The Official Detroit Lions Den Thread

#6,412
#6,412
I guess Holmes and company really like Manu if they gave up a third rounder next year in order to move up and take him.
 
#6,413
#6,413
Boston Vol said:
I guess Holmes and company really like Manu if they gave up a third rounder next year in order to move up and take him.
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Terrible Day 3 from Detroit which really doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things, but is annoying
 
#6,415
#6,415
Wingo and Mahogany make me feel better. Wingo will be in the DL rotation day 1 and Mahogany can start next year.
 
#6,418
#6,418
NFL Draft Thoughts by pick

1. They had to get a CB in round 1 IMO and I'm perfectly happy trading a third rounder to move up and grab the #1 or #2 CB that had a first round grade by everyone. Terrion Arnold is a good athlete with elite instincts and great football character, while also playing a physical game that can tackle. He is a Lions fit to the T. My only complaint is he is not an elite athlete but two things: Finding a super duper elite athlete CB past the first 10-12 picks is rare. Also, CB is a position where a good but not great athlete can still produce. He also has very good arm length for the position. If you look around the league, guys that aren't blazing athletes usually make up for it with their wingspan. I don't think he's an All-Pro talent but this was the right pick and when you are as close to a Super Bowl like the Lions are, trading up for the best player on your board in the first at a position of need is completely defensible. Really good pick.

2. Ennis Rakestraw profiles almost exactly like Arnold. He's good size, not a great athlete tester but plays super physical and produced his entire career with great football character. Rakestraw dealt with a groin injury that hurt his testing but bounced back at his pro day. Holmes said Arnold and Rakestraw were the top 2 CB's on their board and they went BPA at #61. Some people complained about the Lions double dipping at CB, especially after losing a third and not having a fourth (we will get there). But the CB room after 2024 is very lite and Rakestraw/Arnold both have experience playing at the nickel. This makes a lot of sense if you believe Brian Branch moves to safety which I believe this pick indicates. I liked this pick especially with how many WR's came off the board.

3. Look...I'm fine trading a 3rd for a fourth even though the numbers indicate it rarely works out. And I'm good taking an OT project when Decker is over 30, has one year on his deal and there isn't any other tackles that excite you in the program. But man...this truly feels like a reach. Giovanni Manu is a huge project, not even playing American college football. Yes, 6'8/350 with that athleticism is rare and if this was a 6th round pick, or you had three 4th rounders, I'd be fine. But I don't like the asset management and this is a huge reach trading a third next year for this pick. I really wish they had used this pick for a guy that can help this year's team. I get the logic and I understand taking an athletic project as such an important position. But I just wish this was something a little more concrete. Maybe I'm wrong. We will see.

4. I love Brad Holmes, but he has one weakness. He falls in love with a guy and can't quit him. Sione Vaki is fun, he's versatile. If he was drafted as a safety, I wouldn't even be opposed. But once again giving up draft capital (although small) for a RB in the fourth round when he will be third string for the next two years is just befuddling. I get Special Teams are important and the new kickoff rule really stresses that. Vaki will be a really good special teamer. He has awesome football character and the potential two way potential could be an interesting roster spot (a third RB/backup S/do it all special teamer is intriguing). But you look at WR, OG and Edge that could use some depth and you take a RB (when Craig Reynolds is perfectly fine as RB3) is a waste. At least I see the logic of Manu even if I don't like how we got here. This made very little sense to me and my least favorite pick. This just feels like a Holmes "I love the guy! I want him!" instead of sound overall decision making.

5. Now that I mentioned something that bothers me about Holmes, I want to point I love how he looks at the full picture of a prospect and doesn't let one thing ruin the profile. Mekhi Wingo is 6'0/285, and that is small for a DT. He is probably not an every down DT. But he produced in the SEC multiple years, he has elite athletic traits and he has good arm length/hand size for the position. He can pass rush, something Detroit needs in the interior and if Wingo was 6'2/300, he's a 2nd rounder. He plays with great leverage and hands and also has a great motor. The fact he fell to the 6th round while being a consensus top 100 prospect shocked me. Maybe his medical scared some teams or maybe it was the size issue, but I love this pick for this value. Even if he's a solid third down pass rusher from the interior, this is a good pick and worth a trade up.

6. I'm not an OL savant. A lot of times, when guys drop, the medicals (not privy to us amateurs) are bad. I don't understand how Christian Mahogany fell to the 6th round when he was a consensus top 100 player with zero character concerns I could find. He's good size for a G, he had elite RAS (his agility times are awesome) and he's a mauler in the run game with a mean streak. Maybe him being a little older played a factor and he can be sloppy in pass protection. But this made zero sense how he fell. This is my favorite non-Arnold pick for the draft. He can sit a year and learn under Hank Fraley to clean up his game and then replace Zeitler at LG in year 2. Hell, he could probably survive and be fine day 1. Loved this pick, great value.

The big thing was Detroit had to come up with a starter at CB and they might have come away with 2. Even if Rakestraw doesn't work out, Arnold is solid at worst and Bama secondary players have an awesome track record. Giving up #73 for that type of player was worth it. And if Rakestraw shows out in camp and they move Branch to safety, then that's a wonderful problem to have. When I texted my father, I told him if you switched the Mahogany/Wingo spots with Manu/Vaki, I'd probably be super happy. I still hate giving up a third for Manu. But overall that is small potatoes for a team so close to the Super Bowl. I'm not going to bitch too much about two fourth round picks from a 12-5 team that made the NFC title game. I freaking love the Mahogany pick and think he's a solid starter by mid-2025. The big thing if if Arnold and Rakestraw are solid starters, and one of the four Day 3 picks hits, this was a successful draft. And when in doubt, in Brad Holmes we trust.
 
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#6,419
#6,419
zjcvols said:
NFL Draft Thoughts by pick

1. They had to get a CB in round 1 IMO and I'm perfectly happy trading a third rounder to move up and grab the #1 or #2 CB that had a first round grade by everyone. Terrion Arnold is a good athlete with elite instincts and great football character, while also playing a physical game that can tackle. He is a Lions fit to the T. My only complaint is he is not an elite athlete but two things: Finding a super duper elite athlete CB past the first 10-12 picks is rare. Also, CB is a position where a good but not great athlete can still produce. He also has very good arm length for the position. If you look around the league, guys that aren't blazing athletes usually make up for it with their wingspan. I don't think he's an All-Pro talent but this was the right pick and when you are as close to a Super Bowl like the Lions are, trading up for the best player on your board in the first at a position of need is completely defensible. Really good pick.

2. Ennis Rakestraw profiles almost exactly like Arnold. He's good size, not a great athlete tester but plays super physical and produced his entire career with great football character. Rakestraw dealt with a groin injury that hurt his testing but bounced back at his pro day. Holmes said Arnold and Rakestraw were the top 2 CB's on their board and they went BPA at #61. Some people complained about the Lions double dipping at CB, especially after losing a third and not having a fourth (we will get there). But the CB room after 2024 is very lite and Rakestraw/Arnold both have experience playing at the nickel. This makes a lot of sense if you believe Brian Branch moves to safety which I believe this pick indicates. I liked this pick especially with how many WR's came off the board.

3. Look...I'm fine trading a 3rd for a fourth even though the numbers indicate it rarely works out. And I'm good taking an OT project when Decker is over 30, has one year on his deal and there isn't any other tackles that excite you in the program. But man...this truly feels like a reach. Giovanni Manu is a huge project, not even playing American college football. Yes, 6'8/350 with that athleticism is rare and if this was a 6th round pick, or you had three 4th rounders, I'd be fine. But I don't like the asset management and this is a huge reach trading a third next year for this pick. I really wish they had used this pick for a guy that can help this year's team. I get the logic and I understand taking an athletic project as such an important position. But I just wish this was something a little more concrete. Maybe I'm wrong. We will see.

4. I love Brad Holmes, but he has one weakness. He falls in love with a guy and can't quit him. Sione Vaki is fun, he's versatile. If he was drafted as a safety, I wouldn't even be opposed. But once again giving up draft capital (although small) for a RB in the fourth round when he will be third string for the next two years is just befuddling. I get Special Teams are important and the new kickoff rule really stresses that. Vaki will be a really good special teamer. He has awesome football character and the potential two way potential could be an interesting roster spot (a third RB/backup S/do it all special teamer is intriguing). But you look at WR, OG and Edge that could use some depth and you take a RB (when Craig Reynolds is perfectly fine as RB3) is a waste. At least I see the logic of Manu even if I don't like how we got here. This made very little sense to me and my least favorite pick. This just feels like a Holmes "I love the guy! I want him!" instead of sound overall decision making.

5. Now that I mentioned something that bothers me about Holmes, I want to point I love how he looks at the full picture of a prospect and doesn't let one thing ruin the profile. Mekhi Wingo is 6'0/285, and that is small for a DT. He is probably not an every down DT. But he produced in the SEC multiple years, he has elite athletic traits and he has good arm length/hand size for the position. He can pass rush, something Detroit needs in the interior and if Wingo was 6'2/300, he's a 2nd rounder. He plays with great leverage and hands and also has a great motor. The fact he fell to the 6th round while being a consensus top 100 prospect shocked me. Maybe his medical scared some teams or maybe it was the size issue, but I love this pick for this value. Even if he's a solid third down pass rusher from the interior, this is a good pick and worth a trade up.

6. I'm not an OL savant. A lot of times, when guys drop, the medicals (not privy to us amateurs) are bad. I don't understand how Christian Mahogany fell to the 6th round when he was a consensus top 100 player with zero character concerns I could find. He's good size for a G, he had elite RAS (his agility times are awesome) and he's a mauler in the run game with a mean streak. Maybe him being a little older played a factor and he can be sloppy in pass protection. But this made zero sense how he fell. This is my favorite non-Arnold pick for the draft. He can sit a year and learn under Hank Fraley to clean up his game and then replace Zeitler at LG in year 2. Hell, he could probably survive and be fine day 1. Loved this pick, great value.

The big thing was Detroit had to come up with a starter at CB and they might have come away with 2. Even if Rakestraw doesn't work out, Arnold is solid at worst and Bama secondary players have an awesome track record. Giving up #73 for that type of player was worth it. And if Rakestraw shows out in camp and they move Branch to safety, then that's a wonderful problem to have. When I texted my father, I told him if you switched the Mahogany/Wingo spots with Manu/Vaki, I'd probably be super happy. I still hate giving up a third for Manu. But overall that is small potatoes for a team so close to the Super Bowl. I'm not going to bitch too much about two fourth round picks from a 12-5 team that made the NFC title game. I freaking love the Mahogany pick and think he's a solid starter by mid-2025. The big thing if if Arnold and Rakestraw are solid starters, and one of the four Day 3 picks hits, this was a successful draft. And when in doubt, in Brad Holmes we trust.
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Good solid analysis,,,thankyou zjc
 
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