The "Occupy" Rallies

#376
#376
Weezy said:
I think the "poor in America are the wealthist poor in the world" is idiocy as well. We have a growing safety net and a lack of individual savings supporting that standard of living.

As far as real income, this is what I found (red x, I'll look for something else)
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Have you been anywhere else in the world? Small look at a billion Chinese people, happy to work for $10 per week might help you. Hand made homes from trash might help you. Beggar cities might help. There aren't any cell phones in those areas and they wouldn't know a Playstation from a steak.
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#377
#377
lawgator1 said:
The problem with the argument is that it assumes that there is some reason not to tax the same income stream at multiple points because its dividend income. That makes no sense.

The reality is that our system will tax the same incoming dollar multiple times, regardless of the form. If you don't want that to be the case, universally, then fine. But why should someone being paid a dividend not have that taxed as ordinary income when a small business owner might pay taxes on the same dollar coming in to his business and then again when distributed to him as income?

There is nothing magical, or sacrosanct, about that dollar of income just because it was paid to you as a dividend.
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There is a reason to not tax the dividend income at the same rate as earned income. IT HAS ALREADY BEEN TAXED AT THE FULL RATE! It is not the governments money after it has been taxed once.
It is crazy to think that it "just fine" to tax at "multiple points" of PERSONAL income.
 
#379
#379
Weezy said:
I think the "poor in America are the wealthist poor in the world" is idiocy as well. We have a growing safety net and a lack of individual savings supporting that standard of living.
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Ignorant statement.
 
#380
#380
T-TownVol said:
There is a reason to not tax the dividend income at the same rate as earned income. IT HAS ALREADY BEEN TAXED AT THE FULL RATE! It is not the governments money after it has been taxed once.
It is crazy to think that it "just fine" to tax at "multiple points" of PERSONAL income.
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The S Corp exists for this reason. It is utter horsecrap
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#381
#381
You guys do realize that if you increase taxes on Dividends, you are not hurting Billionaires, you are hurting the Baby Boomer Generation because they are the ones who are going to depend on dividends for income. In addition, corporations will see that taxes on dividends will increase and that will make increasing dividends less attractive and instead drive share buybacks thus lowering the total amount you take in from the dividend tax
 
#382
#382
T-TownVol said:
There is a reason to not tax the dividend income at the same rate as earned income. IT HAS ALREADY BEEN TAXED AT THE FULL RATE! It is not the governments money after it has been taxed once.
It is crazy to think that it "just fine" to tax at "multiple points" of PERSONAL income.
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The S Corp exists for this reason. It is utter horsecrap to shove c corps and their double taxation down our throats just because they want to be public.
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#383
#383
VolsNSkinsFan said:
You guys do realize that if you increase taxes on Dividends, you are not hurting Billionaires, you are hurting the Baby Boomer Generation because they are the ones who are going to depend on dividends for income. In addition, corporations will see that taxes on dividends will increase and that will make increasing dividends less attractive and instead drive share buybacks thus lowering the total amount you take in from the dividend tax
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Attorneys that work for government officials do not want to admit this little tid bit either. This is all part of the administration's manipulation of the uneducated.
By the way......In before the "then why do you care if we tax the billionaires more if it is not hurting them", shiz.
 
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#384
#384
BigPapaVol said:
Have you been anywhere else in the world? Small look at a billion Chinese people, happy to work for $10 per week might help you. Hand made homes from trash might help you. Beggar cities might help. There aren't any cell phones in those areas and they wouldn't know a Playstation from a steak.
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Our poor are enjoying a SoL better than most of the world's poor. Our GDP per capita is also 10x higher than China's. We are better than China and we shouldn't strive to be more like China.

I don't think it's healthy for the economy when the lower and middle class's percent of income grows less than that of the top quantiles (resulting in a smaller piece of the pie). Especially when we are a nation driven by consumerism. Less expendable income by 50% of the population results in less demand which means less growth. If we prop those up with safety nets such as government handouts, subprime loans, and less individual savings, it will eventually crumble or just slowly decline.

So we can either pay our labor force like China pays theirs and become more like China, or we can reevaluate this whole free trade thing. I don't think our economy is evolving and replacing the manufacturing jobs with high tech jobs like some people believe. Maybe it does happen over the long term.
 
#386
#386
GAVol said:
I think double taxation sucks in all forms.

If the argument was framed as you did above, it would be one thing. Instead what we are getting is the height of intellectual dishonesty and the people using the "millionaires are being taxed at a lower rate than secretaries" example as if the income tax system is to blame know it and are merely exploiting wealth envy.
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Its been that way for basically all of modern history.

If you want to reform the tax code to tax a dollar of income one single time, we can have that discussion. But there is no reason to declare a dollar of dividend income somehow "special" and deserving of different treatment.
 
#387
#387
Weezy said:
We have a growing safety net and a lack of individual savings supporting that standard of living.
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This is what I don't understand. Why isn't a lack of individual savings first considered a personal problem?
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#388
#388
Weezy said:
Our poor are enjoying a SoL better than most of the world's poor. Our GDP per capita is also 10x higher than China's. We are better than China and we shouldn't strive to be more like China.

I don't think it's healthy for the economy when the lower and middle class's percent of income grows less than that of the top quantiles (resulting in a smaller piece of the pie). Especially when we are a nation driven by consumerism. Less expendable income by 50% of the population results in less demand which means less growth. If we prop those up with safety nets such as government handouts, subprime loans, and less individual savings, it will eventually crumble or just slowly decline.

So we can either pay our labor force like China pays theirs and become more like China, or we can reevaluate this whole free trade thing. I don't think our economy is evolving and replacing the manufacturing jobs with high tech jobs like some people believe. Maybe it does happen over the long term.
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Why is it not healthy to have asymmetrical growth? Makes no sense to me at all. What the hell is this "pie" you're talking about, unless you're making the socialistic argument about finite wealth and government driven equitable distribution? How in the world do you justify this crumbling argument as long as real wealth is growing or stagnant? Makes no sense when we would have to, by definition, grow at the population growth rate, which miraculously mirrors CPI over time.

Of course our economy evolves over time and has forever. It is evolving today. Just because it's not heading where you'd like or it's not made for worlds of high tech gigs doesn't mean it isn't evolving. It will never evolve without external pressures and it is getting them today. Government intervention might help in terms of foreign worker pool reduction, but isn't going to help anything by turning investment capital into consumer capital. That is the most shortsighted view I can imagine.
 
#389
#389
lawgator1 said:
Its been that way for basically all of modern history.

If you want to reform the tax code to tax a dollar of income one single time, we can have that discussion. But there is no reason to declare a dollar of dividend income somehow "special" and deserving of different treatment.
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yes there is. Dividend income is post investment income that has already been taxed prior to distribution. There is no possible way that you can view that as the same as ordinary income, unless you want to quell investment, which is silly in our system.
 
#390
#390
KiffinKiller said:
I'm becoming more cynical by the minute.
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As you should.

Granted, the protestors are naive, especially when it comes to solutions to what they correctly perceive to be the top 1 percent absolutely raping them in the butt.

At the same time, while they are amateurish and just sort of making some noise right now, don't for one second believe the cynical dismissive wave of the hand by the 1 percent (and their proxies) who try to paint the protestors as just a bunch of commies.

That is oversimplistic and designed to shift the debate away from the incredible and growing inequity of the last 4 decades.

The irony is that the vast majority of the protestors love the capitalist system. They hope to be a meaningful part of it, someday. But the perception is -- and it is correct -- that the top 1 percent own the politicians and the very mechanisms by which they stay in the top 1 percent while the rest of us keep bumping into greater tax burden and less productivity.
 
#391
#391
Just heard a blurb about OWS going to some executive's residence and protesting.

Stay classy OWS - I'm betting the SEIU was behind this since they've done it before.
 
#393
#393
golfballs03 said:
I don't understand what they are protesting
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LG explained it. It's twenty years of middle class and everyone else being screwed by 1%. American plight is due to the 1% and always has been. If the country was made up of just the 99% crowd, would be utopia.
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#397
#397
golfballs03 said:
and mad because wall street is supposedly preventing them from gaining employment
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Wall Street has killed the common man. Hell, I read that almost verbatim from LG, who apparently knows Joe Six pretty well.
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#399
#399
BigPapaVol said:
Nope. Tired of decades of being squeezed. Want Obama to fix it by payig off their loans with additional tax dollars from 1%.
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Yep, they are realizing their Masters degree from NYU in Native American Quilts isnt going to pay the bills and therefore the 1% should pay their $70K student loan bill
 
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