The Obama bubble has burst.

[BigPapaVol]

and your continued arrogance gives you little credibility as well.

let me know when you've actually spent time in a combat zone, then you might be able to claim you're at least as pro-military as I am.

and therein lies the difference. Right shoulder patch vs. no patch of any sort.

 

[truefan]

and your continued arrogance gives you little credibility as well.

let me know when you've actually spent time in a combat zone, then you might be able to claim you're at least as pro-military as I am.

That is like saying there is no way you could love sports as much as someone who plays it professionally. It doesn't mean a thing. I don't have to spend time in a combat zone to support the military as much as you. Thanks for your service, but it doesn't prove a thing as far as who lends the most support to the military.

 

[BigPapaVol]

That is like saying there is no way you could love sports as much as someone who plays it professionally. It doesn't mean a thing. I don't have to spend time in a combat zone to support the military as much as you. Thanks for your service, but it doesn't prove a thing as far as who lends the most support to the military.

please. How can one support the military any more than by giving of their life to the cause?

 

[truefan]

and therein lies the difference. Right shoulder patch vs. no patch of any sort.

Pretty sure of yourself. Still doesn't mean a thing as far as love or support of it.

It would be like saying you don't like golf as much as me, when I know you do despite the difference in playing levels.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

so how does that make LTC North the fascist? He was scapegoated to protect a sizeable intel operation and he knew the least of everyone else involved. Secord was also heavily involved and was at the flag level.

LTC North has some very interesting commentary on the entire ordeal, maybe he'll tell you about it sometime.

Maybe True will respond..... I am curious at this point.

I knew I should have asked him about Iran Contra after he visited our church!

I knew this conversation would come about some day!

 

[BigPapaVol]

Pretty sure of yourself. Still doesn't mean a thing as far as love or support of it.

It would be like saying you don't like golf as much as me, when I know you do despite the difference in playing levels.

no it's not. The man joined the service and went to combat for our country. He gave of himself to support the military that you talked about supporting. Those are two entirely different levels of support, much like the chicken and the hog at breakfast time.

Golf is a freaking game and the different levels of our game has nothing to do with this conversation or love of the sport. You love it more and likely know more about it than I because you lived it. I'll grant you that, but it's still a game and requires no level of commitment.

 

[truefan]

no it's not. The man joined the service and went to combat for our country. He gave of himself to support the military that you talked about supporting. Those are two entirely different levels of support, much like the chicken and the hog at breakfast time.

Golf is a freaking game and the different levels of our game has nothing to do with this conversation or love of the sport. You love it more and likely know more about it than I because you lived it. I'll grant you that, but it's still a game and requires no level of commitment.

I see your point.

 

[gsvol]

I keep seeing the word fascist thrown around. So right now, Obama and the democratic Congress are a bunch of military hating, Marxist fascists. There are many forms of fascism, but they are pretty much always anti-communist and militaristic.

So what is it?

No matter whether the label is 'fascist' or 'communist' they are both totalitarian oriented socialist systems which is the direction Obama and company are headed.

I concur....

:blink:

You don't know what you're talking about, North is anything but a fascist.

BTW, what was Ollie ever convicted of??? Nada!!

The same as the Marines of Haditha who Murtha publicly vilified and has never apologized to, all exonerated.

you're an absolute moron if you believe that a Lieutenant Colonel was even remotely driving that train. He was a scapegoat in Iran Contra and it was as intel operation, not some action tantamount to burglary.

My guess is that you have no idea what Iran Contra was about nor the levels of personnel involved in making it happen. Similarly, you don't want to know about it happening today.

Very well stated.

From the days of George Washington until the low life Carter took office, the POTUS had a discretionary fund available to spend however it wanted on intelligence operations, without that fund Reagan had to do some creative work to fund the Contras who were trying to protect their country from being taken over by the murderous Ortega.

Another thing Carter did was make intelligence more open to Congress, you might as well give away all state secrets to the NY Times.

The lying Kerry and his marxist tyrant loving pals were able to convince a prominent Republican senator that we were participating in the drug traffic business in central America and with his help were able to create the Iran/Conta scandal.

Our only involvement with drug trafficers was in order to gain intelligence on Ortega who was using drug profits to help augment his budgets from Cuba and the USSR.

Birds of a feather, Kerry, Harkin and Ortega.

 

[emainvol]

No matter whether the label is 'fascist' or 'communist' they are both totalitarian oriented socialist systems which is the direction Obama and company are headed.

This is why I make veiled reference to you being paranoid.

Also, I am just looking for consistency and accuracy. You are the self-proclaimed "truth bringer"

 

[SavageOrangeJug]

Ollie North and G. Gordon Liddy are a couple of guys that come to mind when the word fascist is brought up.

Oliver North is a loyal United States Marine who on more than one occasion, literally laid his ass on the line for this nation. How about you?

This nation is what it is, because of men like Oliver North.

 

[truefan]

Oliver North is a loyal United States Marine who on more than one occasion, literally laid his ass on the line for this nation. How about you?

This nation is what it is, because of men like Oliver North.

Never questioned his patriotism or his service record.

For the most part, I agree with this statement

 

[SavageOrangeJug]

Never questioned his patriotism or his service record.

For the most part, I agree with this statement

Then why would you refer to him as a fascist?

 

[hndog609]

Then why would you refer to him as a fascist?

I'm wondering if the 2nd part of his post doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

[truefan]

Then why would you refer to him as a fascist?

Many military men meet the textbook definition of being a fascist. If someone has fascist tendencies, it doesn't mean they weren't good soldiers or good patriots.

 

[truefan]

I'm wondering if the 2nd part of his post doesn't mean what you think it means.

I was agreeing with his statement why this nation is what it is because of men like Oliver North.

 

[hndog609]

I was agreeing with his statement why this nation is what it is because of men like Oliver North.

I'm pretty sure he meant that in a very positive context. Did you?

 

[gsvol]

LTC North has some very interesting commentary on the entire ordeal, maybe he'll tell you about it sometime.

I've met Ollie, he is a great guy, here is one of his stories;

When he was but a Captain he was under a no nonsense general who liked him and put him in a position that he only had to answer to that General.

The General always had three things on his desk, there was no clutter. The three things were a Bible, the UCMJ and a telephone.

On one occasion they were doing a maneuver that involved moving an army from deep in the southern USA to a northeastern position in a time frame while a USSR satellite was beyond the horizon, they had only a few hours to accomplish the mission.

After they begun to get underway Ollie had trouble communicating over his walkie talkie and had his jeep pull up beside a personnel carrier with a ten foot whip antenna and climbed aboard and communicated what he needed to but after exiting the carrier, instead of climbing down the ladder, he had the bright idea of just jumping down the eight to ten feet to the ground to save time.

He was encumbered with about forty pounds of personal equipment and when he landed he felt his back snap.

He had had chronic back problems since he was 19 years old and had broken it in a wreck in a '60 Chevy, he had broken it again in jump school.

A call was made and the medics arrived and just as he was being put on a stretcher, the general arrived.

He said to Ollie; "What are you doing?"

Ollie explained he had broken his back and was going to the field hospital but the General ordered; "Get up Ollie, I need you!"

Ollie complied although he was in great pain.

The general said; "Ollie, you've got to believe!"

Ollie, thinking of childhood Sunday school and then later professing to be a believer, and all his experience said; "I believe sir, but my back is broken."

The general grabbed Ollie by the lapels, snatched him up nose to nose, eyeball to eyeball and said; "Ollie, I said you need to Believe!"

Ollie said he felt his back snap into place and to this day has had not one more minute of back trouble.

And then they successfully completed the mission.

While I'm on this tact, when we went into Iraq, there was an American tank group poised on the border and their commander had his men all pray together the evening before their attack was to commence, during that night a rare rain fell in the desert and what they saw at the dawn was mine field in front of them but the rain had washed enough sand away to expose the tops of those mines and the tanks just just went around the mine field instead of just running into it.

Someone once said; "For the believer, no proof is necessary, for the non-believer no proof is possible."

Golf is a freaking game and the different levels of our game has nothing to do with this conversation or love of the sport. You love it more and likely know more about it than I because you lived it. I'll grant you that, but it's still a game and requires no level of commitment.

There were several notable people who refused to play golf with WJC because he always cheated on his scorecard.

The Clinton legacy:

- The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance

- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates

- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation

- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify

- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly

- First president sued for sexual harassment.

- First president accused of rape.

- First first lady to come under criminal investigation

- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign
contribution case

- First president to establish a legal defense fund.

- First president to be held in contempt of court

- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions

- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad

- First president disbarred from the US Supreme Court and a state court

I wonder if Obambi is going to get the rest of them caught, he sure is fond of hiring Clinton people.

 

[MG1968]

Many military men meet the textbook definition of being a fascist. If someone has fascist tendencies, it doesn't mean they weren't good soldiers or good patriots.

now you're really back pedaling. when you first referred to Ollie North and Liddy as fascists, it strains credulity to think that you were giving them any benefit of the doubt and considering them good soldiers or patriots.

 

[truefan]

I'm pretty sure he meant that in a very positive context. Did you?

Of course. Why wouldn't I? Because I am a democrat????? Coming from a military family and having grown up on Air Force bases, I have tons of respect for anyone serving our country in this manner

 

[truefan]

now you're really back pedaling. when you first referred to Ollie North and Liddy as fascists, it strains credulity to think that you were giving them any benefit of the doubt and considering them good soldiers or patriots.

No, you're wrong. Ok. I don't feel like arguing with you today.

No back peddling. Unique thought from unique individuals is why America is what it is(whatever that means). Something most of you seem to have difficulty in understanding.

:salute:

 

[MG1968]

No, you're wrong. Ok. I don't feel like arguing with you today.

No back peddling. Unique thought from unique individuals is why America is what it is(whatever that means). Something most of you seem to have difficulty in understanding.

right

 

[hndog609]

Of course. Why wouldn't I? Because I am a democrat????? Coming from a military family and having grown up on Air Force bases, I have tons of respect for anyone serving our country in this manner

I can live with that. I hope you can appreciate how one might be confused by your earlier citing of Lt Col North in post #91.

 

[MG1968]

I can live with that. I hope you can appreciate how one might be confused by your earlier citing of Lt Col North in post #91.

he knew what he was doing when he called Ollie a fascist and he in no way intended it to reflect positively. It was only after he was called on it by BPV and myself that he "spun" his comments into something else entirely.

 

[truefan]

he knew what he was doing when he called Ollie a fascist and he in no way intended it to reflect positively. It was only after he was called on it by BPV and myself that he "spun" his comments into something else entirely.[/QUOTE

Whatever. You don't what I am thinking. I meant it is as exactly as I explained. If I thought something else, I would have no reason to spin it. I don't care what you think of me nor do I need your affirmation.

Fascism and communism are opposite extremes from right to left. As I said, plenty of great military leaders exhibit traits as fascists. Sometime it is exactly why they are so effective. When you are in the military, they own you. You do as your commanding officer tells you. Correct???

 

[gsvol]

now you're really back pedaling. when you first referred to Ollie North and Liddy as fascists, it strains credulity to think that you were giving them any benefit of the doubt and considering them good soldiers or patriots.

There are too many people that don't seem to understand that 'fascist' and 'communist' are just different labels for socialism.

“When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don’t blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first.”
Jeane Kirkpatrick

"Liberals hate America, they hate "flag-wavers,"
they hate abortion opponents, they hate all
religions except Islam.

Even Islamic terrorists don't hate America
like liberals do. They don't have the energy.

If they had that much energy, they'd have
indoor plumbing by now."

Ann Coulter