The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

[DinkinFlicka]

I think these 2 men are idiots. I think what these men did was completely horrible, evil, and uncalled for. These men wouldn't want me on the jury.

With that said, I haven't seen any evidence that race was involved with this. These 2 men were looking for trouble and I honestly don't think race would've mattered here.

Seems as though the issue of racial motivation here boils down to the life experiences of the person forming that opinion. One can see a lot of things when two armed white men are playing vigilante and trying to make citizens arrest by corralling a lone black man in their truck in the middle of Georgia.

 

[Weezer]

I think the son will AT LEAST get a manslaughter charge (involuntary?) out of it. I say that because the guy jogging appears to have charged the son holding the shotgun as he came around the front of the truck. I guess it could go to second degree murder due to the fact this father and son reportedly had driven past the victim and then waited on him. That doesn't look good. These guys are idiots for not calling the police to check it out if they felt so strongly about it and then keep a safe distance. Completely avoidable. It comes down to judgement. They judged poorly IMO.

Straight manslaughter IMO. Nothing involuntary about it.

 

[Roustabout]

I’m willing to look at that evidence and amend my position. Link?

@Rickyvol77

 

[Vol8188]

Given the lack of information, idk how anyone can have a strong stance on this. I see it and just have more questions than answers.

 

[GVF]

Chiming in late, but even if the guy was acting suspiciously it was non violent in nature. We have a real problem on on our hands when citizens take it upon themselves to investigate and detain others.

Attempting citizen arrests and detainment is technically legal in most states. I agree with your statement when it comes to a citizen doing so with weapons. The prudent thing for a citizen in 99% of the scenarios is to just follow the perp from a safe distance and update LE on the location.

 

[TheDeeble]

Their intent may have been to scare, detain, intimidate, whatever.

Might have been. I think someone said earlier they said they believed he was armed himself.

They could have easily just maintained his location to authorities and allowed them to do their job.

Agreed.

 

[bamawriter]

I can concede the phone call didn't end inside the car.

There's still that 4 minutes between "we don't need you to do that" and the actual fight that is shrouded by lack of witnesses and phone call times. It's highly doubtful Zimm B lined for his car as soon as he was told that pursuit wasn't necessary.

I don't know that he "beelined" back to his car, but I also don't think the time between the instruction and the shooting is all that damning.

The conversation with 911 last a couple of more minutes during which he was clearly looking for landmarks to give the cops as he was a good distance off the road. The call ended at 7:15, the first cop arrived at 7:17, and the shooting happened in between.

 

[GVF]

Seems as though the issue of racial motivation here boils down to the life experiences of the person forming that opinion. One can see a lot of things when two armed white men are playing vigilante and trying to make citizens arrest by corralling a lone black man in their truck in the middle of Georgia.

State has no bearing. This time it just happened to be GA.

 

[bamawriter]

The reports I've seen say he was regular runner out doing his routine and was followed and cut off by the gunmen.

While I'm all for Cletus and Jim Bob being convicted, I don't buy the "avid jogger" line. I don't know many avid joggers that run in huge baggy shirts over belted cargo shorts.

 

[TheDeeble]

Given the lack of information, idk how anyone can have a strong stance on this. I see it and just have more questions than answers.

Agreed. A short clip where you keep losing sight of what's happening. Trying to base anything off the video is iffy at best.

 

[McDad]

I'm pretty conservative but I don't do the gun thing unless it involves them trying to get into my house. Then all bets are off regardless of race or gender.

I am pro ownership of machine guns, bazookas, rpgs, etc. I might be the most "out there" in weapons I support private citizens owning.

I would never go after a suspect. Defend my life or property, yes. But never pursue or hunt down someone.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Straight manslaughter IMO. Nothing involuntary about it.

It speaks volumes when we live in a world where in this can (ideally for some) legally happen:

You're walking down the street
I come up to you holding a gun (for the sake of the Rickies we'll say I'm only brandishing it, and not aiming it) and tell you to stop right there and that the police are on their way
You say "**** this" and walk away
I run past you and turn to face you yet again and repeat my orders
At this point, you realize I'm at best, horribly mistaken and acting way outside of my authority or, at worst, ****ing crazy and armed
There's no one else around, unless you want to throw a second armed gunman in my retainer
You're expected to just wait, because 2A
If not, and you decide I'm nuts and need to save your life, I can kill you and I might get away with it

Crazy, right?

Are you really going to wait there and assume I'm telling the truth and that I won't escalate the situation? I've had a gun pointed at me and you'd be surprised what your adrenaline can help you rationalize or possibly overthink. Charging the dude wasn't the smartest thing, but he was driven to it via several avenues. No denying that.

 

[Weezer]

I agree that cases like this are for the courts to decide, but i always like discussing the legal/social discussion points on incidents like this.

If i were a prosecutor, i'd harp on trying to prove the weakest part of the case which would be the "detaining/following" part which may go against the GA law for its version of false imprisonment. I just believe legally the initial DA assessment was right that they legally were carrying guns under the law, and the son legally had a right to self-defense from the assault on the son. The detaining part is the "weakest" part of the scenario. Other than that everything else is civil (wrongful death claim by family , etc)

If you believe they are guilty of false imprisonment, then how do you not see manslaughter? One illegal action led to another. Think about it. They are engaged in an illegal action trying to detain him. During the commission of said illegal action, the man is killed. That screams manslaughter IMO.

 

[Vol8188]

Chiming in late, but even if the guy was acting suspiciously it was non violent in nature. We have a real problem on on our hands when citizens take it upon themselves to investigate and detain others.

According to their testimony he was the guy they’d seen on surveillance video. I’ve never had issue with citizens taking things upon their selves as long as they’re right. That’s the big question here. Were they correct?

 

[n_huffhines]

If you believe they are guilty of false imprisonment, then how do you not see manslaughter? One illegal action led to another. Think about it. They are engaged in an illegal action trying to detain him. During the commission of said illegal action, the man is killed. That screams manslaughter IMO.

It's scary that regular joes understand the law better than this seasoned leo

 

[Vol8188]

I am pro ownership of machine guns, bazookas, rpgs, etc. I might be the most "out there" in weapons I support private citizens owning.

I would never go after a suspect. Defend my life or property, yes. But never pursue or hunt down someone.

I would for sure. I used to date a lawyer and one of our biggest arguments was over me saying I’d shut someone in the back if they were running away with my things. She was appalled. “That’s illegal!”. I told her my right to protect my property was neither given to me by the government nor capable of being taken away by the government

 

[Chris4Vols22]

While I'm all for Cletus and Jim Bob being convicted, I don't buy the "avid jogger" line. I don't know many avid joggers that run in huge baggy shirts over belted cargo shorts.

Shirt looks normal to me, and I honestly can't tell what kind of shorts they are. I do agree with you though, even though there's a guy in my neighborhood that runs in jorts everyday haha

 

[n_huffhines]

According to their testimony he was the guy they’d seen on surveillance video. I’ve never had issue with citizens taking things upon their selves as long as they’re right. That’s the big question here. Were they correct?

Unless they saw him commit a felony, they have no legal right to try to detain him. Suspicious behavior is not enough

 

[DinkinFlicka]

State has no bearing. This time it just happened to be GA.

South isn't exactly known for it's unity in diversity.

 

[Roustabout]

Parkridge is a more comparable distance and yes people from there come to block parties here all the time.

Yes, there is a huge difference between Parkridge and Lonsdale

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Shirt looks normal to me, and I honestly can't tell what kind of shorts they are. I do agree with you though, even though there's a guy in my neighborhood that runs in jorts everyday haha

Are we neighbors?

 

[bamawriter]

JMO, but the fact he was told not to follow yet chose to anyway should have made a case for involuntary manslaughter.

If you're referring to Zimmerman, I'm going to disagree. Following at a distance in order to give the cops a location of the suspect is totally fine. And there is available evidence that Zimmerman stopped actively following Martin after that instruction from the dispatcher. Martin was in the wind, and the fatal confrontation would not have happened had he not made the choice to go back after Zimmerman. It's hard to make a case that Martin was defending himself.

I would feel the exact same way in the Arbery case if the assailants had simply followed from a distance. But, unlike in the Martin-Zimmerman situation, Arbery's killers kept pursuing and attempted to detain Arbery. Even if Arbery initiated contact, it seems pretty obvious that he did so in self defense after his attempts to flee were thwarted.

 

[Vol8188]

Unless they saw him commit a felony, they have no legal right to try to detain him. Suspicious behavior is not enough

Depending on the value of the gun stolen it would be a felony. But personally I’d kill someone over a $5 coffee cup if they stole it.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Yes, there is a huge difference between Parkridge and Lonsdale

I know, and so does he. He chose Lonsdale on purpose.

 

[Weezer]

That was based off the 2 men's testimony.

From the several articles I've read, the men's own words don't even support they saw something happen on the same day. One article I read stated that the father saw the young man running down the street and thought he looked like someone caught snooping around on a surveillance camera. He supposedly yelled to his son, "That's him!", at which point, the actions that led up to the shooting began.