The Masters Tournament

[govols/cc]

If you say so. Actions define character and integrity. If you feel that cheating on one's wife repeatedly is the picture of character and integrity, then by all means...

My point was that removing himself from the tournament and saying:

"You know, the rules are the rules. I made a mistake and don't feel as though I can continue competing in the Masters this weekend in good conscience. I have too much respect for the game, the Masters, and my fellow professionals."

That would have gone a long way for someone who has exhibited morality/character issues so publicly.

A 14 year old kid from China said it perfectly yesterday. "The rules are the rules."

He broke one. He broke another by signing an incorrect score card. (Neither rule says anything about ignorance of the rule.) A third one was bent to the point of breaking to keep a cash cow on TV over the weekend.

I don't dislike TW. With that said, I hope he misses every putt for the rest of the weekend.

When did he sign an incorrect scorecard?

 

[Orange_Crush]

It is my belief that the whole DQ for incorrect scorecard rule's intent was to protect against intentional cheaters which was not Tigers intent. If I was another player I would want him in the field. Golf and the world in general IMO is too full of sanctimonious pricks.... I am not saying you are one of them....I wonder how many players over the years have accidentally signed incorrect scorecards, that maybe realized much later what they had done. I and you both know it has happened in the past before wall to wall TV coverage.

I'm not trying to be a smart***. But your belief is wrong. In the history of televised golf, too many winners have been DQed for that to be true-- winners that obviously were not knowingly cheating. Heck, how many were DQed because their competitor (the ones who actually keep their score), just wrote in the wrong score on a hole?

The rule is the rule. That's what makes golf golf.

In football, you curse refs. In baseball, you kick sand on umps. Golf is a gentleman's game. You call it on yourself for your own integrity and the integrity of the game.

TW missed it this time.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

He was told he was good to go before he signed anything. What the hell did he do wrong? Later they changed their mind & assessed a 2 shot penalty.

He dropped the ball incorrectly. That is a 2 stroke penalty. I wish the Majors at least would have walking officials with each group to protect the players from stupid brainfarts like this. Nobody in their right mind wants to see the best players getting assessed penalties that change the outcome of these tournaments. A quick "you can't do that" would stop almost all of them.

 

[Orange_Crush]

When did he sign an incorrect scorecard?

At the end of his round yesterday. He signed for a score without a penalty stroke on it, when a penalty stroke should have been there. The rules of golf do not take into account whether one is ignorant of breaking the rule or not.

I believe you and I are looking at this from differing perspectives. And that's OK.

I view golf as a game of integrity-- i.e. the player calls penalties on themselves in doing what is right.

I can only infer that you are looking at it from the perspective of "I get away with what I can get away with."

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

What I was saying is how many guys do you think have screwed up in the past, only to realize it much later after the tournaments were over? have never heard of anybody giving their trophy or winners check back.

 

[vol_in_ar]

should be an interesting post round interview

 

[govols/cc]

I'm not trying to be a smart***. But your belief is wrong. In the history of televised golf, too many winners have been DQed for that to be true-- winners that obviously were not knowingly cheating. Heck, how many were DQed because their competitor (the ones who actually keep their score), just wrote in the wrong score on a hole?

The rule is the rule. That's what makes golf golf.

In football, you curse refs. In baseball, you kick sand on umps. Golf is a gentleman's game. You call it on yourself for your own integrity and the integrity of the game.

TW missed it this time.

Some of the stupid rules in golf has changed, this is one. Golf is a game & that's it. Nothing more to it although some act like it is. There was nobody calling in 20 years ago to some hotline to rat on golfers. It's up to each player to play within the rules & there's officials & playing partners to protect the field & insure you do. Nobody had an issue with it until well after the fact & he was penalized based on the rules.

 

[Pin High]

..

 

[govols/cc]

At the end of his round yesterday. He signed for a score without a penalty stroke on it, when a penalty stroke should have been there. The rules of golf do not take into account whether one is ignorant of breaking the rule or not.

I believe you and I are looking at this from differing perspectives. And that's OK.

I view golf as a game of integrity-- i.e. the player calls penalties on themselves in doing what is right.

I can only infer that you are looking at it from the perspective of "I get away with what I can get away with."

So if officials say you're good & sign a card you're still wrong? Lol ok.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

At the end of his round yesterday. He signed for a score without a penalty stroke on it, when a penalty stroke should have been there. The rules of golf do not take into account whether one is ignorant of breaking the rule or not.

I believe you and I are looking at this from differing perspectives. And that's OK.

I view golf as a game of integrity-- i.e. the player calls penalties on themselves in doing what is right.

I can only infer that you are looking at it from the perspective of "I get away with what I can get away with."

I view golf as a game of integrity. I think intent should have a lot more to do with "integrity".

 

[Orange_Crush]

What I was saying is how many guys do you think have screwed up in the past, only to realize it much later after the tournaments were over? have never heard of anybody giving their trophy or winners check back.

I can't speak to that.

TW had the opportunity to nip that in the bud before the tournament is over. He didn't.

The game is played in the spirit of doing what is right no matter the cost, not doing what one can get away with. This is a very public exhibition of "getting away with it" that, frankly, TW's reputation doesn't need.

That's my main point. With his proven character issues, he would have been wise to err on the side of caution. It would have done a lot more for his legacy than what's playing out right now.

It's a lot easier for the casual observer to just say, "See there? If you'll cheat on your wife, you'll cheat on the course."

How much better to see a person sacrificially show obvious character and err on the side of doing what is right?

 

[govols/cc]

Rules guys aren't out there to tell a player this. They are there to make sure the rules are followed. Players should know the rules. If not sure, then ask for a ruling

Like it or not guys, Orange Crush is spot on to his rule points.

An official or partner can always step in & let a guy know if he's about to screw up.

 

[Orange_Crush]

So if officials say you're good & sign a card you're still wrong? Lol ok.

Yes. You are. Remember, golf is a game where you call it on yourself.

PS: He let the officials make that decision without all the information. The officials admitted this morning in a presser that they changed their mind about the penalty because of what he said in his presser-- only hearing about it after they made the ruling.

 

[GAVol]

At the end of his round yesterday. He signed for a score without a penalty stroke on it, when a penalty stroke should have been there. The rules of golf do not take into account whether one is ignorant of breaking the rule or not.

I believe you and I are looking at this from differing perspectives. And that's OK.

I view golf as a game of integrity-- i.e. the player calls penalties on themselves in doing what is right.

I can only infer that you are looking at it from the perspective of "I get away with what I can get away with."

I don't think its quite that simple. There's a difference between trying to cheat and using the rules to your advantage.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

This whole argument is retarded. I don't think any posters "integrity" should be belittled because they see this differently. :hi: I also meant that, I wish there were officials to keep things like that from happening. A player should lose because they don't perform as well as their competitors, not because of a stupid technicality.

 

[Pin High]

..

 

[Orange_Crush]

I view golf as a game of integrity. I think intent should have a lot more to do with "integrity".

It's well known in golf that the rules are the rules.

They care little about "intent". You can "intend" not to move a ball, but if you ground your club and it moves... Guess what.

The only intent that matters is whether one intends to honor the game by following the rules and calling them on yourself, even if no one else is there to do it.

That's the wonder of the game.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

You guys know the tournament is still going on right?

 

[Orange_Crush]

This whole argument is retarded. I don't think any posters "integrity" should be belittled because they see this differently. :hi: I also meant that, I wish there were officials to keep things like that from happening. A player should lose because they don't perform as well as their competitors, not because of a stupid technicality.

I haven't belittled anyone's integrity.

I did state that I feel as though we are approaching the situation from differing perspectives. I also stated that that's alright.

 

[govols/cc]

I can't speak to that.

TW had the opportunity to nip that in the bud before the tournament is over. He didn't.

The game is played in the spirit of doing what is right no matter the cost, not doing what one can get away with. This is a very public exhibition of "getting away with it" that, frankly, TW's reputation doesn't need.

That's my main point. With his proven character issues, he would have been wise to err on the side of caution. It would have done a lot more for his legacy than what's playing out right now.

It's a lot easier for the casual observer to just say, "See there? If you'll cheat on your wife, you'll cheat on the course."

How much better to see a person sacrificially show obvious character and err on the side of doing what is right?

Damn why don't every person that hits in a hazard just DQ themselves. Im sure many guys haven't been spot on with their drop or maybe had their arm angled a couple degrees or something.

 

[govols/cc]

No they can not

Yes they can.

 

[govols/cc]

It's well known in golf that the rules are the rules.

They care little about "intent". You can "intend" not to move a ball, but if you ground your club and it moves... Guess what.

The only intent that matters is whether one intends to honor the game by following the rules and calling them on yourself, even if no one else is there to do it.

That's the wonder of the game.

You realize that rule changed too?

 

[Pin High]

..

 

[GAVol]

Yes they can.

I've seen it happen firsthand but he may be there is the whole giving advice thing too.

 

[VOLumeS]

Four!!!! that is all!