The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

#2,902
#2,902
Rickyvol77 said:
His actions led up to the incident as well. Would he have died if he hadn't attacked the son violently and tried to take his gun?
Click to expand...
Whose actions came first? That's where the blocks started to fall into place. By the time we get to Arbery reacting, the chain reaction had already begun with the McMichael's illegal actions.
 
#2,904
#2,904
Bigun said:
The part about they killed him when they found him is false. Apparently the 4 minute video shows them following him and not engaging him. What the defense will point out is that McMichael didn't fire his gun until Arbery ran at him. Will a jury buy that? That is the question. I don't think a jury will buy it to acquit them but I do think it might save them from murder-1
Click to expand...
They didn't kill him?
 
#2,905
#2,905
GoBigOrangeUT said:
You seem to believe that the two guys are guilty but your hang up is the charge being sought. That’s fair. I’m more concerned with the people defending the two guys actions.
Click to expand...
I absolutely believe they are guilty and should do jail time. I'm more concerned that the prosecution is going to give into public pressure and overcharge them and they will get off, much like the Zimmeran/Trayvon case. I do have a problem with false narratives being put out, but that is happening in every case, especially ones with notoriety like this one. If we could all deal in the facts without emotion, which I'm guilty off obviously, it would be better, even if the facts go against what we think/believe happened.

Personally I don't have a problem with older video's of Arbery being arrested showing up. They were going to come out anyway at trail but also in full disclosure we need to know past history on both parties. If something came out damaging against the McMichaels from a few years ago, we need to know that so we can look at their past history. JMO.
 
#2,906
#2,906
Rickyvol77 said:
yes or no question? you believe they would've shot him otherwise?
Click to expand...
Not the question that has to be answered. Did the McMichael's commit aggravated assault by unjustly seeking to detain him while armed? That is the question. If Arbery was killed during the commission of a felony, then the McMichael's are guilty of felony murder.
 
#2,907
#2,907
GoBigOrangeUT said:
Yep. Sure can. That’s where the conversation ends. Everything after that is murder.
Click to expand...

I dont know laws well enough to decide murder or not. Nor do I really care. A young man is dead and 2 families are devastated because of it. I will say I think this is decided as a manslaughter charge.
 
#2,908
#2,908
vollygirl said:
They didn't kill him?
Click to expand...
You said when they found him they killed him. I said that was false, in that they had found him and followed him and didn't kill him until they stopped ahead of him and he came to the truck and confronted McMichael. Your version makes it sound like a movie/dramatization that they decided to go "huntin' for black guys" and pulled up to him with him unaware and shot him, then opened a few beers and celebrated. Let's deal in facts and not emotion.

Arbery was scene in the house looking around, a neighbor hollered across to him and he took off running. McMichaels go out looking for the guy running from the house and find him and follow him (haven't seen the video but according to reports of what the video shows) then somehow got ahead of him, stopped in road to block him, Arbery approaches and confronts McMichael, he is shot and killed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jp1 and Rickyvol77
#2,909
#2,909
Bigun said:
The part about they killed him when they found him is false. Apparently the 4 minute video shows them following him and not engaging him.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt the longer video shows that, since Greg McMichael admitted that they tried to cut him off once before and he was able to give them the slip.
 
#2,910
#2,910
ButchPlz said:
Whose indeed.
Click to expand...

Arbery's trespass doesn't factor in because at most it would be a misdemeanor. You cannot initiate a citizen's arrest over a misdemeanor per GA state law. Therefore the McMichael's attempt to detain him was unlawful. At the least, the McMichael's are guilty of manslaughter. Prove aggravated assault and it automatically becomes felony murder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bigun
#2,912
#2,912
Weezer said:
Arbery's trespass doesn't factor in because at most it would be a misdemeanor. You cannot initiate a citizen's arrest over a misdemeanor per GA state law. Therefore the McMichael's attempt to detain him was unlawful. At the least, the McMichael's are guilty of manslaughter. Prove aggravated assault and it automatically becomes felony murder.
Click to expand...
I'm not focused in on the law, once again. I don't particularly care, once again.

In the grand scheme, a dummy died and two dummies will suffer for their role in killing the other dummy. My concern is why these dummies are dummies in the first place, and why so many people are rushing to defend one or the other of the dummies when it truthfully doesn't teach us anything and really doesn't matter.

Edit to add: I want us to start threads for every methhead or crack addict that kills another methhead or crack addict for the consistency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77
#2,914
#2,914
bamawriter said:
I highly doubt the longer video shows that, since Greg McMichael admitted that they tried to cut him off once before and he was able to give them the slip.
Click to expand...
No argument there, but I was just pointing the false accusation that when they found him they shot him. They were close enough to shoot him long before the video we have all seen is what my point is and only saying that to bring up the "they were hunting him" to shoot him on site doesn't seem to hold water as a charge. Doesn't mean they are innocent, just not the narrative the way the facts of the case are so far.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77
#2,915
#2,915
Bigun said:
I absolutely believe they are guilty and should do jail time. I'm more concerned that the prosecution is going to give into public pressure and overcharge them and they will get off, much like the Zimmeran/Trayvon case. I do have a problem with false narratives being put out, but that is happening in every case, especially ones with notoriety like this one. If we could all deal in the facts without emotion, which I'm guilty off obviously, it would be better, even if the facts go against what we think/believe happened.

Personally I don't have a problem with older video's of Arbery being arrested showing up. They were going to come out anyway at trail but also in full disclosure we need to know past history on both parties. If something came out damaging against the McMichaels from a few years ago, we need to know that so we can look at their past history. JMO.
Click to expand...
Whether or not Arbery's history is allowed to be presented will be up to the judge. Legally, it has nothing to do with this case. It only matters if he committed a crime that day, and whether or not that crime would have allowed for the McMichael's to make a citizen's arrest. Trespassing would not meet that threshold.
 
#2,916
#2,916
ButchPlz said:
I'm not focused in on the law, once again. I don't particularly care, once again.

In the grand scheme, a dummy died and two dummies will suffer for their role in killing the other dummy. My concern is why these dummies are dummies in the first place, and why so many people are rushing to defend one or the other of the dummies when it truthfully doesn't teach us anything and really doesn't matter.

Edit to add: I want us to start threads for every methhead or crack addict that kills another methhead or crack addict for the consistency.
Click to expand...
Then other than acting like a complete ass, why are you posting on the subject? If it holds no value to you, if you truly don't care, why waste your time?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 95 Vol Alum
#2,917
#2,917
Weezer said:
Whether or not Arbery's history is allowed to be presented will be up to the judge. Legally, it has nothing to do with this case. It only matters if he committed a crime that day, and whether or not that crime would have allowed for the McMichael's to make a citizen's arrest. Trespassing would not meet that threshold.
Click to expand...
I don't understand why the defendants or Arbery's past shouldn't be considered. It gives us insight into how they are inclined to act. If it came out that a few years ago the McMichaels did something similar then if I was on the jury I would want to know that. Same with Arbery. JMO, which doesn't mean it agrees with the law.

Also, I'm only pointing out Arbery's past not to clear the McMichaels of murder, but it might have an effect on what they are charged with or found guilty of in relation to murder/manslaughter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jp1 and Rickyvol77
#2,918
#2,918
Weezer said:
The McMichael's created the entire scenario with their poor choices. The claim of self defense does not hold water.
Click to expand...

Considering they were jailed on aggassault and felony murder that would appear to be the law's stance as well. (certainly at this point anyway)
 
#2,919
#2,919
Bigun said:
I don't understand why the defendants or Arbery's past shouldn't be considered. It gives us insight into how they are inclined to act. If it came out that a few years ago the McMichaels did something similar then if I was on the jury I would want to know that. Same with Arbery. JMO, which doesn't mean it agrees with the law.

Also, I'm only pointing out Arbery's past not to clear the McMichaels of murder, but it might have an effect on what they are charged with or found guilty of in relation to murder/manslaughter.
Click to expand...

Prior bad acts are only admissible if the defendants could have possibly known about them and that they might have had an effect the defendants' decisions. You can't simply lay out the victim's jacket before the jury for the sake of suggesting that he might have been doing something wrong at the moment in question.
 
#2,920
#2,920
Weezer said:
Then other than acting like a complete ass, why are you posting on the subject? If it holds no value to you, if you truly don't care, why waste your time?
Click to expand...
Because I think there are other questions in this case that haven't been answered that I'd like answers to. Such as: why does it matter? Why are some people so quick to take up this banner and launch on some kind of sad crusade against other people over this? Why do so many people think they need to be judge, jury, and executioner (on both sides, mind you) when they've not got a perfect picture of things?

That's why I'm here and what I've been trying to root out. You came up because you've been extremely irritable to a lot of people over this. Do you care because you see this as some kind of trend you want to stop in this country, or because you want to be right? Honest question.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77
#2,921
#2,921
Bigun said:
I don't understand why the defendants or Arbery's past shouldn't be considered. It gives us insight into how they are inclined to act. If it came out that a few years ago the McMichaels did something similar then if I was on the jury I would want to know that. Same with Arbery. JMO, which doesn't mean it agrees with the law.

Also, I'm only pointing out Arbery's past not to clear the McMichaels of murder, but it might have an effect on what they are charged with or found guilty of in relation to murder/manslaughter.
Click to expand...
Legally, Arbery's past has no bearing in this case because it cannot be reasoned the McMichael's had knowledge of his past. For them to initiate a citizen's arrest, they would have had to witness him commit a felony that day, or have caught him in the act. They didn't. At most, they can claim knowledge of trespassing, which does not rise to the level to allow for citizen's arrest. That means their attempt to detain him was unlawful. The crux of the case is did they engage in a felony activity themselves? If they did, they are on the hook for felony murder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bigun
#2,922
#2,922
ButchPlz said:
Because I think there are other questions in this case that haven't been answered that I'd like answers to. Such as: why does it matter? Why are some people so quick to take up this banner and launch on some kind of sad crusade against other people over this? Why do so many people think they need to be judge, jury, and executioner (on both sides, mind you) when they've not got a perfect picture of things?

That's why I'm here and what I've been trying to root out. You came up because you've been extremely irritable to a lot of people over this. Do you care because you see this as some kind of trend you want to stop in this country, or because you want to be right? Honest question.
Click to expand...

Extremely irritable to a lot of people? Have you read this thread? The majority of this thread is on the same side that I am. For most of this thread, Ricky has been the only dissenter. Based on your post, I have no idea which thread you've been reading, but it's obviously not this one.
 
#2,923
#2,923
Bigun said:
You said when they found him they killed him. I said that was false, in that they had found him and followed him and didn't kill him until they stopped ahead of him and he came to the truck and confronted McMichael. Your version makes it sound like a movie/dramatization that they decided to go "huntin' for black guys" and pulled up to him with him unaware and shot him, then opened a few beers and celebrated. Let's deal in facts and not emotion.

Arbery was scene in the house looking around, a neighbor hollered across to him and he took off running. McMichaels go out looking for the guy running from the house and find him and follow him (haven't seen the video but according to reports of what the video shows) then somehow got ahead of him, stopped in road to block him, Arbery approaches and confronts McMichael, he is shot and killed.
Click to expand...
Well, they couldn't kill him before they found him obviously. So the statement isn't false. Adding more words doesn't make it less true. (And I already said I didn't think they were setting out with intentions to kill him. But they did, well "he" did. That is a fact and it is undisputed. <- that's the A Few Good Men line I was referencing earlier. :) So those other words you decided to use, dumb move on your part.)

That bolded part is wrong too.
 
#2,924
#2,924
jp1 said:
Is it wrong to do it?
Click to expand...
Obviously, the penalty is Death.

Seriously. I'll say yes, its wrong.

But only if the owner has a problem with it.
If so, post a no trespassing sign.
Lock doors
Don't kill them if you don't need to.

It's not as big of a deal as its being made out to be here by the McMichael defenders/apologists. Seems to be all they have. That and he attacked one of the guys that had a shotgun, that chased him, cornered him and shot him 3 times.
 
#2,925
#2,925
Weezer said:
Extremely irritable to a lot of people? Have you read this thread? The majority of this thread is on the same side that I am. For most of this thread, Ricky has been the only dissenter. Based on your post, I have no idea which thread you've been reading, but it's obviously not this one.
Click to expand...
And yet you chose to comment to me, at the very least, indicating that a question I asked was "ignorant". That's not very polite.

Do you have no answers to anything else? It strikes me that you believe this whole case is nothing but entertainment and a chance for you to vent over... Something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rickyvol77
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top