The Official Detroit Lions Den Thread

#6,443
#6,443
Ten Lions thoughts on my day off

1. The extensions absolutely had to happen. You see teams (coughDallascough) around the league not get things done and have distractions caused by not locking up your elite players. The Lions have zero to worry about with that. St. Brown is a top 10 WR and already two WR's (with Lamb pending) have already received deals worth more AAV. Sewell is the best RT in football and one of the 3 best OT in the game and he is turning 23. Getting him locked up for six years was massive. I am hoping something gets done with Alim this summer but that could be him wanting to see what the market is. Either way, St. Brown and Sewell are the heartbeat of this elite offense and getting those taken care of early is a win for everyone. Yes, the cap will have to be navigated but that's you have cap specialists. Lock up your core and don't sweat it out.

2. This deserves its own point because of how vital the QB position is. Jared Goff is a top 10 QB right now. Jared Goff played three good to excellent playoff games in a row. The Lions were one bad half of miscues away from making the Super Bowl against a team they already beat. Anybody who believes Goff didn't deserve the extension is downright lying to themselves. What were the options? Move heaven and earth to try and draft J.J. McCarthy? Give the keys to Hendon Hooker? There were zero better options. Yes, you must have an elite OL to make the contract to Goff worth it for the next three years. But you need an elite OL anyways unless you have Patrick Mahomes! And while is was reported as a five year extension, it's actually a three year extension with an out after 2027 (only a $14.6M dead cap hit for 2028). And if Goff plays awesome the next two years they will rework the contract for future relief.

3. The other thing I wanted to point out with Goff is that Holmes played it perfectly. The national media wanted Holmes to get a QB immediately. Instead he played it cool and built a Super Bowl contender. Here were the Lions options year by year since Stafford was traded to "find a franchise QB". Take Justin Fields or Mac Jones in 2021 who are both on new teams already. Take Kenny Pickett in 2022. Try and trade up with Arizona at #3 and take Anthony Richardson (since Carolina and Houston were taking QB's no matter what). If you want to hold it against Holmes for not taking Brock Purdy in 2022 to be Goff's backup that is you prerogative. There was no other move than riding with Goff and giving him an extension. It's simple. You can win a Super Bowl the next two years. Give Goff the money and figure it out later.

4. The secondary is going to be so fascinating to watch. I can see a lot of different scenarios playing out. The only two guarantees is Carlton Davis will play the field CB and Brian Branch will start. After that, it's all fair game. I think the Lions really want Branch to take a safety spot. Joseph is a ball hawk but really struggled in man coverage situations and missed a lot of tackles. Melifonwu really stepped up the last six weeks and could be the starting safety. Amik Robertson can play outside or in. Rakestraw can also. I think it's going to be Davis and Arnold at CB, Robertson as the nickel and then Branch at one safety and either Joseph or Melifonwu. The big key is an injury won't kill them like it did last year. There is plenty of depth unlike the last three years.

5. Listening to Robert Mayes and Bill Barnwell on a podcast talking about the Lions and they brought up how Detroit played so much man the second half of the year due to the lack of pressure outside of Hutchinson and they brought so many more blitzes. This brings me to Aaron Glenn, who I have criticized a lot. Glenn since day 1 has wanted to be a straight up man team and then to bring pressure. He has not had the secondary to do that the last three years. This feels like the time to finally figure out if Glenn's wants can bring results. Davis' injury history is scary but he's a true bump and run cover. Arnold has all the potential in the world to do that as well. Rakestraw was a cover man corner. Part of some of the sack issues have been secondary issues, especially at CB. This year, Glenn is going to be more aggressive than ever. We will see if it pays off or if Glenn's defense continues to give up massive yardage.

6. Something I've concerned myself with (mostly because this team is so well constructed there isn't very many weaknesses) is the age of the OL. Ragnow is 28 but has the inoperable toe and other injuries throughout his career. Taylor Decker is turning 31 and Glasgow is turning 32. Zeitler is 35. Sewell of course is so young and some depth was made by Detroit especially in the interior but I am wondering how long this core will last. They really need Mahogany and Sorsdal to be ready. Sorsdal was a stalwart in camp and Mahogany was projected to be a starter in the NFL before slipping to the 6th round. I'm curious with some of the extra cap space Detroit has if they go find a swing OT after training camp. They have the cap space for it and you know there is always some OL cuts before the regular season. I don't imagine Giovanni Manu is going to be ready and Sorsdal really struggled at RT last year. I love Dan Skipper but that could end at any point as a passable backup OT with his age. The interior of the OL should be fine if any long term injuries occur (barring catastrophe to Ragnow) but if Decker or Sewell miss any significant time it could get ugly quick. I hope Holmes has something up his sleeve in August.

7. Some national media has made a big deal out of Detroit's WR depth and it's somewhat fair. I also believe this group can be even better than last year. Donovan Peoples-Jones is only 25 and in 2022 had 839 yards with Jacoby Brissett/Deshaun Watson throwing to him in a run first offense. I don't know what happened in 2023 (it might have been unable to sync with Watson) but he's a legit physical presence and will have a full offseason in Detroit. The Lions could not stop raving about how Jameson Williams looked in camp and finally has an offseason where he can focus just on football. We saw the playmaking ability throughout 2023. Kalif Raymond is a perfectly solid depth piece. I wish Detroit had been a little more aggressive in the draft to find a WR but I think ARSB/Jamo/DPJ can be an overall top 12 WR group. Plus, Detroit has Sam LaPorta and Jahmyr Gibbs to help facilitate the passing game. And don't forget the $20M or so in cap space Detroit is going into the season with. The rumors of Davonte Adams wanting out of Oakland last year leaking did not seem like an accident. If Oakland is 2-5 next year, could Detroit make a swing with having their 1st and 2nd round picks all intact? It would not shock me.

8. The other pass rusher spot is going to be a fascinating battle. Detroit is going to play just two guys every down in Hutch and McNeill on the DL. Marcus Davenport to me was not an answer considering his injury history and only one truly good season. But I still think Josh Paschal and James Houston can be really good players in the NFL. Paschal has had good moments and I like what he brings inside on third down, but Detroit has a lot of options inside in 2024. I think Paschal needs to focus on being that other DE and try to take over that spot. Houston was never healthy except for week 1. Go watch him against Kansas City and he caused them problems. Either way, Detroit needs something from the other EDGE spot. Hutchinson had too many double teams last year.

9. I was thinking of how draft position can affect perception when it comes to Jack Campbell. Let's just play a pretend game where Brian Branch was the #18 pick and Jack Campbell fell and was the #45 pick in 2023. It would affect what the surrounding narrative around Campbell is. Instead of "they might have screwed that pick up" or "he didn't play like a All-Pro type LB" from 2023, it's instead "Wow they found a guy who received rookie DPOY votes in the second round!" or "Holmes does it again, finding a 95 total tackles, 2 sack, 5 TFL guy at LB at pick #45 in a new position!" Campbell struggled in pass coverage and I wasn't wowed by his sideline-to-sideline ability but he did get better as the year went along. Detroit moved him to MIKE and Anzalone to SAM this year to take advantge of Jack's natural ability and where he's played his whole life. I still don't love him yet but it wouldn't shock me if he was much improved in 2024 and made Detroit's defense better. I just need to see a little more natural instincts and better pass coverage.

10. Campbell is not a bullshitter, which is really helpful when it comes to spring and summer camps and who is actually improving. Jameson Williams got most of the attention with the praised he received but two guys also were mentioned by Campbell as guys he liked in camp. Levi Onwuzurike finally was healthy last year and didn't play a lot or make much on an impact. But his back was healthy all year (remembert he had spinal fusion, not an easy thing to go through) and Campbell pointed out how much better he looked and was moving. The same went with Brodric Martin as well, who admitted he wasn't ready in 2023 but changed his workouts and has been stuck by D.J. Reader's side since Reader was brought in. I don't have a ton of hope in either guy but if one of those can be consistently in the rotation, that really helps Detroit's depth and they do not have to junk up the middle of their defense so much like they have had to do. If Martin especially can be a nice option in the middle so Alim can wreak havoc as a pass rusher, that will free up the EDGE guys as well.
 
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#6,444
#6,444
zjcvols said:
Ten Lions thoughts on my day off

1. The extensions absolutely had to happen. You see teams (coughDallascough) around the league not get things done and have distractions caused by not locking up your elite players. The Lions have zero to worry about with that. St. Brown is a top 10 WR and already two WR's (with Lamb pending) have already received deals worth more AAV. Sewell is the best RT in football and one of the 3 best OT in the game and he is turning 23. Getting him locked up for six years was massive. I am hoping something gets done with Alim this summer but that could be him wanting to see what the market is. Either way, St. Brown and Sewell are the heartbeat of this elite offense and getting those taken care of early is a win for everyone. Yes, the cap will have to be navigated but that's you have cap specialists. Lock up your core and don't sweat it out.

2. This deserves its own point because of how vital the QB position is. Jared Goff is a top 10 QB right now. Jared Goff played three good to excellent playoff games in a row. The Lions were one bad half of miscues away from making the Super Bowl against a team they already beat. Anybody who believes Goff didn't deserve the extension is downright lying to themselves. What were the options? Move heaven and earth to try and draft J.J. McCarthy? Give the keys to Hendon Hooker? There were zero better options. Yes, you must have an elite OL to make the contract to Goff worth it for the next three years. But you need an elite OL anyways unless you have Patrick Mahomes! And while is was reported as a five year extension, it's actually a three year extension with an out after 2027 (only a $14.6M dead cap hit for 2028). And if Goff plays awesome the next two years they will rework the contract for future relief.

3. The other thing I wanted to point out with Goff is that Holmes played it perfectly. The national media wanted Holmes to get a QB immediately. Instead he played it cool and built a Super Bowl contender. Here were the Lions options year by year since Stafford was traded to "find a franchise QB". Take Justin Fields or Mac Jones in 2021 who are both on new teams already. Take Kenny Pickett in 2022. Try and trade up with Arizona at #3 and take Anthony Richardson (since Carolina and Houston were taking QB's no matter what). If you want to hold it against Holmes for not taking Brock Purdy in 2022 to be Goff's backup that is you prerogative. There was no other move than riding with Goff and giving him an extension. It's simple. You can win a Super Bowl the next two years. Give Goff the money and figure it out later.

4. The secondary is going to be so fascinating to watch. I can see a lot of different scenarios playing out. The only two guarantees is Carlton Davis will play the field CB and Brian Branch will start. After that, it's all fair game. I think the Lions really want Branch to take a safety spot. Joseph is a ball hawk but really struggled in man coverage situations and missed a lot of tackles. Melifonwu really stepped up the last six weeks and could be the starting safety. Amik Robertson can play outside or in. Rakestraw can also. I think it's going to be Davis and Arnold at CB, Robertson as the nickel and then Branch at one safety and either Joseph or Melifonwu. The big key is an injury won't kill them like it did last year. There is plenty of depth unlike the last three years.

5. Listening to Robert Mayes and Bill Barnwell on a podcast talking about the Lions and they brought up how Detroit played so much man the second half of the year due to the lack of pressure outside of Hutchinson and they brought so many more blitzes. This brings me to Aaron Glenn, who I have criticized a lot. Glenn since day 1 has wanted to be a straight up man team and then to bring pressure. He has not had the secondary to do that the last three years. This feels like the time to finally figure out if Glenn's wants can bring results. Davis' injury history is scary but he's a true bump and run cover. Arnold has all the potential in the world to do that as well. Rakestraw was a cover man corner. Part of some of the sack issues have been secondary issues, especially at CB. This year, Glenn is going to be more aggressive than ever. We will see if it pays off or if Glenn's defense continues to give up massive yardage.

6. Something I've concerned myself with (mostly because this team is so well constructed there isn't very many weaknesses) is the age of the OL. Ragnow is 28 but has the inoperable toe and other injuries throughout his career. Taylor Decker is turning 31 and Glasgow is turning 32. Zeitler is 35. Sewell of course is so young and some depth was made by Detroit especially in the interior but I am wondering how long this core will last. They really need Mahogany and Sorsdal to be ready. Sorsdal was a stalwart in camp and Mahogany was projected to be a starter in the NFL before slipping to the 6th round. I'm curious with some of the extra cap space Detroit has if they go find a swing OT after training camp. They have the cap space for it and you know there is always some OL cuts before the regular season. I don't imagine Giovanni Manu is going to be ready and Sorsdal really struggled at RT last year. I love Dan Skipper but that could end at any point as a passable backup OT with his age. The interior of the OL should be fine if any long term injuries occur (barring catastrophe to Ragnow) but if Decker or Sewell miss any significant time it could get ugly quick. I hope Holmes has something up his sleeve in August.

7. Some national media has made a big deal out of Detroit's WR depth and it's somewhat fair. I also believe this group can be even better than last year. Donovan Peoples-Jones is only 25 and in 2022 had 839 yards with Jacoby Brissett/Deshaun Watson throwing to him in a run first offense. I don't know what happened in 2023 (it might have been unable to sync with Watson) but he's a legit physical presence and will have a full offseason in Detroit. The Lions could not stop raving about how Jameson Williams looked in camp and finally has an offseason where he can focus just on football. We saw the playmaking ability throughout 2023. Kalif Raymond is a perfectly solid depth piece. I wish Detroit had been a little more aggressive in the draft to find a WR but I think ARSB/Jamo/DPJ can be an overall top 12 WR group. Plus, Detroit has Sam LaPorta and Jahmyr Gibbs to help facilitate the passing game. And don't forget the $20M or so in cap space Detroit is going into the season with. The rumors of Davonte Adams wanting out of Oakland last year leaking did not seem like an accident. If Oakland is 2-5 next year, could Detroit make a swing with having their 1st and 2nd round picks all intact? It would not shock me.

8. The other pass rusher spot is going to be a fascinating battle. Detroit is going to play just two guys every down in Hutch and McNeill on the DL. Marcus Davenport to me was not an answer considering his injury history and only one truly good season. But I still think Josh Paschal and James Houston can be really good players in the NFL. Paschal has had good moments and I like what he brings inside on third down, but Detroit has a lot of options inside in 2024. I think Paschal needs to focus on being that other DE and try to take over that spot. Houston was never healthy except for week 1. Go watch him against Kansas City and he caused them problems. Either way, Detroit needs something from the other EDGE spot. Hutchinson had too many double teams last year.

9. I was thinking of how draft position can affect perception when it comes to Jack Campbell. Let's just play a pretend game where Brian Branch was the #18 pick and Jack Campbell fell and was the #45 pick in 2023. It would affect what the surrounding narrative around Campbell is. Instead of "they might have screwed that pick up" or "he didn't play like a All-Pro type LB" from 2023, it's instead "Wow they found a guy who received rookie DPOY votes in the second round!" or "Holmes does it again, finding a 95 total tackles, 2 sack, 5 TFL guy at LB at pick #45 in a new position!" Campbell struggled in pass coverage and I wasn't wowed by his sideline-to-sideline ability but he did get better as the year went along. Detroit moved him to MIKE and Anzalone to SAM this year to take advantge of Jack's natural ability and where he's played his whole life. I still don't love him yet but it wouldn't shock me if he was much improved in 2024 and made Detroit's defense better. I just need to see a little more natural instincts and better pass coverage.

10. Campbell is not a bullshitter, which is really helpful when it comes to spring and summer camps and who is actually improving. Jameson Williams got most of the attention with the praised he received but two guys also were mentioned by Campbell as guys he liked in camp. Levi Onwuzurike finally was healthy last year and didn't play a lot or make much on an impact. But his back was healthy all year (remembert he had spinal fusion, not an easy thing to go through) and Campbell pointed out how much better he looked and was moving. The same went with Brodric Martin as well, who admitted he wasn't ready in 2023 but changed his workouts and has been stuck by D.J. Reader's side since Reader was brought in. I don't have a ton of hope in either guy but if one of those can be consistently in the rotation, that really helps Detroit's depth and they do not have to junk up the middle of their defense so much like they have had to do. If Martin especially can be a nice option in the middle so Alim can wreak havoc as a pass rusher, that will free up the EDGE guys as well.
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Great post Z, enjoyed reading.
 
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#6,446
#6,446
zjcvols said:
Ten Lions thoughts on my day off

1. The extensions absolutely had to happen. You see teams (coughDallascough) around the league not get things done and have distractions caused by not locking up your elite players. The Lions have zero to worry about with that. St. Brown is a top 10 WR and already two WR's (with Lamb pending) have already received deals worth more AAV. Sewell is the best RT in football and one of the 3 best OT in the game and he is turning 23. Getting him locked up for six years was massive. I am hoping something gets done with Alim this summer but that could be him wanting to see what the market is. Either way, St. Brown and Sewell are the heartbeat of this elite offense and getting those taken care of early is a win for everyone. Yes, the cap will have to be navigated but that's you have cap specialists. Lock up your core and don't sweat it out.

2. This deserves its own point because of how vital the QB position is. Jared Goff is a top 10 QB right now. Jared Goff played three good to excellent playoff games in a row. The Lions were one bad half of miscues away from making the Super Bowl against a team they already beat. Anybody who believes Goff didn't deserve the extension is downright lying to themselves. What were the options? Move heaven and earth to try and draft J.J. McCarthy? Give the keys to Hendon Hooker? There were zero better options. Yes, you must have an elite OL to make the contract to Goff worth it for the next three years. But you need an elite OL anyways unless you have Patrick Mahomes! And while is was reported as a five year extension, it's actually a three year extension with an out after 2027 (only a $14.6M dead cap hit for 2028). And if Goff plays awesome the next two years they will rework the contract for future relief.

3. The other thing I wanted to point out with Goff is that Holmes played it perfectly. The national media wanted Holmes to get a QB immediately. Instead he played it cool and built a Super Bowl contender. Here were the Lions options year by year since Stafford was traded to "find a franchise QB". Take Justin Fields or Mac Jones in 2021 who are both on new teams already. Take Kenny Pickett in 2022. Try and trade up with Arizona at #3 and take Anthony Richardson (since Carolina and Houston were taking QB's no matter what). If you want to hold it against Holmes for not taking Brock Purdy in 2022 to be Goff's backup that is you prerogative. There was no other move than riding with Goff and giving him an extension. It's simple. You can win a Super Bowl the next two years. Give Goff the money and figure it out later.

4. The secondary is going to be so fascinating to watch. I can see a lot of different scenarios playing out. The only two guarantees is Carlton Davis will play the field CB and Brian Branch will start. After that, it's all fair game. I think the Lions really want Branch to take a safety spot. Joseph is a ball hawk but really struggled in man coverage situations and missed a lot of tackles. Melifonwu really stepped up the last six weeks and could be the starting safety. Amik Robertson can play outside or in. Rakestraw can also. I think it's going to be Davis and Arnold at CB, Robertson as the nickel and then Branch at one safety and either Joseph or Melifonwu. The big key is an injury won't kill them like it did last year. There is plenty of depth unlike the last three years.

5. Listening to Robert Mayes and Bill Barnwell on a podcast talking about the Lions and they brought up how Detroit played so much man the second half of the year due to the lack of pressure outside of Hutchinson and they brought so many more blitzes. This brings me to Aaron Glenn, who I have criticized a lot. Glenn since day 1 has wanted to be a straight up man team and then to bring pressure. He has not had the secondary to do that the last three years. This feels like the time to finally figure out if Glenn's wants can bring results. Davis' injury history is scary but he's a true bump and run cover. Arnold has all the potential in the world to do that as well. Rakestraw was a cover man corner. Part of some of the sack issues have been secondary issues, especially at CB. This year, Glenn is going to be more aggressive than ever. We will see if it pays off or if Glenn's defense continues to give up massive yardage.

6. Something I've concerned myself with (mostly because this team is so well constructed there isn't very many weaknesses) is the age of the OL. Ragnow is 28 but has the inoperable toe and other injuries throughout his career. Taylor Decker is turning 31 and Glasgow is turning 32. Zeitler is 35. Sewell of course is so young and some depth was made by Detroit especially in the interior but I am wondering how long this core will last. They really need Mahogany and Sorsdal to be ready. Sorsdal was a stalwart in camp and Mahogany was projected to be a starter in the NFL before slipping to the 6th round. I'm curious with some of the extra cap space Detroit has if they go find a swing OT after training camp. They have the cap space for it and you know there is always some OL cuts before the regular season. I don't imagine Giovanni Manu is going to be ready and Sorsdal really struggled at RT last year. I love Dan Skipper but that could end at any point as a passable backup OT with his age. The interior of the OL should be fine if any long term injuries occur (barring catastrophe to Ragnow) but if Decker or Sewell miss any significant time it could get ugly quick. I hope Holmes has something up his sleeve in August.

7. Some national media has made a big deal out of Detroit's WR depth and it's somewhat fair. I also believe this group can be even better than last year. Donovan Peoples-Jones is only 25 and in 2022 had 839 yards with Jacoby Brissett/Deshaun Watson throwing to him in a run first offense. I don't know what happened in 2023 (it might have been unable to sync with Watson) but he's a legit physical presence and will have a full offseason in Detroit. The Lions could not stop raving about how Jameson Williams looked in camp and finally has an offseason where he can focus just on football. We saw the playmaking ability throughout 2023. Kalif Raymond is a perfectly solid depth piece. I wish Detroit had been a little more aggressive in the draft to find a WR but I think ARSB/Jamo/DPJ can be an overall top 12 WR group. Plus, Detroit has Sam LaPorta and Jahmyr Gibbs to help facilitate the passing game. And don't forget the $20M or so in cap space Detroit is going into the season with. The rumors of Davonte Adams wanting out of Oakland last year leaking did not seem like an accident. If Oakland is 2-5 next year, could Detroit make a swing with having their 1st and 2nd round picks all intact? It would not shock me.

8. The other pass rusher spot is going to be a fascinating battle. Detroit is going to play just two guys every down in Hutch and McNeill on the DL. Marcus Davenport to me was not an answer considering his injury history and only one truly good season. But I still think Josh Paschal and James Houston can be really good players in the NFL. Paschal has had good moments and I like what he brings inside on third down, but Detroit has a lot of options inside in 2024. I think Paschal needs to focus on being that other DE and try to take over that spot. Houston was never healthy except for week 1. Go watch him against Kansas City and he caused them problems. Either way, Detroit needs something from the other EDGE spot. Hutchinson had too many double teams last year.

9. I was thinking of how draft position can affect perception when it comes to Jack Campbell. Let's just play a pretend game where Brian Branch was the #18 pick and Jack Campbell fell and was the #45 pick in 2023. It would affect what the surrounding narrative around Campbell is. Instead of "they might have screwed that pick up" or "he didn't play like a All-Pro type LB" from 2023, it's instead "Wow they found a guy who received rookie DPOY votes in the second round!" or "Holmes does it again, finding a 95 total tackles, 2 sack, 5 TFL guy at LB at pick #45 in a new position!" Campbell struggled in pass coverage and I wasn't wowed by his sideline-to-sideline ability but he did get better as the year went along. Detroit moved him to MIKE and Anzalone to SAM this year to take advantge of Jack's natural ability and where he's played his whole life. I still don't love him yet but it wouldn't shock me if he was much improved in 2024 and made Detroit's defense better. I just need to see a little more natural instincts and better pass coverage.

10. Campbell is not a bullshitter, which is really helpful when it comes to spring and summer camps and who is actually improving. Jameson Williams got most of the attention with the praised he received but two guys also were mentioned by Campbell as guys he liked in camp. Levi Onwuzurike finally was healthy last year and didn't play a lot or make much on an impact. But his back was healthy all year (remembert he had spinal fusion, not an easy thing to go through) and Campbell pointed out how much better he looked and was moving. The same went with Brodric Martin as well, who admitted he wasn't ready in 2023 but changed his workouts and has been stuck by D.J. Reader's side since Reader was brought in. I don't have a ton of hope in either guy but if one of those can be consistently in the rotation, that really helps Detroit's depth and they do not have to junk up the middle of their defense so much like they have had to do. If Martin especially can be a nice option in the middle so Alim can wreak havoc as a pass rusher, that will free up the EDGE guys as well.
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Thanks zjc great insight as always.
 
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