The Official NFL Lockout Thread

#1

tigervol9802

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#1
As I post, 11 hours and 12 minutes to reach an agreement.

I'm not expecting to see any football played on Sundays in 2011.
 
#2
#2
Schefter says owners are pushing for an extension of talks. Players willing if owners make some concessions
 
#3
#3
Even if they lock out, I can't imagine they won't get something done before the start of the season.....maybe I'm just overly optimistic
 
#10
#10
As I post, 11 hours and 12 minutes to reach an agreement.

I'm not expecting to see any football played on Sundays in 2011.

in all likelihood, the lockout wouldn't last the entire season; you'd most likely just see a shortened season, long enough to still have a super bowl...


though I am curious what the NFL would have to do for the city of Indianapolis if this next Super Bowl were to be cancelled.
 
#12
#12
The owners are not likely to lockout the entire season. They are willing to do it at the start of the season. They are more profitable later in the season and playoffs.
 
#13
#13
well that and the players union would probably cave and just go with owners demands before then....most of the players in the league I don't think are going to be able to keep saying no on issues the further into the year they get without pay
 
#14
#14
also this was interesting from yesterday:

Federal judge sides with union in dispute over NFL TV money - USATODAY.com

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — A federal judge handed NFL players a key ruling Tuesday in their fight to strip the league of $4 billion in TV revenue they contend was unfairly and illegally secured as a way to survive a lockout that could begin by the end of the week.

U.S. District Judge David Doty backed the NFL Players Association in its closely watched fight over the so-called "war chest" of broadcast revenue that the union contends is leverage the NFL is wielding against it in the labor fight.

The NFL's current collective bargaining agreement expires at midnight Eastern time Thursday night.

In his 28-page ruling, Doty criticized special master Stephen Burbank for legal errors and erroneously concluding earlier this month that the NFL can act like a self-interested conglomerate when in fact it is bound by legal agreements to make deals that benefit both league and player.

Doty instead declared that the NFL violated its agreement with the union, which had asked that the TV money be placed in escrow until the end of any lockout. A hearing, yet to be scheduled, will be held to determine potential damages for the players as well as an injunction involving the TV contracts.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello downplayed the significance of the ruling, saying the 32 teams were "prepared for any contingency."

"Today's ruling will have no effect on our efforts to negotiate a new, balanced labor agreement," Aiello said. He told The Associated Press that the NFL had not immediately determined whether it would appeal.

The case, however, has billions at stake.

The union accused the NFL of failing to secure the maximum revenue possible when it restructured broadcast contracts in 2009 and 2010, and claimed the deals were designed to guarantee owners enough money to survive a lockout. The union argued this violated an agreement between the sides that says the NFL must make good-faith efforts to maximize revenue for players.

Doty agreed.

"The record shows that the NFL undertook contract renegotiations to advance its own interests and harm the interests of the players," wrote the judge, who has overseen NFL labor issues since he presided over the 1993 decision that cleared the way for the current free agency system.

Doty cited an NFL "Decision Tree" as a "glaring example" of the league's intent, and quoted from it: "Moving forward with a deal depended on the answer to the questions: 'Does Deal Completion Advance CBA Negotiating Dynamics?' If yes, the NFL should 'Do Deal Now'; if no, the NFL should 'Deal When Opportune.'"

Said George Atallah, the NFLPA's assistant executive director for external affairs: "This ruling means there is irrefutable evidence that owners had a premeditated plan to lock out players and fans for more than two years. The players want to play football. That is the only goal we are focused on."

The NFL has described the $4 billion as a loan that the league eventually would need to repay — or make up to — the networks, with interest. Doty said $421 million of the total would have been guaranteed without repayment.

In his ruling, the judge also revealed previously confidential details of NFL TV contracts and said that the NFL "consistently characterized gaining control over labor as a short-term objective and maximizing revenue as a long-term objective ... advancing its negotiating position at the expense of using best efforts to maximize total revenues for the joint benefit of the NFL and the Players."

He suggested that the NFL had acquired vast negotiating power and pointed to an unidentified network executive's comment from the case.

"(Y)ou know you've reached the absolute limits of your power as a major network ... (when) the commissioner of the National Football League calls you ... and says ... (w)e're done, pay this or move on .... (the NFL has) market power like no one else, and at a certain point in time, they'll tell you to pack it up or pay the piper," the executive said.

Doty said at least three networks expressed "some degree of resistance to the lockout payments"; that the NFL "characterized network opposition to lockout provisions to be a deal breaker"; and that DirecTV "would have considered paying more in 2009-2010 'to have (the work-stoppage provision) go away.'"

The decision revealed that DirecTV, in fact, would pay up to 9% more to the NFL if no games are played in 2011. And of the total amount payable if there is a canceled season, 42% of DirecTV's fee is nonrefundable.

Under the CBS and Fox contracts set to expire at the end of the 2011 season, the NFL would have been required to repay CBS and Fox that same year if there were a work stoppage. Under the contracts extended to the 2013 season, the NFL will repay the funds, plus money-market interest, over the term of the contract, Doty wrote. And if the season is canceled, the contracts would be extended another season.

NBC's contract through the 2011 season contained the same work-stoppage provisions as the CBS and Fox contracts, according to Doty.

He wrote that during extension negotiations, NBC felt the NFL was "hosing" the network by its demands. To "bridge the gap," the league agreed to award NBC an additional regular-season game for the 2010-2013 seasons. The NFL did not seek additional rights fees for the 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons, and NBC agreed to pay increased rights fees for 2012 and 2013.

Although ESPN's contract was not set to expire until 2013, the work-stoppage provision was amended. In the negotiations, ESPN requested that the rights fee not be payable if there is a work stoppage, but the NFL rejected the request. Doty wrote: "The NFL stated that the digital deal and the work-stoppage provisions were 'linked,' ... To secure ESPN's agreement to the work-stoppage provision, the NFL granted the right to a Monday Night Football simulator via the wireless partner."

NFL lawyers argued that the league used sound business judgment to maximize revenue for both sides to share, but Doty wrote in his ruling that the NFL enhanced "long-term interests at the expense of its present obligations."

Indianapolis Colts center Jeff Saturday (FSY), a member of the NFLPA's executive committee, said the ruling was a "really good reversal."

"I'm not sure what all that means, as of yet," Saturday told The Associated Press as he left Tuesday's mediation session in Washington. "We haven't been debriefed. We just got the news when we were in the meeting, so I'm sure we'll hear more tonight. But it sounds very favorable."

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


If I'm reading that correctly, the judge ruled that the owners don't get that "in case of no season" $4 billion
 
#15
#15
If I'm reading that correctly, the judge ruled that the owners don't get that "in case of no season" $4 billion

You are. That is a huge thing for the players. They will still be under more pressure when they aren't receiving their game checks but now they won't be the only ones. The Jones', Snyder's, Kraft's etc. of the owners world will still be just fine but I heard it speculated somewhere (maybe Lombardi?) that this decision could put about 1/3 of the owners in an uncomfortable position.
 
#17
#17
NFLPA questions NFL's desire to negotiate before extension deadline - NFL - SI.com

WASHINGTON -- You can't say the collective bargaining talks between the NFL's owners and players broke down on Thursday, because there were no discussions between the primary parties.

Although their respective attorneys and some players met, the owners did not sit down with the players or union officials.

"We were told we were going to be meeting with the owners at 4 o'clock," said George Atallah, the union's assistant executive director of external affairs. "It is now 6:15, and we just received word that the owners broke for dinner without any formal bargaining or negotiating sessions today between players and owners. We're disappointed. We were -- as we have been for the last two years -- prepared to negotiate. Instead, we were stuck here waiting. This is a $9 billion business. The players shouldn't have to be treated like this, and the fans shouldn't be kept waiting, either."


The league's collective bargaining agreement is set to expire Friday at 11:59 p.m. EST. There was hope the sides would lock themselves behind closed doors in hopes of bridging an $800 million annual gap in how revenues should be allocated between the owners and players, yet there was no movement despite all but one owner on the league's labor committee being in attendance.


"It's up to (federal mediator) George Cohen as to when the sides meet," said Greg Aiello, NFL senior vice president of public affairs. "He goes back and forth between the groups. When he thinks there's a reason to bring the sides together, he does so. We have to follow Mr. Cohen's lead. There were meetings with the union today. Our people were in the building from 9:30 a.m. ... If Mr. Cohen calls and says get back here tonight, we'll be there."

Cohen's decision not to bring the owners into the mix could be perceived as ominous for negotiations, which were extended twice last week. If the sides do not come to a deal before tomorrow afternoon, the players' association is expected to decertify its union and sue the league for antitrust violations if the owners lock out the players, as expected.

As if the day was not strange enough, verbal and Twitter sparring matches broke out between after the sun went down. It started with NFL executive vice president of labor/league counsel Jeff Pash telling the media: "If both sides have an equal commitment to getting this deal done, it will get done. I don't know if both sides have an equal commitment."

Union executive director DeMaurice Smith, who was headed home, heard the comments and had his driver detour back to the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service building, where the media were camped out. He wanted to reiterate the players' commitment to getting a deal done.

Smith also released a document obtained from the discovery process in the union's court case to block the league's access to $4 billion in television revenue during a lockout in 2011.

"(The document) talks about how they were going to go about securing television money for 'cash during a lockout,'" Smith said. "So with all due respect, when someone wants to stand up and say that he questions or doubts one party's commitment to the negotiation process, all I would ask is for all of you, everybody who has an obligation to the people who love this game and the players who dig this game, stick to the facts. ... We're going to be back here tomorrow because we want football to continue."

Later on, Atallah and Aiello faced off on Twitter.

Atallah: "I would like to request an expense credit from the owners on the last 3 hours of my life."

After, during a session with the media, Atallah continued: "If owners continue to question players' commitment to negotiations, we're prepared to make public all our unanswered proposals."

That comment was tweeted by a reporter, prompting Aiello to respond: "That won't take long."

Aiello added: "While George is at it, ask him when is the union going to respond to our 150 pages of draft CBA provisions that they received eight days ago. Waiting."

Negotiations resume Friday, at which time the owners are expected to put an 18-game schedule on the table. Smith said Wednesday night during a fan event that the union will not sign off on an expanded regular season. He reiterated that later in the evening to SI.com, saying "It's something that our players don't want. Eighteen games is not in the best interest of our players' safety, so we're not doing it."
 
#19
#19
Well this sucks, looks like it's going to drag on well into the summer, maybe no football at all next year. That would be f'd up.
 
#21
#21
Well this sucks, looks like it's going to drag on well into the summer, maybe no football at all next year. That would be f'd up.

it won't likely end up lasting for a whole year....most of the not extremely wealthy half can't go as long without salary (which, when owners do lock outs, is what they're counting on i believe)
 
#22
#22
we should know what's going to happen in an hour. If the union is going to decertify, it has to be done by 5 pm
 
#23
#23
Source: NFLPA's DeMaurice Smith cites decertification - ESPN

The groups representing the NFL's owners and union continued to negotiate in Washington late Friday afternoon with a 5 p.m. ET deadline for the NFLPA to decertify fast approaching.

Union chief DeMaurice Smith told players during a conference call earlier in the day the the plan was to decertify, a source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

But the deadline left the union's group time to alter its stance or change its thinking as the sides met at a federal mediator's office for a 16th day of talks. The league's collective bargaining agreement was set to expire at the end of the day.

The NFL made a last-ditch proposal to the NFLPA Friday, but the NFLPA did not come back with a prompt counterproposal, a source familiar with talks told Schefter.


New Orleans Saints quarterback Drew Brees rejoined the talks Friday, reiterating the union's desire for the NFL owners to open their books.

Brees was among a group of about 20 people, including Smith, who walked over from the union's nearby headquarters. Brees and Smith were flanked by several other current or former players.

"To our fans -- I give you my word that we as players are doing everything we can to negotiate with the NFL towards a fair deal," Brees tweeted before the start of Friday's meetings. "The NFL brought this fight to us -- they want $1 billion back, we just want financial information to back up that request."

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and nine of the 10 members of the owners' labor committee, along with various league executives and lawyers, also arrived as talks resumed at 10 a.m. ET.


The NFL has said the union was offered unprecedented financial data, including some the league doesn't share with clubs. The league thought it was the first step in the beginning of financial transparency, but it was not transparent enough for the NFLPA.

"They refuse to give that information to us. They think we should just trust them. Would you?" tweeted Brees, who joined talks for the first time Wednesday. "We have a responsibility to our players -- past, present, and future, to advance this league forward, not take 3 steps back."


Smith was to provide players with an update at 2 p.m. ET Friday.

"We're going to head inside today, try to get some work done," Smith said.

Said lead NFL negotiator Jeff Pash: "We'll do our best."

Though there were small-group talks between NFL and union representatives Thursday, no one gave any indication that progress was made. The CBA originally was supposed to expire last week. The sides agreed to push that deadline to Friday; if a deal isn't reached, there could be another extension.

The owners conducted a 90-minute conference call Thursday afternoon in which Pash debriefed them on what has happened since the owners met last Wednesday in Virginia, a league source told Schefter.

The source said it was a matter-of-fact conference call, with owners in complete agreement about the direction in which they are headed.


The message to Pash and Goodell at the end of the call was, "Do what you have to do and we support you," according to the source.

What sounded more likely, given Thursday's tone, was that talks could break off, leading to a lockout by owners or decertification by the union, followed by antitrust lawsuits by players -- actions that could threaten the 2011 season.
 
#24
#24
Just looking through twitter, looks like the Union has decided to certify, its a court battle now. Once it goes into the courts the owners will lose, book it.
 
#25
#25
NFLN is now pressing the pause button on dissolving, either get a deal done, get an extension, or take it to the courts. Stop playing all these pointless mind games.
 

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