The Official NFL Lockout Thread

#77
#77
NFL labor negotiation situation shouldn't be a surprise - Don Banks - SI.com

Here's wishing they would have saved us all some time and skipped the explanations of what went wrong, or why things broke down once again. I really didn't need to hear from either NFL lead negotiator Jeff Pash or union head DeMaurice Smith today, telling us how very hard they worked and how they did everything in their power to try to find common ground and the path to get something accomplished in the NFL's going-nowhere labor negotiations.

Blah, blah, blah. We know none of that is really true. Both sides in this league-versus-players stand-off only did what they wanted to do and what they were willing to do. Nothing more. The rest is just spin and trying to keep the upper hand in the public relations battle. And the blame game is beyond tiresome at this point.


The NFL doesn't have labor peace today, and after more than three weeks of mediation talks in downtown Washington, D.C., both sides still appear to be headed down the road that will assure the most possible damage: Decertification and litigation by the union, a likely lockout and responding litigation by the owners. That is where this multi-billion-dollar melodrama has seemed destined to wind up all along. Even if both sides kept blabbering on about how bad they feel for NFL fans, and how much they only desire to protect the future of the game.

Transparency has been the big topic of the week in these negotiations, so here's some for you, in news flash form: What the league and its players are both trying to protect is as much of the NFL's $9.3 billion of revenue as possible. Nothing more. Nothing less. We all like money, so on some level we can relate to that. But we also like our football, and that's the part both sides seem more than willing to play with, even at the risk of doing harm to the game and to those people who watch it and make it so wildly popular.

And no matter what they say, or how much they spin, both sides are willing to take that risk and possibly inflict that damage because of the obscene amount of money that's at stake. They do so even while talking ever so respectfully about the NFL and the fans who have exalted it to such a special and cherished place in our society.

Let's not let our perspective get clouded by all the back-and-forth rhetoric we've heard over the past several months. No player or owner is going to lose their shirts in this deal. Only the people like those on a team's support staff, or the stadium workers who rely on the NFL season for a huge chunk of their annual income might experience dire financial consequences from what's ahead. In other words, the people who are the most dependent upon the game.

It may not be millionaires fighting against billionaires in every case, but it is the rich against the richer, and if you don't buy that, then I guess you make considerably more than the $320,000 minimum salary that an NFL rookie was paid in 2010. Players and owners both largely live their lives on the inside of the velvet rope line, and that type of star treatment does tend to warp one's real-life perspective.

Just last week, I was left speechless when I heard of Chiefs guard Brian Waters' plans to start an emergency fund to help the younger, fringe NFL players who would be "most vulnerable'' if a lockout starts eating away into the 2011 regular-season game checks. Waters said some young players make ends meet by counting on those offseason workout checks and training camp stipends that teams pay out, and he wants the game's highest-paid players to pitch in and help subsidize them if a lockout lingers.

Really? Does Waters or any other NFL player really believe that the vast amount of working Americans can relate to or feel sympathy for pro athletes making more than $300,000 annually, but who need help paying for "health care and day-to-day expenses,'' as Waters put it? Because given the very real union battles that are being fought around this country these days, for a lot less money than that, I don't know how much the plight of financially strapped second- and third-year NFL veterans is really going to resonate with the public.

But to hear Drew Brees and some other NFL players tell it, their efforts are straight out of "Norma Rae,'' fighting against management for the good of the little guy and on behalf of a union that has been aggrieved over the years. Spare us. The reality in the NFL is both sides hit the jackpot quite a while ago, and the league generates more than enough revenue to make everyone happy. But now no one's happy. That's called irony.

As for the NFL owners, I'll start by pointing out what one longtime league executive reminded me of as recently as two weeks ago in Indianapolis: "Those guys are crazy.'' Amen to that. Most NFL owners have been believing in their own hype and a personal sense of entitlement for so long that they're actually convinced everything they touch should turn to gold.

Some of the folks who own NFL teams have gotten their way so many times that they think it's their default setting in this world. New stadium in a community that really can't afford it? No problem. Milking every last available dollar -- and then some -- out of the TV networks, corporate sponsors and the fans? That's just the way they roll. When you own the most popular game in town, everybody wants a piece of what you're selling.

Little wonder then that there's a lack of trust between these enemy camps. When you know you're right, it's the other guy who has to be wrong. I suspect some owners, with their deep pockets, think they're really what makes the game go in the NFL. As for the players, well, they absolutely know they are the reason for the success of pro football. All that stuff about being equal partners? That was so pre-2008. Maybe not even Paul Tagliabue and Gene Upshaw really ever bought into that phony baloney.

So now the players aren't going to play, and the owners aren't going to pay, and they're both expending plenty of energy trying to convince us that all the fault for this labor predicament should be aimed at the other side.

To that I say, blah, blah, blah. Oh, and from here on out, do us a favor and save your breath, please.
There's plenty of blame to go around in this high-stakes money grab, but whenever it ends, I predict both the owners and the players will still be winners in the grand scheme of things. Call it a hunch.

As for the fans, both sides said they were thinking of you, but I'm guessing it's kind of hard to feel the love right now. The players have taken the big, bold steps they see fit, and the owners will soon follow suit. The fans get to do something, too, but it's not quite as empowering. They get to wait to see what happens next. After all, it's what they do best. You can bet both the owners and players are counting on exactly that.
 
#78
#78
Railroaded into a bad deal?

Yeah man... having the God given talent to make millions of dollars is freaking awful.

It must suck having the choice to throw away a free education that you didn't deserve in the first place.

They may have a small window to make millions of dollars a year, but most people will never make a million dollars in a year. Why are you sympathizing with these uneducated retards?

Let's say the average player makes 20 million a decade. That's a salary of $200,000 a year for 100 years. Oh, the humanity!

Because a couple of them get hurt, all of them deserve more money? How about they buy some freaking insurance. Pretty sure Sam Bradford or Colt McCoy were able to take out a 1 or 2 million dollar insurance policy. Their parents probably make nowhere near the money an NFL player does. Why can't an NFL player afford insurance?

I'm glad the owners aren't budging. Sure, they are greedy too. At least they are educated and made their money doing a real job. These players act like they became billionaires become of them. They don't need these players. These players definitely need them though. Let them form their own league if they think they are special. Then who is going to pay their salary?

Let em' go to the UFL or Arena Football. Then they can make 200 bucks a game.

I see your still way out in left field.
 
#79
#79
And the owners not wanting to open their books only says one thing to me: They have a lot more money than they're willing to tell the NFLPA about.

Either that or the owners are laundering a lot of money through their team and they don't want anyone to know about it.
 
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#80
#80
I was listening to the local sports business show this morning and they said the primary reason the owners didn't want to open the books is so that owners didn't have to divulge their financial info to other owners... I suppose I can buy that.
 
#82
#82
I see your still way out in left field.

I'm not the only one that feels this way. The general consensus on ESPN seems to be that the players are stupid. A lot of them need those paychecks for their 10 million dollar mansions and 100,000 dollar cars. It's not a party if you can't throw 50k at a stripper or spend 10k on booze! The ball is in the owners court and the players are going to cave first.

I think both sides are selfish and that this whole thing is pathetic. It is what it is though and this is going to hurt the players more than the owners. That's just a fact.



Report: Owners saved for lockout
NFL owners have enough money saved to carry them through a lost 2011 season -- even without the so called "lockout insurance" television rights revenues that might not be available after being successfully challenged in court by the locked-out players, The Wall Street Journal reported Monday.

vs.

Philadelphia Eagles' Brandon Graham: Teammates ask for $100K
“100K,” said Graham, who just finished his first season in the league, when asked how much is the most players have asked to borrow from him.

“I’ll be like, ‘What are you going to do with it, other than blow it?’ I don’t want to be beefing with guys on my team because they owe me money,” Graham said.



Players are already asking a rookie to borrow money and even he knows they are going to piss it down the drain. Advantage: Owners.

Blackmail works a little better when you actually have leverage. The players went all in while holding a pair of 2's and the owners are calling their bluff. I'm not sure where it went wrong for the players but I'm guessing it was about the time that they demanded more money, refused to come to work and threatened to sue. I don't know about you, but that wouldn't win me over either. I'd wish them luck in suing me for money that I never owed them or promised them in the first place. Aside from minimum wage, nobody can tell an owner how much to pay their employees. Doesn't work that way. End of discussion on my part.
 
#83
#83
Oh the humanity, someone asked for a loan

Your posts are borderline racist

Hope you like watching Lingerie Football
 
#84
#84
I'm not the only one that feels this way. The general consensus on ESPN seems to be that the players are stupid. A lot of them need those paychecks for their 10 million dollar mansions and 100,000 dollar cars. It's not a party if you can't throw 50k at a stripper or spend 10k on booze! The ball is in the owners court and the players are going to cave first.

I think both sides are selfish and that this whole thing is pathetic. It is what it is though and this is going to hurt the players more than the owners. That's just a fact.



Report: Owners saved for lockout


vs.

Philadelphia Eagles' Brandon Graham: Teammates ask for $100K




Players are already asking a rookie to borrow money and even he knows they are going to piss it down the drain. Advantage: Owners.

Blackmail works a little better when you actually have leverage. The players went all in while holding a pair of 2's and the owners are calling their bluff. I'm not sure where it went wrong for the players but I'm guessing it was about the time that they demanded more money, refused to come to work and threatened to sue. I don't know about you, but that wouldn't win me over either. I'd wish them luck in suing me for money that I never owed them or promised them in the first place. Aside from minimum wage, nobody can tell an owner how much to pay their employees. Doesn't work that way. End of discussion on my part.

it's not a strike
 
#85
#85
Care to explain why this is way out in left field?


The Orange Pearl is on a rant because he's jealous that athletes make millions.

The athletes are in the top 1% of their field. They should make millions. Most people in the top 1% of their given profession can pretty much name their price.

He's completely missing the point on the health issue. The veterans that made $70,000 aren't just going to go in and get affordable health coverage due to the fact they have beaten their bodies and are 50 or 60 years old.

NFL teams should have people in place to help out the athletes in regards to health insurance. A lot of these guys come from nothing, go to college, still don't have a damn clue how to get health insurance etc and then get thrown a ton of money.
 
#86
#86
I'm not the only one that feels this way. The general consensus on ESPN seems to be that the players are stupid. A lot of them need those paychecks for their 10 million dollar mansions and 100,000 dollar cars. It's not a party if you can't throw 50k at a stripper or spend 10k on booze! The ball is in the owners court and the players are going to cave first.

I think both sides are selfish and that this whole thing is pathetic. It is what it is though and this is going to hurt the players more than the owners. That's just a fact.



Report: Owners saved for lockout


vs.

Philadelphia Eagles' Brandon Graham: Teammates ask for $100K




Players are already asking a rookie to borrow money and even he knows they are going to piss it down the drain. Advantage: Owners.

Blackmail works a little better when you actually have leverage. The players went all in while holding a pair of 2's and the owners are calling their bluff. I'm not sure where it went wrong for the players but I'm guessing it was about the time that they demanded more money, refused to come to work and threatened to sue. I don't know about you, but that wouldn't win me over either. I'd wish them luck in suing me for money that I never owed them or promised them in the first place. Aside from minimum wage, nobody can tell an owner how much to pay their employees. Doesn't work that way. End of discussion on my part.

That's part of the problem. Guys have been in the league for 5, 6 years and haven't made the money that 1st round picks make as a signing bonus.

It hasn't went wrong for the players.

That never happened. You apparently don't know the difference between a "lockout" and a "strike"
 
#87
#87
The Orange Pearl is on a rant because he's jealous that athletes make millions.

The athletes are in the top 1% of their field. They should make millions. Most people in the top 1% of their given profession can pretty much name their price.

He's completely missing the point on the health issue. The veterans that made $70,000 aren't just going to go in and get affordable health coverage due to the fact they have beaten their bodies and are 50 or 60 years old.

NFL teams should have people in place to help out the athletes in regards to health insurance. A lot of these guys come from nothing, go to college, still don't have a damn clue how to get health insurance etc and then get thrown a ton of money.

I can see the older players having a problem. The guys that are now 60-70 years old. But in the modern era, these guys either are too stupid, too greedy or too selfish to manage their money correctly. Given what even a rookie makes he should be able to manage. He did get a free education. Not anybody's fault but his own if he didn't bother to put that free ride to use.Yeah, a career ending injury to a guy not making millions changes things. But were they not aware of that possibility when they signed the contract? What exactly do they have agents for? Ever hear of an accountant? I feel zero pity for the current players or the owners. They are all a collective bunch of whining spoiled brats who created this mess by A: asking for a bazillion dollars a season when they haven't even played a down in the NFL, and B: paying them that bazillion dollars a season when they haven't even played a down in the NFL.Both sides have screwed themselves by being greedy and guess who really gets the shaft? The fans. Who exactly pays the salary of everybody involved with the entire world of pro sports? Joe *BLEEPING* Fan. WE should lock THEM out.
 
#88
#88
So what about a punter who makes $250K BEFORE taxes who punts a ball 200 times a day 365 days a week and then is booted off the team after two years and at the age of 40 needs a new hip?

What about a long snapper who gets spit out of the league after 2 years and now cant get out of bed due to back pain?

What about someone like Arron Sears? Plays two years in the NFL and then gets sent to the mental ward because he had a serious concussion and is now mentally unstable. I bet he didnt even clear $500K in 2 years after taxes.

Those guys should just suck it up right? Since they are spoiled brats?
 
#89
#89
I can see the older players having a problem. The guys that are now 60-70 years old. But in the modern era, these guys either are too stupid, too greedy or too selfish to manage their money correctly. Given what even a rookie makes he should be able to manage. He did get a free education. Not anybody's fault but his own if he didn't bother to put that free ride to use.Yeah, a career ending injury to a guy not making millions changes things. But were they not aware of that possibility when they signed the contract? What exactly do they have agents for? Ever hear of an accountant? I feel zero pity for the current players or the owners. They are all a collective bunch of whining spoiled brats who created this mess by A: asking for a bazillion dollars a season when they haven't even played a down in the NFL, and B: paying them that bazillion dollars a season when they haven't even played a down in the NFL.Both sides have screwed themselves by being greedy and guess who really gets the shaft? The fans. Who exactly pays the salary of everybody involved with the entire world of pro sports? Joe *BLEEPING* Fan. WE should lock THEM out.

Jealous much?

Don't watch and you don't pay their salaries.
 
#90
#90
So what about a punter who makes $250K BEFORE taxes who punts a ball 200 times a day 365 days a week and then is booted off the team after two years and at the age of 40 needs a new hip?

What about a long snapper who gets spit out of the league after 2 years and now cant get out of bed due to back pain?

What about someone like Arron Sears? Plays two years in the NFL and then gets sent to the mental ward because he had a serious concussion and is now mentally unstable. I bet he didnt even clear $500K in 2 years after taxes.

Those guys should just suck it up right? Since they are spoiled brats?

But they got a free education (where they were herded into the easiest majors on campus so they could be eligible)
 
#91
#91
So what about a punter who makes $250K BEFORE taxes who punts a ball 200 times a day 365 days a week and then is booted off the team after two years and at the age of 40 needs a new hip?

What about a long snapper who gets spit out of the league after 2 years and now cant get out of bed due to back pain?

What about someone like Arron Sears? Plays two years in the NFL and then gets sent to the mental ward because he had a serious concussion and is now mentally unstable. I bet he didnt even clear $500K in 2 years after taxes.

Those guys should just suck it up right? Since they are spoiled brats?

So what did said punter do for the 12 or so years after he was booted off the team? Sit on his tail? If he had any sense (or self pride) he got a job and does what every other working person would do in his situation. Same for the long snapper. These guys KNOW what they are getting into. They all think when they get that scholarship they will be the next multi-millionaire in the NFL. They don't plan for anything. If an actress can take out an insurance policy on her fanny, these guys can get one on themselves too. They don't use their brains. If you play pro sports, you should be prepared for the fact that any play could not only be your last, but could also be the last time you walk or even breathe. Plan for the worst.
And no, I'm not jealous. I work every day, I raise my family, and I don't need 12 Ferrari's or a 17 room mansion with 5 pools. Neither do these guys. They get a contract and immediately go on a spending spree. Ignoring everything they have been told from day one. Yes, they got a free education and were "herded into the easiest majors on campus". Because most are too dumb to pass even those classes. Great athletes are so pampered by everyone because of their gifts that they don't have to adhere to what everyone else does. Had I not made grades, I wouldn't have gotten a scholarship, a degree, nor a job not using my back. These guys do. Yes, they work out every day and train hard. It's part of their job to be in top physical condition. If it was part of your job, you would too. If I knew that a requirement for my job was to be able to run a 4.4 40 and bench 250 lbs for 20 reps on a weekly basis, I would either be out of that job or a workout madman. These men chose their profession. They could have taken other routes. They chose to take a shot at the huge money. I don't blame them. Where I see them going wrong is assuming the odds were in their favor. Assuming they wouldn't need that free education. Reality. Look into it. Society deems athletes to be deserving of praise, wealth, fame, and status. Nobody "deserves" anything. You earn it. Because you can run a slant, catch a ball and run a 4.3 40 doesn't make you a better man than me. It makes you bigger, faster and stronger. It doesn't guarantee you anything. You don't deserve anything more than I do for being a computer nerd. If your boss chooses to pay you 5 mil a season, so be it. Good for you. You made the big payday. But don't whine to me because you were too stupid/selfish/naive to plan for when you can't play anymore. The day will come for me when I am unable to do my job, and it is up to me to prepare for it. It isn't my boss' fault if I can't make it after I no longer am able to work. If I get injured on the job, I have legal avenues I can take. So do pro athletes.
 
#92
#92
Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson is so frustrated by the failed labor talks that he went as far as calling the NFL "modern-day slavery" in an interview with Yahoo! Sports last Friday shortly after the union decertified.

"It's modern-day slavery, you know? People kind of laugh at that, but there are people working at regular jobs who get treated the same way, too. With all the money ... the owners are trying to get a different percentage, and bring in more money. I understand that; these are business-minded people. Of course this is what they are going to want to do. I understand that; it's how they got to where they are now. But as players, we have to stand our ground and say, 'Hey -- without us, there's no football,' " he said.


And this is why I think the players are stupid. I don't sympathize with people who equate making millions of dollars to "modern day slavery".

Hey, Adrian Peterson... guess what? You say, "There is no football without you". Do you know what I say? You'd be in prison with your father if you weren't overpaid to lift weights and run around holding a football. How do you feel about that comment? Dip****.
 
#93
#93
Adding to that. He says himself that people at other jobs are treated that way. Guess what? It's not just other people, it's everyone! They just don't b**** and cry about it. Unless you own your own business, shut up and do your job. Or... go somewhere else. Go ahead guys, go play Canadian football. I'm sure you'll love your new salaries.
 
#94
#94
Adding to that. He says himself that people at other jobs are treated that way. Guess what? It's not just other people. It's everyone! Unless you own your own business, **** and do your job. Or... go somewhere else. Go ahead guys... go play Canadian football ya morons.

+1

Alternate freaking universe we are exploring..They all, both sides, have no real grip.
 
#95
#95
+1

Alternate freaking universe we are exploring..They all, both sides, have no real grip.

Agreed. The owners are greedy but it's no different than any other business. Walmart and McDonalds are raking in the cash while they pay their employees minimum wage. If their wages were based on profits, employees would be making triple their wage. Just makes the players look even more greedy. They already make more money than most. Now, they think they deserve half ownership for the most part. Get real...
 
#96
#96
Very simplistic view. People dont fill 90K stadiums to watch a HS dropout flip burgers. I dont pay $250 a year to DirecTV to watch a Walmart person stock shelves
 
#97
#97
I'm trying to get my head around this whole thing and I appreciate many of the posts in this thread. The owners are just that, owners. The players are the most highly paid of a long list of employees that the owners are responsible for paying.

The owners are the folks that have to find the funding for stadiums and parking garages, licensing etc...Still it's hard to sympathize with the likes of Jerry Jones. Maybe some of the owners are in fact losing money, who knows. The truth is an owner that is losing money has options not the least of which is to claim a HUGE loss on his taxes. Trade your 1st round pick for cash or simply to get more picks in later rounds and avoid the salary of a top 10 pick. Increase prices. ETC...

The players are the face of the NFL. So when Manning, Brady, and Brees file a suit against the NFL I tend to want to buy what they are selling. I mean IF these guys say it's so, it must be so, right? Bologna! Peyton Manning makes more money from his off the field endorsements than for the touchdowns he throws, same with the rest. If the wealthiest of the players want to help the retired players they certainly can and they should. Coaches too, and the owners as well.

I heard the other day that the NFLPA, now decertified, has asked the upcoming top 25 draftees to snub their draft day invitation. That's pretty interesting. Let me see if I got this right...The NFL players, the same ones trying to negotiate money away from rookies, are asking them to also give up one of the coolest moments in a football players life. Meanwhile, we the fans, with only the draft to look forward to, will miss out on the reaction, the joy or agony, that makes the event great. Thanks!

Though I'm sure this is far more complex, I find it hard to find any sympathy for either side. Seems to me, everyone involved could have a reality check. How much money is enough? The fact that some grown men may not manage their money well or their lifestyle is not the problem of the employer. The guys making the minimum are doing fine too, I mean they can afford excellent insurance, a house, a car and if it all ends tomorrow they should have socked a bit away. Enough to tide them over til they start a real estate co. or an auto dealership back in their college town. The free agent that gets cut gets a head start in life that not most 22 year olds get...

The whole thing is beyond ridiculous. Both sides should be ashamed, JMO.
 
#99
#99
Very simplistic view. People dont fill 90K stadiums to watch a HS dropout flip burgers. I dont pay $250 a year to DirecTV to watch a Walmart person stock shelves

But you are fine with the million dollar athlete not being able to read or write? Or fine that he's too stupid to understand a simple concept like putting a chunk of money away for after football? Or that they are so narcissistic they really believe that it's the coach's fault that they are riding the bench as an undrafted free agent rookie playing for minimum because they KNOW they are better than whoever is starting. I appreciate guys who do their best to live the dream. But reality WILL set in. The owners are just as spoiled. You see it every year. They ruthlessly cut roster spots because of salary issues. They overpay and overcharge to compensate. The fan is getting jammed over it. And yet we still turn on the TV, pack the stadium and buy the gear. I would love to see every team play in front of an empty stadium this year. I love NFL football. But I am disgusted by what it has become. You can't hit hard. That's a penalty AND a fine. You can't celebrate a big play. You can't honor your contract because you had a big year and clearly you are worth 10 times that contract's amount. Bullbleep. Grow up.
 
I heard the other day that the NFLPA, now decertified, has asked the upcoming top 25 draftees to snub their draft day invitation. That's pretty interesting. Let me see if I got this right...The NFL players, the same ones trying to negotiate money away from rookies, are asking them to also give up one of the coolest moments in a football players life. Meanwhile, we the fans, with only the draft to look forward to, will miss out on the reaction, the joy or agony, that makes the event great. Thanks!

Ridiculous that they would ask the draftees not to attend. Petty as hell.
 

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