The Official Obama HealthCare Summit Thread

#176
#176
bam15 said:
but people should not die/suffer because they cannot afford health insurance and/or denied because of preexisting conditions.
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Obviously the uninsured are subject to financial ruin, but I'm not sure how many are actually denied care because of it.
 
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#177
#177
GAVol said:
Obviously the uninsured are subject to financial ruin, but I'm not sure how many are actually denied care because of it.
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Yes... this happens. Life expectancy has increased due to better medicine/healthcare. If you don't have access to that medicine/healthcare, your life isn't going to last as long, i would think
 
#179
#179
GAVol said:
Obviously the uninsured are subject to financial ruin, but I'm not sure how many are actually denied care because of it.
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I you are shot or having a heart attack and go to any ER you will not be denied treatment based on if you can afford it or not. However if you show up to the ER with a fever and can't afford the doctor bill you should be sent packing.
 
#180
#180
As the plane that is health care plummets to the ground, the Democrats are trying to convert the plane into a glider while the Republicans are evenly divided between those fighting over the few remaining parachutes and those complaining that the effort to make it a glider is stupid.
 
#181
#181
Here's my thoughts on the whole system.

Health care is a service rendered by one party to another. Those that deny that precept are saying that everyone has rights to anyone's work regardless of the ability to pay. Example I build a house and you decide it is your right to occupy that house regardless of the fact that you can't afford the monthly payments. You have just taken my work and my labor for nothing based upon your 'need'.

Now I am a pharmaceutical company and I find the cure to prostate cancer. It took me 23 years and $500 million to come upon this breakthrough. I decide to sell my medicine for $300 a pill with the hopes of breaking even on my investment in 12 years. You have prostate cancer and decide that it is your right to have the medicine for free because you can't afford $300 a pill my business be damned. Never mind the fact that the sole reason I went into pharmaceuticals was to make money. Saving lives was only the means to that end. You say that my company preys upon the sick and the poor never realizing that if I never looked to make a profit the drug would never have come around in the first place.

Now I am an insurance company. I go into business to make a profit. I charge families $300 a month for comprehensive coverage. A family of 4 goes to a doctor once a year for an average doctor's bill of $150 a person I come out ahead, but other customers are undergoing surgery, expensive surgery, and I insure those families for a lost. In fact based on premiums alone, my insurance company loses massive amounts of money. My balance sheet is so far in the red I won't last a year based on premiums alone. I decide that in order to make a profit while keeping rates competitive I invest the premiums in stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. That's the only way I can insure people who pay $300 a month and have $60,000 surgeries and procedures. You decide that you want health insurance and you buy from me. After staying with my insurance company for 2 years you are discovered to have cancer. The doctors caught it in time and you have surgery that costs $30,000. To this point you have paid me $6400 (2 years of premiums) plus copays to reap $30,000+ in benefits. Looks like the insurance paid off for you. I decide to raise rates to $350 a month the investments are a little down and a lot of my customers have had surgery and I still want to make a profit. That's why I'm in this business remember? You decide you can't afford the new rates and scream and yell at me for making "obscene profits" my company made $300 million a 4% profit margin. I am now the evil one for giving you $30,000 in benefits at a price tag of $6,400 from you. You made a 460% return on your investment and I'm the evil one?

Take a look at what you are getting. Sure the system can use improvements. If we simply introduced competition across state lines consumers would instantly have hundreds of new companies to compare prices and plans with, but at the end of the day the consumer is getting a steal from the insurance companies if they ever have to go the hospital for something. We currently have a system that allows people to get life saving treatment regardless of ability to pay, yeah it needs some work but it is the best in the world.

The definition of insurance is to protect against an event that may or may not happen.
 
#182
#182
lawgator1 said:
As the plane that is health care plummets to the ground, the Democrats are trying to convert the plane into a glider while the Republicans are evenly divided between those fighting over the few remaining parachutes and those complaining that the effort to make it a glider is stupid.
Click to expand...
That's not a plane. It's the Hindenburg.
 
#183
#183
lumberjack4 said:
Here's my thoughts on the whole system.

Health care is a service rendered by one party to another. Those that deny that precept are saying that everyone has rights to anyone's work regardless of the ability to pay. Example I build a house and you decide it is your right to occupy that house regardless of the fact that you can't afford the monthly payments. You have just taken my work and my labor for nothing based upon your 'need'.

Now I am a pharmaceutical company and I find the cure to prostate cancer. It took me 23 years and $500 million to come upon this breakthrough. I decide to sell my medicine for $300 a pill with the hopes of breaking even on my investment in 12 years. You have prostate cancer and decide that it is your right to have the medicine for free because you can't afford $300 a pill my business be damned. Never mind the fact that the sole reason I went into pharmaceuticals was to make money. Saving lives was only the means to that end. You say that my company preys upon the sick and the poor never realizing that if I never looked to make a profit the drug would never have come around in the first place.

Now I am an insurance company. I go into business to make a profit. I charge families $300 a month for comprehensive coverage. A family of 4 goes to a doctor once a year for an average doctor's bill of $150 a person I come out ahead, but other customers are undergoing surgery, expensive surgery, and I insure those families for a lost. In fact based on premiums alone, my insurance company loses massive amounts of money. My balance sheet is so far in the red I won't last a year based on premiums alone. I decide that in order to make a profit while keeping rates competitive I invest the premiums in stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. That's the only way I can insure people who pay $300 a month and have $60,000 surgeries and procedures. You decide that you want health insurance and you buy from me. After staying with my insurance company for 2 years you are discovered to have cancer. The doctors caught it in time and you have surgery that costs $30,000. To this point you have paid me $6400 (2 years of premiums) plus copays to reap $30,000+ in benefits. Looks like the insurance paid off for you. I decide to raise rates to $350 a month the investments are a little down and a lot of my customers have had surgery and I still want to make a profit. That's why I'm in this business remember? You decide you can't afford the new rates and scream and yell at me for making "obscene profits" my company made $300 million a 4% profit margin. I am now the evil one for giving you $30,000 in benefits at a price tag of $6,400 from you. You made a 460% return on your investment and I'm the evil one?

Take a look at what you are getting. Sure the system can use improvements. If we simply introduced competition across state lines consumers would instantly have hundreds of new companies to compare prices and plans with, but at the end of the day the consumer is getting a steal from the insurance companies if they ever have to go the hospital for something. We currently have a system that allows people to get life saving treatment regardless of ability to pay, yeah it needs some work but it is the best in the world.

The definition of insurance is to protect against an event that may or may not happen.
Click to expand...

:clapping::clapping:
 
#184
#184
lumberjack4 said:
Here's my thoughts on the whole system.

Health care is a service rendered by one party to another. Those that deny that precept are saying that everyone has rights to anyone's work regardless of the ability to pay. Example I build a house and you decide it is your right to occupy that house regardless of the fact that you can't afford the monthly payments. You have just taken my work and my labor for nothing based upon your 'need'.

Now I am a pharmaceutical company and I find the cure to prostate cancer. It took me 23 years and $500 million to come upon this breakthrough. I decide to sell my medicine for $300 a pill with the hopes of breaking even on my investment in 12 years. You have prostate cancer and decide that it is your right to have the medicine for free because you can't afford $300 a pill my business be damned. Never mind the fact that the sole reason I went into pharmaceuticals was to make money. Saving lives was only the means to that end. You say that my company preys upon the sick and the poor never realizing that if I never looked to make a profit the drug would never have come around in the first place.

Now I am an insurance company. I go into business to make a profit. I charge families $300 a month for comprehensive coverage. A family of 4 goes to a doctor once a year for an average doctor's bill of $150 a person I come out ahead, but other customers are undergoing surgery, expensive surgery, and I insure those families for a lost. In fact based on premiums alone, my insurance company loses massive amounts of money. My balance sheet is so far in the red I won't last a year based on premiums alone. I decide that in order to make a profit while keeping rates competitive I invest the premiums in stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. That's the only way I can insure people who pay $300 a month and have $60,000 surgeries and procedures. You decide that you want health insurance and you buy from me. After staying with my insurance company for 2 years you are discovered to have cancer. The doctors caught it in time and you have surgery that costs $30,000. To this point you have paid me $6400 (2 years of premiums) plus copays to reap $30,000+ in benefits. Looks like the insurance paid off for you. I decide to raise rates to $350 a month the investments are a little down and a lot of my customers have had surgery and I still want to make a profit. That's why I'm in this business remember? You decide you can't afford the new rates and scream and yell at me for making "obscene profits" my company made $300 million a 4% profit margin. I am now the evil one for giving you $30,000 in benefits at a price tag of $6,400 from you. You made a 460% return on your investment and I'm the evil one?

Take a look at what you are getting. Sure the system can use improvements. If we simply introduced competition across state lines consumers would instantly have hundreds of new companies to compare prices and plans with, but at the end of the day the consumer is getting a steal from the insurance companies if they ever have to go the hospital for something. We currently have a system that allows people to get life saving treatment regardless of ability to pay, yeah it needs some work but it is the best in the world.

The definition of insurance is to protect against an event that may or may not happen.
Click to expand...

I concur....government....get the hell out of the way!
 
#186
#186
GAVol said:
That's not a plane. It's the Hindenburg.
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Exactly. Pretending the idea was at some point a viable plan is preposterous.

End the near monopolies that insurers enjoy and educate people about the function of health insurance and we can probably move toward a market based solution.
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#187
#187
BigPapaVol said:
Exactly. Pretending the idea was at some point a viable plan is preposterous.

End the near monopolies that insurers enjoy and educate people about the function of health insurance and we can probably move toward a market based solution.
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Click to expand...

But, where would that leave the Chi-Town Boys?
 
#188
#188
BigPapaVol said:
educate people about the function of health insurance
Click to expand...
I agree, but good luck with that. Tying health insurance to the workplace and payroll deduction along with co-payments and discount prescription drug benefits has made most people view their health insuror as something akin to the Tooth Fairy.
 
#189
#189
GAVol said:
I agree, but good luck with that. Tying health insurance to the workplace and payroll deduction along with co-payments and discount prescription drug benefits has made most people view their health insuror as something akin to the Tooth Fairy.
Click to expand...

I agree and hence clowns like LG shouldn't b$&ch about the soaring costs of care. insurers have to price all the frivolous crap in before they even begin underwriting the big dollar risks.

Having been through this twice with our company, I decided to systematically visit with everyone in our company to explain why high deductible policy with HSA fits the intent of health insurance best and ends up the most cost effective in almost every way.
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#190
#190
A question.....

If Reconciliation is based on the Federal budget and getting things passed within it, since the Health Care Bills are budget neutral, if I remember correctly, how can they even get close to using this power??

Also, there is a Commerce/Commercial Law in the US, can't they just include Health Care in it??
 
#191
#191
lawgator1 said:
It amazes me that leading up to this the GOP has warned that it is likely a poltiical stunt, but then they say that at the first opportunity to make a statement by doing so they are going to walk out.

I get the sense that the tide is turning. Obama and the Dems took some knocks for the way this all got handled, but now there seems to be this groundswell out there of, "Okay Republicans, we did what you asked and killed their plan, now what's yours?"
Click to expand...

Barry mentioned several times that he has read over some of the Rebublican plans. So even he has acknowledged that they have put forth ideas.
 
#192
#192
The news in Florida:

Blue Cross of Florida Asks For Up to 14%Rate Increase


Published: Thursday, February 25, 2010 at 11:54 p.m.
Last Modified: Thursday, February 25, 2010 at 11:54 p.m.
tallahassee |

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida wants to boost its rates on health policies for individuals and small businesses by more than 14 percent in some cases.

The health insurer has filed three rate requests with the Office of Insurance Regulation in the past month. It wants an 11.2 percent increase for individuals who pay preferred-provider organization policies while small-group plans would be increased by at least 14 percent.

The increases are necessary because of soaring medical costs, said Blue Cross Vice President Randy Kammer. She said the millions of uninsured people in Florida have left unpaid bills that forces hospitals and other health care providers to shift costs to private health plans.





This is why we are screwed. Costs go higher, premiums go up. As premiums go up, businesses cut health insursance. As they cut, less people are paying for their health care, causing the amount charged off to go up, resulting in higher premiums. And on and on it goes....

At some point, there is going to be one guy left with the tab.
 
#193
#193
lawgator1 said:
The news in Florida:

Blue Cross of Florida Asks For Up to 14%Rate Increase


Published: Thursday, February 25, 2010 at 11:54 p.m.
Last Modified: Thursday, February 25, 2010 at 11:54 p.m.
tallahassee |

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida wants to boost its rates on health policies for individuals and small businesses by more than 14 percent in some cases.

The health insurer has filed three rate requests with the Office of Insurance Regulation in the past month. It wants an 11.2 percent increase for individuals who pay preferred-provider organization policies while small-group plans would be increased by at least 14 percent.

The increases are necessary because of soaring medical costs, said Blue Cross Vice President Randy Kammer. She said the millions of uninsured people in Florida have left unpaid bills that forces hospitals and other health care providers to shift costs to private health plans.





This is why we are screwed. Costs go higher, premiums go up. As premiums go up, businesses cut health insursance. As they cut, less people are paying for their health care, causing the amount charged off to go up, resulting in higher premiums. And on and on it goes....

At some point, there is going to be one guy left with the tab.
Click to expand...

No one is arguing we have a perfect system, most of us just don't want the gov't to screw up on this issue like they do on just about everything else they touch.

I want to get away from employer based health insurance completely.
 
#194
#194
LG,

Unions in this country helped increase the cost of living, demanding more pay for less hours. In order to meet that demand for higher pay, businesses had to increase the cost of their products. That cost was pushed on to the consumer, who in turn, was the ones demanding more pay. Therefore, they continue to ask for higher pay, better insurance, etc. So the businesses, who found it impossible to pay exceedingly high wages and stay in business, either shut down or moved overseas or to Mexico, where people are just happy to have a job. Hence, the high unemployment rates and low industry jobs.

Do you see what I'm getting at? We, spoiled Americans, are our own worst enemies. We demand to be paid ridiculous wages, but expect to pay 1940 prices on merchandise, cars, etc. You cant have both.

This cost of doing business can also affect Health Insurance companies. People want to have better care but they dont want to pay for it. This isnt Sesame Street! This is the real world.
 
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#195
#195
CountVolcula said:
LG,

Unions in this country helped increase the cost of living, demanding more pay for less hours. In order to meet that demand for higher pay, businesses had to increase the cost of their products. That cost was pushed on to the consumer, who in turn, was the ones demanding more pay. Therefore, they continue to ask for higher pay, better insurance, etc. So the businesses, who found it impossible to pay exceedingly high wages and stay in business, either shut down or moved overseas or to Mexico, where people are just happy to have a job. Hence, the high unemployment rates and low industry jobs.

Do you see what I'm getting at? We, spoiled Americans, are our own worst enemies. We demand to be paid ridiculous wages, but expect to pay 1940 prices on merchandise, cars, etc. You cant have both.

This cost of doing business can also affect Health Insurance companies. People want to have better care but they dont want to pay for it. This isnt Sesame Street! This is the real world.
Click to expand...


We actually agree on something.
 
#196
#196
President Obama gathered with congressional leaders of both parties yesterday for an open, honest, and productive discussion on health reform. It was a strong success, focused on substance -- as CNN put it, "a win for our country."

While disagreements remain, the meeting uncovered considerable areas of overlap, including many Republican ideas that were already in the President's proposal. And with all the best ideas now on the table, the President made it clear that no excuses remain: Congress must put aside partisan divides and swiftly complete a final bill.

This is a message the whole country needs to hear, but most people weren't able to watch all seven hours of today's summit -- and we can't let the special interest spin machine drown us out. That's where you come in.

Check out a few of the best moments from yesterday's historic event. Then, help spread the word using our brand new "On the Air" tool to speak out on talk radio:

Organizing for America | BarackObama.com | Highlights from the Bipartisan Meeting on Health Reform

The President was crystal clear about his commitment to pass reform that puts Americans in charge of their own health care, reduces costs, and expands coverage for tens of millions without insurance. We've come too far to scrap a year's worth of work and start over. And the millions of Americans that are suffering can't afford another year-long debate. There's simply too much at stake.

Yesterday's bipartisan meeting was a huge step forward toward passing reform. And today, you can help make sure we go the rest of the way:

Organizing for America | BarackObama.com | Highlights from the Bipartisan Meeting on Health Reform

Thanks for making it possible,

Mitch

Mitch Stewart
Director
Organizing for America
 
#198
#198
"come too far to scrap a year's worth of work and start over. "

I love this argument. As though congress doesn't regurally waste it's time.
 
#199
#199
orangeblooded2 said:
President Obama gathered with congressional leaders of both parties yesterday for an open, honest, and productive discussion on health reform. It was a strong success, focused on substance -- as CNN put it, "a win for our country."

While disagreements remain, the meeting uncovered considerable areas of overlap, including many Republican ideas that were already in the President's proposal. And with all the best ideas now on the table, the President made it clear that no excuses remain: Congress must put aside partisan divides and swiftly complete a final bill.

This is a message the whole country needs to hear, but most people weren't able to watch all seven hours of today's summit -- and we can't let the special interest spin machine drown us out. That's where you come in.

Check out a few of the best moments from yesterday's historic event. Then, help spread the word using our brand new "On the Air" tool to speak out on talk radio:

Organizing for America | BarackObama.com | Highlights from the Bipartisan Meeting on Health Reform

The President was crystal clear about his commitment to pass reform that puts Americans in charge of their own health care, reduces costs, and expands coverage for tens of millions without insurance. We've come too far to scrap a year's worth of work and start over. And the millions of Americans that are suffering can't afford another year-long debate. There's simply too much at stake.

Yesterday's bipartisan meeting was a huge step forward toward passing reform. And today, you can help make sure we go the rest of the way:

Organizing for America | BarackObama.com | Highlights from the Bipartisan Meeting on Health Reform

Thanks for making it possible,

Mitch

Mitch Stewart
Director
Organizing for America
Click to expand...

That's kinda odd because this morning according to the conservative pundits on morning radio were saying it was a complete waste of time and that pretty much was said was "Go with our plan or GTFO" and I did hear the Minority Leader say that if they don't start over with a clean slate they aren't interested to back that up.
 
#200
#200
droski said:
"come too far to scrap a year's worth of work and start over. "

I love this argument. As though congress doesn't regurally waste it's time.
Click to expand...

I agree that the Congress is incredibly wasteful.

I do not agree that such waste justifies wasting more.

Did you watch it? I watched parts, plus the news shows. FOX had a "bipartisan" focus group that emphasized that Obama seemed to be condescending, lol.

All other networks and commentators expressed dismay that the Republicans came in with rehearsed sound bite one-liners.

It is clear that wholly owned subsidiary of the insurance industry that is the GOP will allow nothing substantive to pass, even if they agree with it. Their masters have gotten their money's worth out of this bunch, that's for sure.
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