidavit is sealed until/unless it is released as part of the indictment. Until there is a criminal charge, they don't release information. Practicing attorneys here are welcome to chime in though. My understanding could be off.

I guess they could "investigate" indefinitely, it's not like it's their money being spent.

Sure they can but I the problem is that congress is likely to flip considerably. There will be hearings where Republicans will basically be putting the DOJ and Garland on trial for this. They HAVE TO have some way to justify it to save their own skin.

They have to know that there was something they could use as a technical violation to make their case enough so that it provides cover for a political attack. Even if it's 15 boxes taken and there were 3 papers that were still marked confidential and one top secret that related to his schedule 3 years ago. Never mind that no other President would EVER be indicted under this or whether they can get a conviction, Its enough of a fig leaf to go on to justify the raid (we had reason to believe was there...and we found....and we indicted...just doing the daily job of the DOJ mam....).

They are hoping it is enough to get Trump out of the running. It may work - or, it could lead to disastrous consequences that were not foreseen.

 

[Caculator]

Trump is a master at owning the downside, indictment hands him the news cycle

 

[tnmarktx]

I dont think so. Usually you would get a copy of the warrant but the affidavit is sealed until/unless it is released as part of the indictment. Until there is a criminal charge, they don't release information. Practicing attorneys here are welcome to chime in though. My understanding could be off.



Sure they can but I the problem is that congress is likely to flip considerably. There will be hearings where Republicans will basically be putting the DOJ and Garland on trial for this. They HAVE TO have some way to justify it to save their own skin.

They have to know that there was something they could use as a technical violation to make their case enough so that it provides cover for a political attack. Even if it's 15 boxes taken and there were 3 papers that were still marked confidential and one top secret that related to his schedule 3 years ago. Never mind that no other President would EVER be indicted under this or whether they can get a conviction, Its enough of a fig leaf to go on to justify the raid (we had reason to believe was there...and we found....and we indicted...just doing the daily job of the DOJ mam....).

They are hoping it is enough to get Trump out of the running. It may work - or, it could lead to disastrous consequences that were not foreseen.

They were most likely looking for something for the 1/6 committee to use against Trump. They may very well indict him for something. It's all to keep him from running again. Hopefully, the consequences will be, the overwhelming outrage by the public that will lead to the eventual disbandment of the FBI.

 

[n_huffhines]

Cool story, bro. In the meantime, you can continue to vote for people like AOC, Omar, Nadler, Schiff and so on. People who have idolized Che, Alinsky, and Robert Ayers.

If we are DQ'ing politicians because of who they admire, then nobody in DC is justifiable. Every one of them likes a dictator. Most of us do, too.

 

[hog88]

I dont think so. Usually you would get a copy of the warrant but the affidavit is sealed until/unless it is released as part of the indictment. Until there is a criminal charge, they don't release information. Practicing attorneys here are welcome to chime in though. My understanding could be off.



Sure they can but I the problem is that congress is likely to flip considerably. There will be hearings where Republicans will basically be putting the DOJ and Garland on trial for this. They HAVE TO have some way to justify it to save their own skin.

They have to know that there was something they could use as a technical violation to make their case enough so that it provides cover for a political attack. Even if it's 15 boxes taken and there were 3 papers that were still marked confidential and one top secret that related to his schedule 3 years ago. Never mind that no other President would EVER be indicted under this or whether they can get a conviction, Its enough of a fig leaf to go on to justify the raid (we had reason to believe was there...and we found....and we indicted...just doing the daily job of the DOJ mam....).

They are hoping it is enough to get Trump out of the running. It may work - or, it could lead to disastrous consequences that were not foreseen.

The DOJ knows the Senate will not flip so there is no fear of impeachment. As we saw with Holder, if the DOJ doesn't pursue a contempt of congress referral from the house nothing happens. Garland isn't going to pursue any contempt referrals on himself or FBI officials doing his bidding. So in short the DOJ/FBI has nothing to defend.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

I doubt that he is indicted. But to the rest of your post I'm in agreement, only approved candidates that will carry the status quo forward will be allowed in the oval office from here on out.

Look no further than Cuomo. He was a party darling until he started sniffing around 2024, then out came the knives.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Nothing


Is


going


to



Happen

When will people figure out politics is closer to wrestling than anything else? You need the heels, you need the outrage, it keeps the coffers full. We attack each other in front of the cameras and drink a beer together backstage. If either side wins all the time people stop giving money. Both sides argue that the other side being in control will be the end of our country. That seems like it can't be true but we can't dare to find out.

 

[landscapingvol]

Now I don’t believe there is anyone so despicable that the American voters won’t elect. Child molester? Sure. Mass murderer? Why not? As long as he is willing to lie about and trash immigrants, Muslims, pro choice people, the media and everyone else who disagrees with them, so-called Evangelical Christians will lap it all up and passionately support him.

Right now, I don’t know who I find more disgusting, Trump or his supporters.

This forum has become a right-wing conspiracy theory comedy of errors. A place where mentally ill jokers can come for affirmation.

Your post reeks of teenage girl

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Now I don’t believe there is anyone so despicable that the American voters won’t elect. Child molester? Sure. Mass murderer? Why not? As long as he is willing to lie about and trash immigrants, Muslims, pro choice people, the media and everyone else who disagrees with them, so-called Evangelical Christians will lap it all up and passionately support him.

Right now, I don’t know who I find more disgusting, Trump or his supporters.

This forum has become a right-wing conspiracy theory comedy of errors. A place where mentally ill jokers can come for affirmation.

What are you do scared of? We are closer to war under Puddinhead than we ever were under trump. And then there's the economy...

 

[lawgator1]

Based on what I am seeing - prepare for a Trump indictment. They have gone so far now, they HAVE to bring one. I'm sure they are going to find something in that pile of docs hastily packed by GSA and shipped to Trump that they will claim is "still classified". And they know it because its been sitting there for 18 months and they have been there on previous visits to catalogue it. I can see on Tucker and others that they are maneuvering to get ahead of it. That likely means their inside sources are telling them what to expect.

This will lead to a Trump indictment, you heard it here. There is almost no other possible path for the Biden admin and the alphabet agencies. That will almost assuredly lead to a conviction by a Democrat Judge in a DC court and almost as likely to be overturned when it reaches this Supreme Court. This has nothing to do with right or wrong, and hardly even the law really, since almost anyone understands this would not even be an issue except that Trump may be running again and could very well win. So let us put away pretenses of why we each believe what should or should not happen but rather to address these actions with the understanding that is a pure amoral grab for power. All the rest are but pasties on the trollop to fool the simple that all is as it should be.

Meanwhile, 2 things will be happening:
1) very hard for Trump to run since theoretically conviction from this offense is a bar to holding federal office (or that will be the argument). His strongest supporters will grow even more enraged but a good number will have some hesitation because what happens if Trump is the candidate but then legally is barred from holding office?
2) this will suck all political air from anyone else who even is thinking of running as news stories will breathlessly give us updates every day. That's on the Republican side at least. Dems will line up to see which progressive poodle can condemn Trump the most virulently.

Perhaps worse still - there is virtually no chance that the alphabets can allow a Republican who is not a corporatist member of the swamp to be elected. If Trump is still running or if Trump is disqualified and DeSantis is the nominee, election cheating will be on a scale even previously unknown and actively assisted by agency leadership (not rank and file) and any assigned operatives. They simply cannot allow them to win because after indicting Trump, there will be enormous pressure on the next GOP president to liquidate the FBI as an agency and reform many of the others. Provided there is a GOP congress, it is likely the votes and appetite will be there for some major agency reform. Even without it, Trump's "Schedule F" initiative makes it possible to basically fire every political appointee and he would be vengeful and ruthless in doing so if elected. DeSantis is likely to be more surgical but use the same mechanism to eliminate every federal employee that he sees as a possible threat to his administration or policy.

This means that once the indictment, I am predicting here, is pushed forward, we will have entered a period where we essentially have a junta run by the federal leo/intelligence agencies (though some would claim we were well on the path in 2020, with the first attempt in 2016). The removal of Trump at any cost is a blatant political power grab. They cannot then let go of it to risk someone may hold them responsible for their actions. The Democratic nominee would simply be the window dressing, though they would have wide latitude on most policy issues. Consider the model long held by places like Pakistan, where there are contentious elections but the real arbiter of power is the Army.

This is a path to a civil uprising once people understand that there can be no real election anymore (which may take more than a single cycle since the media will be selling the election results hard). When the next Jan 6 happens, however, the 1M+ protestors may come fully armed to DC. What will happen then? Meanwhile, our enemies, both China and Russia will use the social media to amplify our dissent. The very social fabric ripped apart.

This is not what I want to happen but once the die is cast, each subsequent step is a logical conclusion for each side to make in their own self interest. It is why we should not have gotten here.

Let us see if I am right about the indictment. For those of you progressive Vols (or anyone else) who claims I am fancifully imaging unreasonable scenarios rather than predicting entrance to the road to hell for our democracy and our country - please be so kind as to share your own expectation of events following if Trump is indeed indicted? and if you expect that will happen?

Indeed, please tell me I am wrong - a hopeful word would be good this morning.

Being dismissive of the situation is not helpful and is also not realistic.

 

[evillawyer]

Based on what I am seeing - prepare for a Trump indictment. They have gone so far now, they HAVE to bring one. I'm sure they are going to find something in that pile of docs hastily packed by GSA and shipped to Trump that they will claim is "still classified". And they know it because its been sitting there for 18 months and they have been there on previous visits to catalogue it. I can see on Tucker and others that they are maneuvering to get ahead of it. That likely means their inside sources are telling them what to expect.

This will lead to a Trump indictment, you heard it here. There is almost no other possible path for the Biden admin and the alphabet agencies. That will almost assuredly lead to a conviction by a Democrat Judge in a DC court and almost as likely to be overturned when it reaches this Supreme Court. This has nothing to do with right or wrong, and hardly even the law really, since almost anyone understands this would not even be an issue except that Trump may be running again and could very well win. So let us put away pretenses of why we each believe what should or should not happen but rather to address these actions with the understanding that is a pure amoral grab for power. All the rest are but pasties on the trollop to fool the simple that all is as it should be.

Meanwhile, 2 things will be happening:
1) very hard for Trump to run since theoretically conviction from this offense is a bar to holding federal office (or that will be the argument). His strongest supporters will grow even more enraged but a good number will have some hesitation because what happens if Trump is the candidate but then legally is barred from holding office?
2) this will suck all political air from anyone else who even is thinking of running as news stories will breathlessly give us updates every day. That's on the Republican side at least. Dems will line up to see which progressive poodle can condemn Trump the most virulently.

Perhaps worse still - there is virtually no chance that the alphabets can allow a Republican who is not a corporatist member of the swamp to be elected. If Trump is still running or if Trump is disqualified and DeSantis is the nominee, election cheating will be on a scale even previously unknown and actively assisted by agency leadership (not rank and file) and any assigned operatives. They simply cannot allow them to win because after indicting Trump, there will be enormous pressure on the next GOP president to liquidate the FBI as an agency and reform many of the others. Provided there is a GOP congress, it is likely the votes and appetite will be there for some major agency reform. Even without it, Trump's "Schedule F" initiative makes it possible to basically fire every political appointee and he would be vengeful and ruthless in doing so if elected. DeSantis is likely to be more surgical but use the same mechanism to eliminate every federal employee that he sees as a possible threat to his administration or policy.

This means that once the indictment, I am predicting here, is pushed forward, we will have entered a period where we essentially have a junta run by the federal leo/intelligence agencies (though some would claim we were well on the path in 2020, with the first attempt in 2016). The removal of Trump at any cost is a blatant political power grab. They cannot then let go of it to risk someone may hold them responsible for their actions. The Democratic nominee would simply be the window dressing, though they would have wide latitude on most policy issues. Consider the model long held by places like Pakistan, where there are contentious elections but the real arbiter of power is the Army.

This is a path to a civil uprising once people understand that there can be no real election anymore (which may take more than a single cycle since the media will be selling the election results hard). When the next Jan 6 happens, however, the 1M+ protestors may come fully armed to DC. What will happen then? Meanwhile, our enemies, both China and Russia will use the social media to amplify our dissent. The very social fabric ripped apart.

This is not what I want to happen but once the die is cast, each subsequent step is a logical conclusion for each side to make in their own self interest. It is why we should not have gotten here.

Let us see if I am right about the indictment. For those of you progressive Vols (or anyone else) who claims I am fancifully imaging unreasonable scenarios rather than predicting entrance to the road to hell for our democracy and our country - please be so kind as to share your own expectation of events following if Trump is indeed indicted? and if you expect that will happen?

Indeed, please tell me I am wrong - a hopeful word would be good this morning.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Solid post, I don't believe he will be indicted but I do believe the left will try to play the long game again to hold off any momentum they can stop. The American people are growing tired of "yet another" in regards to trying a different way to stop Trump. Best case for them, let time do away with Trump if were to run and win and revisit in 2028.

All they need is 18 months.

 

[Sea Ray]

Republicans need to move beyond Trump. Go for someone like DeSantis who'll give you the Trump policies without the baggage. Plus Trump will be nearly 80 by the time 2025 rolls around. Let the Dems concentrate their efforts on him and then sneak up on 'em with another candidate that they underestimated

 

[Majors]

All they need is 18 months.

And then some because nothing has been done.

 

[Zues1]

Absolutely he can run - unless convicted. But the question will be if the GOP will fully back him if he may be technically disqualified at a late hour after he wins the GOP nomination.

This is my belief. This thing will drag on late into the run for reelection. He'll then be indicted leaving little to no leverage for another candidate to grab the baton and win the race.
They have him by the short hairs. If he truly wants to be a positive for the country he should announce he's not running and put his support /supporters behind a new candidate.
He could continue to be the face and force of the GOP. Campaigning for the new nominate come hell or high water.
I don't believe his ego will allow him to step aside but he has shown some cooling down.
The midtems will answer a lot of questions about voting results. We should see a red wave. I'm skeptical that will happen.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Let the tears flow

 

[ButchPlz]

The irony of his post was astonishing

Said poster has proven that he's pants-on-head word I can't say repeatedly, is it really that astonishing?

 

[ButchPlz]

Let the tears flow

>posted by the world's bestest butthurt poster

 

[Gandalf]

They were most likely looking for something for the 1/6 committee to use against Trump. They may very well indict him for something. It's all to keep him from running again. Hopefully, the consequences will be, the overwhelming outrage by the public that will lead to the eventual disbandment of the FBI.

They would not have risked it unless they knew they had something already. Can be relatively minor that they will try to paint as major but has to be SOMETHING. They are HOPING to collect something else, either the private attorney stuff or otherwise that they can use to make a greater case than they have, which right now is not much or they wouldnt be going with this.

The DOJ knows the Senate will not flip so there is no fear of impeachment. As we saw with Holder, if the DOJ doesn't pursue a contempt of congress referral from the house nothing happens. Garland isn't going to pursue any contempt referrals on himself or FBI officials doing his bidding. So in short the DOJ/FBI has nothing to defend.

There is fear in the DOJ, not terror. Yes, they are not going to indict themselves but it messes up their cushy path if a GOP congress finds things in black and white. They know the machine will toss them aside if needed. And if a committee finds actionable things, it will be expected for the next Republican President's DOJ, Trump or otherwise to look into it and bring charges if warranted.

So what that means is, the FBI/DOJ (leadership) basically now has a DIRECT PERSONAL REASON to stop Trump or any reform minded Republican candidate at pretty much all costs. I doubt that is where they intended to be but my fear is that this will continue to escalate. How can the GOP take office and not respond forcefully to this? And then libs would howl that it is politically motivated, etc. There will be no winners down this road, only the loss of freedom for everyone at the gain of a totalitarian state.

Being dismissive of the situation is not helpful and is also not realistic.

Uh, what you just did is the very definition of being dismissive without providing anything helpful or realistic. Next time perhaps wait till you have time for a proper response. I am hoping for better from you.

This is my belief. This thing will drag on late into the run for reelection. He'll then be indicted leaving little to no leverage for another candidate to grab the baton and win the race.
They have him by the short hairs. If he truly wants to be a positive for the country he should announce he's not running and put his support /supporters behind a new candidate.
He could continue to be the face and force of the GOP. Campaigning for the new nominate come hell or high water.
I don't believe his ego will allow him to step aside but he has shown some cooling down.
The midtems will answer a lot of questions about voting results. We should see a red wave. I'm skeptical that will happen.

I think that is exactly their plan. I do also think it will be hard for Trump's ego to step aside and in fact, even if he was planning to before, the more he is pushed, the more likely he may run out of personal pique. Sure it would be better IMO to back DeSantis and then bask in the credit of being Kingmaker - but I dont know if Trump can do that. It also would spoil his "dynasty" for his kids if he looks like he is running away in any way. And you can be sure FBI/DOJ will come after DeSantis tooth and nail as well.

No stopping the red wave. Its only about how high it is and who the incoming tide will wash away. Current methods of cheating do not allow them to block it from happening in the house. They can slow it in the Senate and some statewide races (GA and PA Im looking at you) by cheating but its much harder to do without mail in ballots or bundling at sufficient scale to overcome a large number. Find 20-30k ballots in a state? sure, easy. 130k? much harder without mail ins but still possible. 250k? even if I can make them, how do I get them back in the system in those numbers unless they never leave the BOE and that takes a lot of work. I am not sure I could do it even in the Detroit, Atlanta and Philly systems. With the 2020 rules in place though, yes.

 

[lawgator1]

The Trump cult has adopted this joint, breezy "this will be nothing" kind of attitude when just a week ago it was the greatest affront to the Republic since, well, since the Republic.

But now they realize the flip side of that equation. For the FBI and DOJ to have taken such an extraordinary step there must have been a compelling criminal investigatory reason. And now the DOJ is warning that the release of the warrant application would risk exposure of highly classified material and also hamper the criminal investigation.

The Trump cult defense is patently obvious: 1) Anything they say is a lie and a witch hunt, even if its true and points to criminal activity; 2) demand the release of the affidavit, but hedge that its no big deal, no matter what it shows; and last resort 3) if in fact its a major scandal involving clearly criminal conduct by Trump, reserve the right to claim the evidence was planted or manufactured.

So no matter how bad it might be, you have some defense, no matter how pathetically lame it might be.

And all in defense of a guy who was a Democrat until it suited him to switch, is clearly a con artist, sure as heck isn't much of a conservative, lives a lifestyle at odds with the cultural values of your party, and by all accounts laughs behind your back at how gullible you all are.