The murder of Ahmaud Arbery

[37L1]

Here's my problems with the local prosecutor. They "sat" on this for weeks. They did not involve GBI in February when this incident occurred. The GBI did not get involved until just before the arrests. I wonder why?

Most jurisdictions, when they find themselves in a situation that involves a serious homicide case, that involves ex-LEO/DA Investigator/whatevers, usually refer to the State/impartial investigator to take the case or at the very least assist.

Why didn't that happen here?

 

[bamawriter]

I'm not making any statements of innocent or guilt. Just that the guy would probably still be alive if he hadn't rushed the guy with the shotgun and tried to take it away.

I don't disagree. But if he didn't believe that in the heat of the moment I wouldn't consider that unreasonable.

 

[bamawriter]

Here's my problems with the local prosecutor. They "sat" on this for weeks. They did not involve GBI in February when this incident occurred. The GBI did not get involved until just before the arrests. I wonder why?

Most jurisdictions, when they find themselves in a situation that involves a serious homicide case, that involves ex-LEO/DA Investigator/whatevers, usually refer to the State/impartial investigator to take the case or at the very least assist.

Why didn't that happen here?

That's the $64,000 question. Many of us are asking that question. Whatever the answer is, it's hard to imagine that it's very good.

 

[BreatheUT]

Yeah, they saw him and got the weekend rambo posse together. Unclear if they saw him running or peeping into the house that was under construction.

I think I heard that and it's on the 911 call. If he did run from or peep in a house under construction is that a reason to chase with a gun. I guess there could be reasonable suspicion he was up to something else. What time of day was it? Unless that is a nigh vision video it still appeared to be daylight to dusk.

 

[Behr]

Nope, but it looks just like him

Oh. What did that have to do with the two guys mug shot?

 

[Weezer]

I'm not making any statements of innocent or guilt. Just that the guy would probably still be alive if he hadn't rushed the guy with the shotgun and tried to take it away.

And that somehow absolves all of the things the two men did leading up to that? I just don't understand the argument you're making, simply because there are a lot more "what ifs" to be had on the part of the father and son. If the son hadn't gotten out of the truck with his shotgun, if they hadn't blocked the road, if they hadn't decided to grab guns and pursue, if they had just left it to the police....These two men made several bad choices before we ever reach the point of the runner making his poor choice, and his poor choice was made under duress. Their choices were not.

 

[37L1]

That's the $64,000 question. Many of us are asking that question. Whatever the answer is, it's hard to imagine that it's very good.

Well, somebody, some day is going to ask the right person those questions. It would be nice to hear a logical answer that makes sense but I won't hold my breath.

I'm just thinking, "What do you think was going to happen? It wasn't going to just go away." Do the right thing, remove yourself or at the very least, bring in an available, impartial agency that has no connection with the suspects or victim. That's a basic no-brainer to me.

 

[GVF]

Here's my problems with the local prosecutor. They "sat" on this for weeks. They did not involve GBI in February when this incident occurred. The GBI did not get involved until just before the arrests. I wonder why?

Most jurisdictions, when they find themselves in a situation that involves a serious homicide case, that involves ex-LEO/DA Investigator/whatevers, usually refer to the State/impartial investigator to take the case or at the very least assist.

Why didn't that happen here?

I think they tried to move it around from one article I read, but most of the jurisdictions in the immediate area claimed conflict of interest due to the father, and no one would take it. Doesn't mean they were expedient, or understood the gravity of the incident and get the GBI in as soon as possible.

 

[BreatheUT]

I'm not making any statements of innocent or guilt. Just that the guy would probably still be alive if he hadn't rushed the guy with the shotgun and tried to take it away.

Sorry sometimes this stuff frustrates me because many on the board are often not flexible enough on both sides to just look at things objectively. We mostly stand firm looking through partison goggles. Both sides. Glad I'm more independent than Republican or Democrat.

 

[37L1]

My understanding is that the GBI is routinely called in for instances such as these.

I'm beginning to think that there was a reason why they weren't called right away and that reason isn't a good one. It's just plain stupid.

 

[Weezer]

Here's my problems with the local prosecutor. They "sat" on this for weeks. They did not involve GBI in February when this incident occurred. The GBI did not get involved until just before the arrests. I wonder why?

Most jurisdictions, when they find themselves in a situation that involves a serious homicide case, that involves ex-LEO/DA Investigator/whatevers, usually refer to the State/impartial investigator to take the case or at the very least assist.

Why didn't that happen here?

Did the county DA that the elder McMichael previously worked for immediately recuse herself? If not, why? And when she did, why was it transferred to a second DA who also ended up having to recuse himself for previous ties to McMichael? It just looks bad, and needs to be investigated IMO. Were they trying to cover up for a friend? I'm not saying they were or they weren't, but just the appearance of impropriety needs to be looked at.

 

[TheDeeble]

And that somehow absolves all of the things the two men did leading up to that? I just don't understand the argument you're making, simply because there are a lot more "what ifs" to be had on the part of the father and son. If the son hadn't gotten out of the truck with his shotgun, if they hadn't blocked the road, if they hadn't decided to grab guns and pursue, if they had just left it to the police....These two men made several bad choices before we ever reach the point of the runner making his poor choice, and his poor choice was made under duress. Their choices were not.

I'm not trying to absolve anyone of anything. I don't know the Georgia laws. I'd imagine they'd be found guilty of manslaughter if nothing else.

There are many what ifs. Sure, if the guys hadn't followed him or if they hadn't brought a shotgun nobody would have died. But they did those things and everybody was alive until when? What happened to cause the shooting to start? Arbery can't control what they do. He can only control what he does. Everybody was alive and healthy until he rushed the guy with the shotgun and tried to take it.

 

[37L1]

Did the county DA that the elder McMichael previously worked for immediately recuse herself? If not, why? And when she did, why was it transferred to a second DA who also ended up having to recuse himself for previous ties to McMichael? It just looks bad, and needs to be investigated IMO. Were they trying to cover up for a friend? I'm not saying they were or they weren't, but just the appearance of impropriety needs to be looked at.

Most definitely. Like I said, this just reeks of stupid. The GBI is there for these type of things, it's happened before in other cases and other jurisdictions in Georgia. I'm willing to bet that they have written procedures that tells them to do this. God, this just boggles my mind. What did they think was going to happen? They just made it worse by not handing it off right away. I'm speechless.

 

[Weezer]

I'm not trying to absolve anyone of anything. I don't know the Georgia laws. I'd imagine they'd be found guilty of manslaughter if nothing else.

There are many what ifs. Sure, if the guys hadn't followed him or if they hadn't brought a shotgun nobody would have died. But they did those things and everybody was alive until when? What happened to cause the shooting to start? Arbery can't control what they do. He can only control what he does. Everybody was alive and healthy until he rushed the guy with the shotgun and tried to take it.

And the two men controlled their own actions as well. I find it perfectly reasonable to expect when you confront someone with gun in hand, they're going to have some kind of reaction. Two of them(both armed) and one of Arbery. They created the a threatening situation to begin with. I think that's what caused the shooting myself. No threatening situation, no violence occurs. Everybody was alive and healthy until they decided to act like cowboys and take the law in their own hands.

 

[bamawriter]

I'm not trying to absolve anyone of anything. I don't know the Georgia laws. I'd imagine they'd be found guilty of manslaughter if nothing else.

There are many what ifs. Sure, if the guys hadn't followed him or if they hadn't brought a shotgun nobody would have died. But they did those things and everybody was alive until when? What happened to cause the shooting to start? Arbery can't control what they do. He can only control what he does. Everybody was alive and healthy until he rushed the guy with the shotgun and tried to take it.

Again, you can't threaten someone and persist in doing so until they finally lash out and then claim self defense. You can play the "but for this..." game all day, but none of those different "but fors" matter except for the act that establishes criminal responsibility.

 

[FLVOL_79]

What I really want to know is how much money someone is making off the Run with Maud shirts? The entrepreneurial spirit never dies, even during tragedies!

 

[GreyWolf1129]

My AOR. Not my County, but I know a bunch of the involved parties.

More heads yet to roll on this one...

 

[Weezer]

Just being honest, I don't understand the victim blaming, or the desire to mitigate what these two dumbasses did. Yes, the victim shouldn't have charged, but damn, you don't know how you're going to react until you're the one that finds yourself confronted by two armed strangers in the middle of the road with no lawful authority.

And, not making this a racist issue, but it does take on another level when it's a black man confronted by two white men. Right or wrong, our society tells black people to be afraid when confronted by white men, and honestly, vice versa. We don't live in a society that promotes racial unity. We are told to be suspicious of each other through media and so-called leaders. Racism doesn't actually have to occur for it to be part of the equation.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Again, you can't threaten someone and persist in doing so until they finally lash out and then claim self defense. You can play the "but for this..." game all day, but none of those different "but fors" matter except for the act that establishes criminal responsibility.

There's a GA Supreme Court decision that makes it quite clear.

From 1920, of all things.

 

[Weezer]

My AOR. Not my County, but I know a bunch of the involved parties.

More heads yet to roll on this one...

You probably can't say too much, but do you feel people were trying to protect these two somehow?

 

[GVF]

I think I heard that and it's on the 911 call. If he did run from or peep in a house under construction is that a reason to chase with a gun. I guess there could be reasonable suspicion he was up to something else. What time of day was it? Unless that is a nigh vision video it still appeared to be daylight to dusk.

That is a question I have if I needed to evaluate evidence as a juror:

Is it illegal or cause for justified suspicion to peek in a house under construction. YES, if you have stolen goods in hand from that house under construction. Otherwise, I've done that many, many times just to see the house.

Also, his family said he jogs a lot and was out for a run. He was only 2 miles from his house, so it was not unreasonable for him to be jogging in that area. But, most dedicated runners wouldn't stop the run to peek in a house under construction. They even run in place at intersections. They are creatures of habits. Many runners may in fact use a primary running route.

From the video, can it be seen what he's wearing. Running pants/shorts, shirt, shoes. T-shirt not abnormal, but frequent runners have quality running shoes and either athletic tights or running shorts. Long cargo type heavy shorts and cross trainers or high tops make me go hmmm, if some one says they jog the roads. Cross Trainer on a trail runner more reasonable.

I don't see anything but an uphill climb for these guys trying to stay out of jail. But, these observations could make a difference to a jury on how severe the penalty may be. If the guy was out of place, and they had reasonable suspicion, then they could drop down to manslaughter.

With its publicity, how do these two men now get a "fair" trial. The best evidence of what little exists is a viral video, and well played 911 call.

 

[RockyTop85]

Most definitely. Like I said, this just reeks of stupid. The GBI is there for these type of things, it's happened before in other cases and other jurisdictions in Georgia. I'm willing to bet that they have written procedures that tells them to do this. God, this just boggles my mind. What did they think was going to happen? They just made it worse by not handing it off right away. I'm speechless.

Privately, I think most DA’s would tell you they relish the opportunity to do that. It takes the ticking time bomb that explodes into this exact scenario and plants it squarely in the lap of somebody else who probably isn’t even elected.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

You probably can't say too much, but do you feel people were trying to protect these two somehow?

If you dig back through my posts, you'll find some posts I made in another thread right after this broke. You'll have to take it on faith that I do know more than I can say, but what I can tell you is that this ain't over yet. There are those yet to be held accountable for their actions, or inaction, and their day of reckoning will almost certainly come. Stay tuned; this isn't over yet. Some things take time, especially when it involves those in a position of power. But I'd bet my favorite rifle that it's not over.

As I said before in one of those earlier posts, let Justice be found, regardless of where that goes.

 

[Weezer]

That is a question I have if I needed to evaluate evidence as a juror:

Is it illegal or cause for justified suspicion to peek in a house under construction. YES, if you have stolen goods in hand from that house under construction. Otherwise, I've done that many, many times just to see the house.

Also, his family said he jogs a lot and was out for a run. He was only 2 miles from his house, so it was not unreasonable for him to be jogging in that area. But, most dedicated runners wouldn't stop the run to peek in a house under construction. They even run in place at intersections. They are creatures of habits. Many runners may in fact use a primary running route.

From the video, can it be seen what he's wearing. Running pants/shorts, shirt, shoes. T-shirt not abnormal, but frequent runners have quality running shoes and either athletic tights or running shorts. Long cargo type heavy shorts and cross trainers or high tops make me go hmmm, if some one says they jog the roads. Cross Trainer on a trail runner more reasonable.

I don't see anything but an uphill climb for these guys trying to stay out of jail. But, these observations could make a difference to a jury on how severe the penalty may be. If the guy was out of place, and they had reasonable suspicion, then they could drop down to manslaughter.

With its publicity, how do these two men now get a "fair" trial. The best evidence of what little exists is a viral video, and well played 911 call.

As for what he was running in, it's easy to assume a "dedicated" runner would have certain workout gear, but honestly, I'd want to know his financial situation before ruling on whether running in regular, non-athletic clothes was abnormal. Not every one is going to go out and spend money they need for more pressing reasons on specialized clothing.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

If you dig back through my posts, you'll find some posts I made in another thread right after this broke. You'll have to take it on faith that I do know more than I can say, but what I can tell you is that this ain't over yet. There are those yet to be held accountable for their actions, or inaction, and their day of reckoning will almost certainly come. Stay tuned; this isn't over yet. Some things take time, especially when it involves those in a position of power. But I'd bet my favorite rifle that it's not over.

As I said before in one of those earlier posts, let Justice be found, regardless of where that goes.

Get a VPN and spill the beans or don't bother teasing at all.