The "Occupy" Rallies

[MG1968]

How much in raw dollars or what effective rate?

At any rate, not an effective argument given the disparity at work there.

15% of 1 million is a lot more than 35% of $75K

I think you're the one with the math problem.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Please see my companion thread about the bank mortgage fund proposal being negotiated right now. It tells you what you need to know about these rallies.

no it doesn't. It's an effort to provide legitimacy that doesn't exist.

 

[gsvol]

rjd970, many on the left have waged war against manufacturing, oil, coal, and other production/resource related industries for years. I would be willing to wager that most of the people in this protest would advocate even more strict regulations of those things...

... then out of the other sides of their mouths they want to complain about a lack of good jobs and corporate investment in the domestic economy.

In essence, those holding these left wing ideals created this problem and now they protest the consequences.

I love how all college kids get lumped into all this. I'm about as liberal a person as you can find at UTK, but these protests piss me off. I'll tell you why these kids can't find jobs, because they're annoying bratty tools with an extremely warped view of reality. If they want jobs then appeal to employers, don't run around protesting corporations on national TV.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

well guess what, those actions are becoming the face of this movement.

say what you will about the Tea Party, they did not become defined by their lunatic fringe despite the best efforts of people like you. The OWS is defined by it's fringe, perhaps because, at it's core, the OWS is little more than the anti-war movement of a few years ago.

Funny how that so-called movement protested Iraq,
which was advocated by ALL leadin democraps btw,
but initiated by Bush but not a peep when we bomebed
Serbia into the stone age or did the same in Libya!

They are the "face" of the movement because the GOP has knee-jerk reacted to make it about them. Its not nearly as partisan as it is being made out to be. Fox is basically 24/7 mocking them because they don't get it, at all.

Its not a pro-Democrat thing. Not remotely.

Get what?????

Video Exposing How ‘Occupy Wall Street’ Was Organized
From Day One by SEIU/ACORN Front – The Working
Family Party, and How They All Tie to the Obama Administration, DNC, Democratic Socialists of
America, Tides and George SoreA$$:

Video Exposing How ‘Occupy Wall Street’ Was Organized From Day One by SEIU / ACORN Front – The Working Family Party, and How They All Tie to the Obama Administration, DNC, Democratic Socialists of America, Tides and George Soros | V...

or they just don't believe that what one person earns actually belongs to another

Why the merge of my shtead starter into this glob
of gobblygook?

The OWS fiasco is clearly meant to detract from the
Tea Party movement, which along with Beck is the
first conservate protests in the history of America.

Even now we have Iran claiming all these protests,
including the Tea Party are the American autumn
answer to the arab spring.

You have Wapo, aka pravda on the Potomac and the
flaming bundle of twigs at the NY Slims trying to
cast blame on the conservates/GOP for the whole
mess.

There needs to be a clear distinction drawns between
the wholly seperate movements, if you can actually
call OWS a movement.

I suppose you are going to let ACLG's new thread stand
independently??

 

[sjt18]

Its been all over the news of late. Seriously. Rather a common event these days. Google it, I am sure it will come up.

Then why are you against the Ryan plan? Why do you oppose the Fair Tax? Why aren't you a rabid supporter of Cain? For that matter why don't you DEMAND that the Dems that you so faithfully support accept either a flat tax or the Fair Tax as a total replacement for the current system?

You support the very people who are standing in the way of real tax code reform.

All have a legitimate, workable solution for REALLY getting the rich to "pay their fair share" without being able to avoid it by buying political favor.

 

[lawgator1]

15% of 1 million is a lot more than 35% of $75K

I think you're the one with the math problem.

And keeping $850,000 is a lot better than keeping $48,000.

For one thing, gives you more to spend on reelection campaigns for your buds.

 

[lawgator1]

Then why are you against the Ryan plan? Why do you oppose the Fair Tax? Why aren't you a rabid supporter of Cain? For that matter why don't you DEMAND that the Dems that you so faithfully support accept either a flat tax or the Fair Tax as a total replacement for the current system?

You support the very people who are standing in the way of real tax code reform.

All have a legitimate, workable solution for REALLY getting the rich to "pay their fair share" without being able to avoid it by buying political favor.

Very complicated answers.

In a nutshell, the Cain plan is interesting, but is another version of a regressive tax that shifts the tax burden even more to the lower and middle classes. Look who supports it to understand why.

 

[sjt18]

And keeping $850,000 is a lot better than keeping $48,000.

For one thing, gives you more to spend on reelection campaigns for your buds.

LG, I want you to give an honest answer to this question. How many of the 100 years since the Income Tax was made legal have Progressives held control of Congress? I am going to cheat and give you the answer... all but about two... 1994 to 1996.

Since WWII when the Income Tax began to be broadly applied to wages, how many years have the GOP much less genuine non-Progressive conservatives held control or even had major influence in Congress? Hint: same answer.... and they didn't have the WH.

 

[GAVol]

If the dividends make you a millionaire every year its pretty hard to explain to someone who works at Wal-Mart for $20,000 why their rate should be higher than yours.

The whole premise of that argument is flawed though. You know as well as I do that the money generating the dividends didn't just grow on a tree. It was either earned income - that has already been taxed - or it was an inheritance - that has already been taxed.

 

[sjt18]

Very complicated answers.

In a nutshell, the Cain plan is interesting, but is another version of a regressive tax that shifts the tax burden even more to the lower and middle classes. Look who supports it to understand why.

No it doesn't. Even if the design allowed it (which it doesn't)... the effect would be more like what you say you want.

If you think I am wrong then you need to read more and apply some math/reasoning. The Fair Tax would send every family of four a pre-bate of about $450 per month. That comes to $5,400.

EX: Family of 4 making $80K per year. Current income tax bill... roughly $6000. If they spent $70K of the $80K on taxable items then the tax would be roughly $15,400... creating a "gap" of about $4000. However the Fair Tax is designed to replace not only the income tax but corporate taxes, fuel taxes, and other excise taxes. IOW's, their REAL tax burden is FAR less.

Some rich people (Kerry comes to mind) would probably pay more taxes on just their purchased meals than what they currently pay on their income. Michelle Obama's preferred afternoon lobster "snack" would net the gov't about $100.

The rich would indeed pay their "fair share".

Or let's go with a very simple flat tax. Standard deduction of 75% of the median income for each adult and an additional 10% for each dependent up to 3. IOW's a family of six led by two adults would have a standard deduction of 210% of the median single income... roughly $105K right now. After that, tax all income at 20-25%. Add to that a corporate tax rate of a flat .5% of revenue.

Simple. Direct. Non-meddling. FAIR.

 

[MG1968]

And keeping $850,000 is a lot better than keeping $48,000.

For one thing, gives you more to spend on reelection campaigns for your buds.

so what? The beauty of earning your own money, whether through work or investment, is being able to spend it however you want.

how much pro-bono work does your firm do? Is it 100%? Or do you like to have paying clients once in a while?

 

[Brewerw]

I laughed.

Laugh all you want, it's all relative. I reported taxes on a lawn business I started where I earned straight cash and never took a credit. Can you say you did the same ever?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Laugh all you want, it's all relative. I reported taxes on a lawn business I started where I earned straight cash and never didn't took a credit. Can you say you did the same ever?

How in the hell is it all relative? That makes no sense whatsoever.

What in the world does how I handle my tax bill have to do with you being a Samaritan? I'm grateful that you're helping feed everyone, but I'd prefer you do it with your money. Tax credits never paid for a freaking single thing.

 

[Brewerw]

Regardless, this is ridiculously off topic. Sorry I guided this thread so far off topic.

 

[sjt18]

Laugh all you want, it's all relative. I reported taxes on a lawn business I started where I earned straight cash and never took a credit. Can you say you did the same ever?

Do what you want with your money. Leave mine alone.

What part of "not yours" did your mama fail to teach you?

 

[MG1968]

Regardless, this is ridiculously off topic. Sorry I guided this thread so far off topic.

it would have been a worthwhile diversion if you realized that the government is neither efficient nor fair, but I don't think that lesson ever penetrated beyond your hairline.

 

[Brewerw]

it would have been a worthwhile diversion if you realized that the government is neither efficient nor fair, but I don't think that lesson ever penetrated beyond your hairline.

I do realize both of these things. I also realize it's the only entity capable of helping all the people in need. Believing charity is capable of saving everyone who needs it is naive IMO.

 

[MG1968]

I do realize both of these things. I also realize it's the only entity capable of helping all the people in need. Believing charity is capable of saving everyone who needs it is naive IMO.

then how on earth did the nation survive before the welfare state was put in place?

 

[volinbham]

Very complicated answers.

In a nutshell, the Cain plan is interesting, but is another version of a regressive tax that shifts the tax burden even more to the lower and middle classes. Look who supports it to understand why.

Hard to see how the tax burden is on the lower and middle class now.

The Cain plan, Ryan plan and Huntsman plan (along with the Debt Commission plan) all reduce the "boardroom interfering with the government" phenomenon that you and the OWS's seem so vexed about.

None of these are regressive either. The Cain plan is not regressive due to the use of a national sales tax which taxes consumption. The Ryan, Huntsman, Debt Commission plans all have progressive rate structures.

 

[Brewerw]

How in the hell is it all relative? That makes no sense whatsoever.

What in the world does how I handle my tax bill have to do with you being a Samaritan? I'm grateful that you're helping feed everyone, but I'd prefer you do it with your money. Tax credits never paid for a freaking single thing.

Yes, you're right, but they take money away from the government. When I making 10K over the summer, and I don't take a credit, I'm then paying above and beyond what I'm required to.
Your taxes matter because you first told me to "get fargin' started", then laughed when I told you I had? Relatively (making the fair assumption you probably paid back to bare minimum), I don't think you're really in a position to ridicule me.

 

[Brewerw]

then how on earth did the nation survive before the welfare state was put in place?

The nation=/= the poor and indigent.

 

[MG1968]

Yes, you're right, but they take money away from the government. When I making 10K over the summer, and I don't take a credit, I'm then paying above and beyond what I'm required to.
Your taxes matter because you first told me to "get fargin' started", then laughed when I told you I had? Relatively (making the fair assumption you probably paid back to bare minimum), I don't think you're really in a position to ridicule me.

the ridicule is well founded because you continue to hold the naive notion that the government is somehow better able to manage charity.

the money that you brag about overpaying to the government would go a lot further by donating directly to local charities. That way, it doesn't get laundered through a byzantine bureaucracy.

 

[Brewerw]

the ridicule is well founded because you continue to hold the naive notion that the government is somehow better able to manage charity.

the money that you brag about overpaying to the government would go a lot further by donating directly to local charities. That way, it doesn't get laundered through a byzantine bureaucracy.

I realize very well what you're saying. You seem to not understand what I'm saying though. Try rereading.

 

[Brewerw]

MG and BP, I really don't mean disrespect and I don't mean to come on here and be a blowhard either. I just see people in need, and see the government as the only thing large enough to help as many people that need it. People's abuse of the system in my mind doesn't justify abolishing it at the cost of the people who need it most. Charities are great, and I'm part of many of them. Hell, I'm an Eagle Scout...

And maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see charities ever being capable of taking care of everyone.

Though, I guess we're at a sort of impasse.

Anyways, much to your joy probably, I now have to go read about 300 pages of Atlas Shrugged for an exam tomorrow. Wish me luck.

 

[BeecherVol]

MG and BP, I really don't mean disrespect and I don't mean to come on here and be a blowhard either. I just see people in need, and see the government as the only thing large enough to help as many people that need it. People's abuse of the system in my mind doesn't justify abolishing it at the cost of the people who need it most. Charities are great, and I'm part of many of them. Hell, I'm an Eagle Scout...

And maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see charities ever being capable of taking care of everyone.

Though, I guess we're at a sort of impasse.

Anyways, much to your joy probably, I now have to go read about 300 pages of Atlas Shrugged for an exam tomorrow. Wish me luck.

Good luck.:hi:

Your money is better spent with the charities.

 

[VOLatile]

Norway seems to be getting along quite well with providing healthcare and education, among other things, for its citizens. Canada looks to be pretty immune to the global economic situation, even though it provides healthcare for its citizens.