The Nutjobs threatening to burn Qurans thread (merged)

#151
#151
lawgator1 said:
I have come to think at this point that it would be a very gracious act by the New York Imam to decide to move the cultural center some distance, no matter how minimal, from the current proposed location. I don't like the notion of him doing that under pressure because I think that sends the wrong message, i.e. that the shrill voices of ignorance and bigotry (see above) can win out over measured and sound thinking. But if it would serve the larger purpose of convincing folks like you, sjt and gsvol, that not all of Islam is "out to get us," then it would probably worth it.

If he moves it because of this loon Jones, then I just flat give up.
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How about the message the imam could send if he did move it under pressure. Why can't Islam show one instance of compromise?

It would give you guys all the ammo in the world if you could point to ONE THING that shows Islam being tolerant of others.
 
#152
#152
lawgator1 said:
I don't like the notion of him doing that under pressure because I think that sends the wrong message, i.e. that the shrill voices of ignorance and bigotry (see above) can win out over measured and sound thinking.
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But according to the usual liberal mantra, the speech in FL would be even more important to protect because it is "supposedly" more outrageous. However, you balk at the very notion this imam's connections, statements, or financing should be looked at from the political/terrorist perspective. There is NOTHING more outrageous than allowing a professed enemy or associate of an enemy establish a monument that can be construed as marking the site of a great "victory".
But if it would serve the larger purpose of convincing folks like you, sjt and gsvol, that not all of Islam is "out to get us," then it would probably worth it.
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I never said they were. I said you were and are very naive as to how pervasive their hatred for us is and even more naive as to the reasons.
 
#153
#153
lawgator1 said:
I find fascinating the argument that, because they are not as enlightened as we are, we should retreat Chirstianity to 15th century levels of tolerance, too.

Brilliant.
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Going overboard?

Do you really think we have shown the level of tolerance the 15th century guys had?
 
#154
#154
lawgator1 said:
I find fascinating the argument that, because they are not as enlightened as we are, we should retreat Chirstianity to 15th century levels of tolerance, too.

Brilliant.
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Please cite where anyone suggested that. How condescending of you to insenuate they aren't as enlightened... The believe themselves to be very enlightened and pursuing the rightful aims of Allah as found in the Koran.

We should not retreat to anything including that willfully ignorant shell you've constructed. We should apply tolerance like justice on a single standard.

Conservatives have said that the mosque is their right to build as long as it does not have political ties to hostile political forces AND that this pastor has a right to burn Korans... no matter how offensive or stupid the expression is.
 
#155
#155
MontereyVol said:
How about the message the imam could send if he did move it under pressure. Why can't Islam show one instance of compromise?

It would give you guys all the ammo in the world if you could point to ONE THING that shows Islam being tolerant of others.
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First, I would have no problem with him doing it under the right pressure. That is to say, if it was explained that this is too soon, its very hurtful, and let's open up dialogue about this, that would be fine.

But the rabid anti-Muslim contingent, like gsvol and sjt, view this at a level of not tolerating Islam, at all. Under pressure from people like that, I wouldn't back down, etiehr.
 
#156
#156
lawgator1 said:
If it does get moved, the right will take credit for pushing him into it. But that's momentary, and relative to the goodwill it would earn at a tough moment I could live with that.
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Like a broad cross section of everyone pushing this pastor back... the difference is that conservatives are consistent in their treatment of those who say their actions are motivated by love for America and those whose motives may be hatred for America.
 
#157
#157
lawgator1 said:
But the rabid anti-Muslim contingent, like gsvol and sjt, view this at a level of not tolerating Islam, at all. Under pressure from people like that, I wouldn't back down, etiehr.
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Name one way that I have not expressed tolerance for Muslims or by silence or diversion demonstrate yourself to be an abject liar.
 
#158
#158
Freedom of religion and speech used to justify building a mosque and cultural center in NYC. Move down the coast to FL and the same group using freedom of speech and religion goes to using pressure, threats, and bullying tactics to get this pastor to drop his book burning. Strange how what the defenders of a mosque use to criticize "religious racists and bigots" in NYC is what they actually use in FL.
 
#159
#159
so if he were planning a bible or flag burning would we be having this discussion or had even heard about it for that matter?
 
#161
#161
lawgator1 said:
First, I would have no problem with him doing it under the right pressure. That is to say, if it was explained that this is too soon, its very hurtful, and let's open up dialogue about this, that would be fine.

But the rabid anti-Muslim contingent, like gsvol and sjt, view this at a level of not tolerating Islam, at all. Under pressure from people like that, I wouldn't back down, etiehr.
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Yeah, but you can't pick and choose the type of pressure you get placed under. I could make the same argument for the Pastor in Florida, maybe he feels like he would be labeled a coward if he didn't move forward with his agenda.

Get ready because it will only get worse. The old saying goes, if you give them an inch they will take a mile. There are plenty of examples of Muslims overrunning societies they have moved into. Not one example in reverse.
 
#163
#163
MontereyVol said:
Yeah, but you can't pick and choose the type of pressure you get placed under. I could make the same argument for the Pastor in Florida, maybe he feels like he would be labeled a coward if he didn't move forward with his agenda.

Get ready because it will only get worse. The old saying goes, if you give them an inch they will take a mile. There are plenty of examples of Muslims overrunning societies they have moved into. Not one example in reverse.
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And people like LG are handing them the keys.
 
#166
#166
The Iman in NYC, by voluntarily agreeing to move the mosque to a different location, could easily accomplish one of his primary objectives of building the mosque... fostering better relationships between Muslims, Christians, and any/all affected by 9/11.

Just curious (for LG and anyone else who cares to express their perspective)... which of the following do you consider to be the Iman's primary reason for building it where currently planned?

  1. Because legally they can?
  2. They shouldn't succumb to "right wing" and "religious fanatic" pressure to move it.
  3. Because in the end it will accomplish one of the objectives of fostering better relationships.
  4. Because it will be a monument of "a great victory" in the heart of the city for those who oppose Muslims.

Feel free to insert any other valid reason I may have omitted.
 
#167
#167
IBlvNTmWrk said:
The Iman in NYC, by voluntarily agreeing to move the mosque to a different location, could easily accomplish one of his primary objectives of building the mosque... fostering better relationships between Muslims, Christians, and any/all affected by 9/11.

Just curious (for LG and anyone else who cares to express their perspective)... which of the following do you consider to be the Iman's primary reason for building it where currently planned?

  1. Because legally they can?
  2. They shouldn't succumb to "right wing" and "religious fanatic" pressure to move it.
  3. Because in the end it will accomplish one of the objectives of fostering better relationships.
  4. Because it will be a monument of "a great victory" in the heart of the city for those who oppose Muslims.

Feel free to insert any other valid reason I may have omitted.
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One word.....Cordoba!
 
#168
#168
IBlvNTmWrk said:
The Iman in NYC, by voluntarily agreeing to move the mosque to a different location, could easily accomplish one of his primary objectives of building the mosque... fostering better relationships between Muslims, Christians, and any/all affected by 9/11.

Just curious (for LG and anyone else who cares to express their perspective)... which of the following do you consider to be the Iman's primary reason for building it where currently planned?

  1. Because legally they can?
  2. They shouldn't succumb to "right wing" and "religious fanatic" pressure to move it.
  3. Because in the end it will accomplish one of the objectives of fostering better relationships.
  4. Because it will be a monument of "a great victory" in the heart of the city for those who oppose Muslims.

Feel free to insert any other valid reason I may have omitted.
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5. Money and fame.
 
#169
#169
The wide spread angry reactions to this story SHOULD tell folks like LG to reconsider what they think about the Islamic world... but sadly it won't.

Notice that they didn't attack churches or even Christians. They didn't condemn just this small fringe group. The attacked military bases and condemned Christians universally.
 
#170
#170
sjt18 said:
The wide spread angry reactions to this story SHOULD tell folks like LG to reconsider what they think about the Islamic world... but sadly it won't.

Notice that they didn't attack churches or even Christians. They didn't condemn just this small fringe group. They attacked military bases and condemned Christians universally.
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When no book has even been burned yet.
 
#172
#172
#175
#175
lawgator1 said:
First, I would have no problem with him doing it under the right pressure. That is to say, if it was explained that this is too soon, its very hurtful, and let's open up dialogue about this, that would be fine.
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This is the argument that so many have made against the mosque yet they are called bigots and Islamophobes. You are now officially a bigot.
 
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