The Official Obama HealthCare Summit Thread

#128
#128
Good lord, you're missing my point all together... Lets say everybody gets an education and/or gets a well-paying job... Where does that leave this country??? I'll let you answer and see if you can figure it out.
 
#129
#129
thekicker33 said:
Good lord, you're missing my point all together... Lets say everybody gets an education and/or gets a well-paying job... Where does that leave this country??? I'll let you answer and see if you can figure it out.
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a good percentage of people in this country are too stupid to get an education and a well paying job. unlike the socialist countries that you seem to worship, here in america you dont' get handed a well paid job for doing nothing (which is what you seem to be implying happens). this is why spain and greece are going bankrupt and we are not.
 
#130
#130
thekicker33 said:
Healthcare in its current form didn't exist when the constitution was created. There's no way it could be included because it didn't EXIST yet.

Don't be afraid of progress... It's been happening since the day the constitutiuon was created... hence amendments...

Voting rights for women weren't in the constitution, so i guess that should be the case now either, huh??
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I think you are missing my point. See the following (posted on an earlier page):

"Even if it were considered a fundamental right, that would not mean everyone is automatically entitled to healthcare. The constitution spells out certain rights but merely states these rights may not be infringed upon by the government, not that the government has an affirmative duty to provide them."
 
#131
#131
droski said:
yeah because it's all luck of the draw right? people's actions don't effect the situation.
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No, it's not a luck of the draw at all... The wealthy didn't get to where they are without hard work... but there is some good luck along the way... there are plenty of poor folks in this country who work just as hard as the wealthy but for whatever reason didn't have the same kind of luck/connections/education. That doesn't change the fact they don't have a right to healthcare... sorry if that's not obvious to you
 
#132
#132
paul1454 said:
Well, thanks for clearing that up. I didn't get a chance to watch the summit. Anything good?
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Just saw the first half.

What was offered included the usual suspects:

1. tort reform
2. selling across state lines
3. small business pooling (but not with the federal mandates that are part of the Obama "exchange"
4. insurance reform along lines of ending caps (annual and total), ending recision, and addressing pre-existing conditions but I didn't see the specific way they called for.
5. expansion of HSAs (they presented interesting data that individuals with HSAs saw premiums rise only a few percent in the last couple years and families actually saw reductions in premiums)
6. a piece-meal approach along each area
7. a focus on cost reduction vs. coverage expansion with the follow-on that lowered costs will ease expansion of coverage.

Overall it was a statement of plans to move choice to individuals, businesses and states vs. federal choice
 
#133
#133
droski said:
a good percentage of people in this country are too stupid to get an education and a well paying job. unlike the socialist countries that you seem to worship, here in america you dont' get handed a well paid job for doing nothing (which is what you seem to be implying happens). this is why spain and greece are going bankrupt and we are not.
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your attitude to people that make your life better is truly sickening...
 
#134
#134
"It is common misconception that any person in the United States has a right to drive. There is no such right in the US Constitution. Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, and that privilege can be taken away or modified based on certain conduct, including several issues surrounding drunk driving cases. We all have a Constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but not to drive."

Driving is a privilege, not a right
 
#135
#135
thekicker33 said:
there are plenty of poor folks in this country who work just as hard as the wealthy but for whatever reason didn't have the same kind of luck/connections/education.
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no there aren't. you don't end up dirt poor in this country for your entire life unless you are lazy and/or stupid. maybe you aren't a millonare, but you aren't living on the streets.
 
#136
#136
paul1454 said:
I think you are missing my point. See the following (posted on an earlier page):

"Even if it were considered a fundamental right, that would not mean everyone is automatically entitled to healthcare. The constitution spells out certain rights but merely states these rights may not be infringed upon by the government, not that the government has an affirmative duty to provide them."
Click to expand...
I didn't see that quote. And I guess we'll disagree on that quote. To me, it's very much the role of the government to make sure human rights occur, even if it means spending money (which is truly the underlying factor here)
 
#139
#139
thekicker33 said:
I didn't see that quote. And I guess we'll disagree on that quote. To me, it's very much the role of the government to make sure human rights occur, even if it means spending money (which is truly the underlying factor here)
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I'm not saying they couldn't provide it if that is your goal. In fact, Medicare and Medicaid are two examples where the government has decided to undertake the task of providing healthcare coverage to the poor and elderly. What I am saying, however, is that acknowledging healthcare as a fundamental right would do nothing toward that goal. The constitution does not provide affirmative duties for fundamental rights, only states that they must be free from government intrusion.
 
#143
#143
thekicker33 said:
Healthcare in its current form didn't exist when the constitution was created. There's no way it could be included because it didn't EXIST yet.

Don't be afraid of progress... It's been happening since the day the constitutiuon was created... hence amendments...

Voting rights for women weren't in the constitution, so i guess that should be the case now either, huh??
Click to expand...

In reverse order. Voting rights did exist as a right guaranteed by the Constitution. They simply didn't originally apply to some people. No where can you find an indication that people have a right to healthcare and that right will be borne by others.

If adding things as rights that weren't in the Constitution is progress then I presume we will soon have a right to a college education and someone else will have to pay for it. Wanting to provide more services to people whether the can pay for it or not does not convey the status of "right" on those services.

Plenty of services have been added that didn't exist at the creation of the Constitution via the legislative process. In no way does it make those things "rights". They are choices the government/people made. They can be rescinded too since they are not rights.
 
#144
#144
droski said:
a good percentage of people in this country are too stupid to get an education and a well paying job. unlike the socialist countries that you seem to worship, here in america you dont' get handed a well paid job for doing nothing (which is what you seem to be implying happens). this is why spain and greece are going bankrupt and we are not.
Click to expand...

Ya, about that...
 
#146
#146
volinbham said:
In reverse order. Voting rights did exist as a right guaranteed by the Constitution. They simply didn't originally apply to some people. No where can you find an indication that people have a right to healthcare and that right will be borne by others.

If adding things as rights that weren't in the Constitution is progress then I presume we will soon have a right to a college education and someone else will have to pay for it. Wanting to provide more services to people whether the can pay for it or not does not convey the status of "right" on those services.

Plenty of services have been added that didn't exist at the creation of the Constitution via the legislative process. In no way does it make those things "rights". They are choices the government/people made. They can be rescinded too since they are not rights.
Click to expand...

Good Post
 
#147
#147
droski said:
I feel sorry for your apologist attitude. please graduate and work for a living before you tell the rest of us how hard working all the poor idiots in this country are.
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check and check, buddy... graduated and working... i have no problem helping the poor...
 
#148
#148
volinbham said:
Just saw the first half.

What was offered included the usual suspects:

1. tort reform
2. selling across state lines
3. small business pooling (but not with the federal mandates that are part of the Obama "exchange"
4. insurance reform along lines of ending caps (annual and total), ending recision, and addressing pre-existing conditions but I didn't see the specific way they called for.
5. expansion of HSAs (they presented interesting data that individuals with HSAs saw premiums rise only a few percent in the last couple years and families actually saw reductions in premiums)
6. a piece-meal approach along each area
7. a focus on cost reduction vs. coverage expansion with the follow-on that lowered costs will ease expansion of coverage.

Overall it was a statement of plans to move choice to individuals, businesses and states vs. federal choice
Click to expand...

I truly appreciate the info. I wish they would put forth a bill that addresses costs. They sure have had enough time over the last few months to get something together. I just feel they are not as sincere about fixing our third-party payment problem as we are led to believe and that the other side has no idea what to do other than make sure everyone has coverage.
 
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