The Official "When will the Schedule be Out" thread

[UT IE 95]

Well you interpreted it wrong. With Bruce we were usually around a top 5 or 10 SOS. All my point was, was simply this year, nor next years team need that high of a SOS.

Should we still say goodbye to ccm in your opinion, Or give him another year? Is his seat still warm?

How long have you been following UT basketball? I know you've posted over 6500 times in eight weeks here, but how long have you been behind the program? I've seen your odd behavior in most threads so I'm very curious about your story.

 

[mlodmkr]

True.

But what happens in years like this that you lose a few of those?

My thought is that you can have a decent OOc rank, have a decent overall so because of the sec, and play decent teams OOC. Jmo

I guess what I'm saying is...it's easier to win the majority of your OOC games if they are against decent competition, than it is if 4 or 5 are against great teams and the others against decent and bad teams like this year

Jmo

rpi would take a bit hit and the seeding would reflect that. Play the big boys, beat them, get good seed

 

[UT IE 95]

rpi would take a bit hit and the seeding would reflect that. Play the big boys, beat them, get good seed

It's really that simple. And frankly, UT should be one of the big boys.

 

[vol2013]

How long have you been following UT basketball? I know you've posted over 6500 times in eight weeks here, but how long have you been behind the program? I've seen your odd behavior in most threads so I'm very curious about your story.

Haha, you calling somebody else's behavior odd. There are an unlimited amount of dumb ass posts that you have made that could be bumped for a great laugh on here.

 

[UT IE 95]

Haha, you calling somebody else's behavior odd. There are an unlimited amount of dumb ass posts that you have made that could be bumped for a great laugh on here.

Thanks for posting. Your cool factor is off the charts.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Lessons Learned from Missing the NCAA Tournament - Rocky Top Talk

This pretty much puts this conversation (thread) to rest. Highest or Lowest RPI at Large selection was a 57 belonging to West Virginia. Schedule the big boys on the schedule win some of them and don't let it come down to the committee to determine your fate.

It should be noted that when you give up those big boys and schedule more lower mids then you also lose in Seeding when the tournament rolls around.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

How long have you been following UT basketball? I know you've posted over 6500 times in eight weeks here, but how long have you been behind the program? I've seen your odd behavior in most threads so I'm very curious about your story.

Long enough to know that you don't tell a coach goodbye after 15 games...

How about yourself???

 

[Incipient]

I will add one thing:

obviously, you can't tell for sure which teams are going to be completely awful (like RPI 300+). But to the extent that you can predict, avoid the bottom feeders at all costs. What killed our RPI wasn't losses to Austin Peay, Oakland, CofC. . . what killed our RPI was wins over The Citadel, UTC, and ULM.

Which shows that the RPI is an idiotic formula, but as long as it's still the formula, playing a bunch of crap teams in the 150-200 range is just fine, playing teams 300+ will torpedo your ranking.

Ideally, you do what Ole Miss did, and schedule the very top mid-majors that will have gaudy records. Ever wonder why their RPI was so high? Losses to MTSU and Southern Miss.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

rpi would take a bit hit and the seeding would reflect that. Play the big boys, beat them, get good seed

I'm talking about ghis year and most likely next year team with my scheduling opinion...

Yea we would have taken a rpi hit...itd have been probably in the 40's not 80's

And we'd have been in the NCAA something we aren't right now, so what would seeding matter? Atleast we'd be dancing.

As I've said, if you're a top 15 program or so then ok, but your middle of the road teams, which we were this year don't schedule top SOS. Go look at te ranks, every team in the top 20 SOS is in the dance.

This is because they are GOOD teams, and can beat some of those highly ranked teams, Tennessee wasn't capable of doing that with good probability this year. If and when they get back to being a top 15 program then ok that's fine, but in the meantime no point in having one of the highest SOS. As I said, go look, only the better teams in the NCAA schedule the toughest SOS. And for kickers, clearly ccm agrees with this or you would have seen an urgency to add games to this year and to next years schedule.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I will add one thing:

obviously, you can't tell for sure which teams are going to be completely awful (like RPI 300+). But to the extent that you can predict, avoid the bottom feeders at all costs. What killed our RPI wasn't losses to Austin Peay, Oakland, CofC. . . what killed our RPI was wins over The Citadel, UTC, and ULM.

Which shows that the RPI is an idiotic formula, but as long as it's still the formula, playing a bunch of crap teams in the 150-200 range is just fine, playing teams 300+ will torpedo your ranking.

Ideally, you do what Ole Miss did, and schedule the very top mid-majors that will have gaudy records. Ever wonder why their RPI was so high? Losses to MTSU and Southern Miss.

Bingo!

Scheduling decent teams is just fine, you don't have to go schedule the top teams in the country and have a top SOS.

The sec will be good enough next year, and you can go schedule decent teams and a few better teams like Memphis and nc state as well as Virginia as we have. As long as you don't schedule the citadels as you said, then your SOS should be fine.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Lessons Learned from Missing the NCAA Tournament - Rocky Top Talk

This pretty much puts this conversation (thread) to rest. Highest or Lowest RPI at Large selection was a 57 belonging to West Virginia. Schedule the big boys on the schedule win some of them and don't let it come down to the committee to determine your fate.

It should be noted that when you give up those big boys and schedule more lower mids then you also lose in Seeding when the tournament rolls around.

The top 20 SOS teams in the country are all dancing. Are you trying to say if our SOS was top 20 we'd be dancing?

 

[Escape Goat]

Long enough to know that you don't tell a coach goodbye after 15 games...

How about yourself???

Short, and to the point. Nice!

 

[UT IE 95]

Long enough to know that you don't tell a coach goodbye after 15 games...

How about yourself???

This team sucked the first half of the year. They had a great turnaround, but the fact is they underachieved grossly and that is why they are playing tonight rather than later in the week.

This team lost to Austin Peay at home. You stalk the board to post RPI rankings, but you know what, look at the Austin Peay game if you want to know why this team is in the NIT. They lost 14 games this year - that sucks.

We are paying a guy that has never coached in an NCAA tournament game well over a million dollars a year. In the first 15 games this team was lazy, playing horrible uninspired basketball with a coach that made constant mistakes in preparation and game situations.

Flat out, if they continued to look like the team that was embarrassed by Austin Peay at home, CofC, Memphis, and Oakland, then yea, they could have fired Martin for all I cared.

Rather than *****ing at other members because they don't agree with your RPI ramblings, enlighten us about how attacking a zone defense would have helped this team and made RPI rankings irrelevant.

I asked about your story as a fan in hopes of figuring out where you’re coming from. Fans whose history is the Pearl years (especially the last two) have a very different perspective of UT basketball than fans that cut their teeth in the Wade Houston era. Since you don't care to address the question just go back to being a condescending confrontational poster that spends 18 hours a day on VolNation.

 

[Shaun1985]

How does the Big East / SEC challenge work? I really can't remember because it seems like we've played a BigEast team the last few years. Does every SEC team participate or do you play the games every now and then and take a couple of years off from it?

I remember Bruce saying that nobody wanted to accept the Pitt game and Tennessee did. Not sure how true that is but I'd love to continue scheduling BigEast opponents and I love that Martin is dipping into the ACC. Really not sure why we haven't scheduled North Carolina, Duke, or NC State since they are so close.

 

[Sudden Impact]

This team sucked the first half of the year. They had a great turnaround, but the fact is they underachieved grossly and that is why they are playing tonight rather than later in the week.

This team lost to Austin Peay at home. You stalk the board to post RPI rankings, but you know what, look at the Austin Peay game if you want to know why this team is in the NIT. They lost 14 games this year - that sucks.

We are paying a guy that has never coached in an NCAA tournament game well over a million dollars a year. In the first 15 games this team was lazy, playing horrible uninspired basketball with a coach that made constant mistakes in preparation and game situations.

Flat out, if they continued to look like the team that was embarrassed by Austin Peay at home, CofC, Memphis, and Oakland, then yea, they could have fired Martin for all I cared.

Rather than *****ing at other members because they don't agree with your RPI ramblings, enlighten us about how attacking a zone defense would have helped this team and made RPI rankings irrelevant.

I asked about your story as a fan in hopes of figuring out where you’re coming from. Fans whose history is the Pearl years (especially the last two) have a very different perspective of UT basketball than fans that cut their teeth in the Wade Houston era. Since you don't care to address the question just go back to being a condescending confrontational poster that spends 18 hours a day on VolNation.

I think you have some Valid points, but with little patience to wait it out.

There was a lot of disgruntled fans this year that grew in numbers because of the football issues, CPS's condition, the fact that we had lost Pearl who was a beloved coach, the NCAA investigation, the home loss to AP, combined with losses to COC, and Oakland. We really hit bottom in all sports.

The point of the Pearl era only Vol Fans is another Valid point. I grew up in the Mears, Devoe, Green, Peterson, Houston and Pearl Days. So this start was not a shock.

This team overachieved if anything and most of us did not see this coming. (The turnaround). So I do see where you may have been disgruntled but not to the point of stating Goodbye to CCM.

All coaches must be given time to get their system and recruits into play and it can be done quicker in basketball than football. Simply because of the number of Athletes.

I see both points of view but taking on a weaker schedule to boast the RPI may set us up for a letdown. We want the team to raise the level and not to lower the standards to try to get there. So keep scheduling the same with the mix of good teams versus bad. Beating Texas, Kansas, and other talented teams during the Pearl era put Tennessee Basketball on the map. So we don't need to go to a kitten schedule to leave false hopes for fans.

Florida did just that and they were overrated all year.

 

[Sudden Impact]

The top 20 SOS teams in the country are all dancing. Are you trying to say if our SOS was top 20 we'd be dancing?

Yes I am if we win the games we are suppose to win.

We lost games this year because we were in transition a new coach, system, and little experience.

If we had a SOS of 20 and won the games that we needed to then the RPI would be in alignment, that is the bottom Line. The losses to the + 100 RPI teams speaks volumes and we did not beat enough higher RPI teams to get us into the game. Road and Neutral Site W/L records of 3-11 did not help either.

Highest rated at Large bid RPI team awarded a bid was a 57, highest rated Ken Pom was a 54 and the Highest rated BPI was ?. So that tells me you better have a SOS that supports a High RPI and if you don't have Good teams in the mix OOC then a losses to 2 sub 150 teams at home or on the road will kill your chances.

I am an RPI Fan and any other rating that tells the true story of the team, RPI, KenPom, or BPI. This team was a 70 to 85 RPI team. Not tournament worthy based on Paper.

What's more is that the SEC Tournament Loss validated that this team was not ready. Losing to Ole Miss in the first round ended it and gave the committee a valid reason to only place 4 teams from the SEC in the Tournament.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

This team sucked the first half of the year. They had a great turnaround, but the fact is they underachieved grossly and that is why they are playing tonight rather than later in the week.

This team lost to Austin Peay at home. You stalk the board to post RPI rankings, but you know what, look at the Austin Peay game if you want to know why this team is in the NIT. They lost 14 games this year - that sucks.

We are paying a guy that has never coached in an NCAA tournament game well over a million dollars a year. In the first 15 games this team was lazy, playing horrible uninspired basketball with a coach that made constant mistakes in preparation and game situations.

Flat out, if they continued to look like the team that was embarrassed by Austin Peay at home, CofC, Memphis, and Oakland, then yea, they could have fired Martin for all I cared.

Rather than *****ing at other members because they don't agree with your RPI ramblings, enlighten us about how attacking a zone defense would have helped this team and made RPI rankings irrelevant.

I asked about your story as a fan in hopes of figuring out where you’re coming from. Fans whose history is the Pearl years (especially the last two) have a very different perspective of UT basketball than fans that cut their teeth in the Wade Houston era. Since you don't care to address the question just go back to being a condescending confrontational poster that spends 18 hours a day on VolNation.

I'm sorry I stopped reading at this part.."but the fact is they underachieved grossly and that is why they are playing tonight rather than later in the week."

Underachieved?

Theres no point in conversing with you because you clearly are clueless. I feel confident in saying you are probably the ONLY member on VN that feels this team UNDERACHIEVED GROSSLY.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Yes I am if we win the games we are suppose to win.

We lost games this year because we were in transition a new coach, system, and little experience.

If we had a SOS of 20 and won the games that we needed to then the RPI would be in alignment, that is the bottom Line. The losses to the + 100 RPI teams speaks volumes and we did not beat enough higher RPI teams to get us into the game. Road and Neutral Site W/L records of 3-11 did not help either.

Highest rated at Large bid RPI team awarded a bid was a 57, highest rated Ken Pom was a 54 and the Highest rated BPI was ?. So that tells me you better have a SOS that supports a High RPI and if you don't have Good teams in the mix OOC then a losses to 2 sub 150 teams at home or on the road will kill your chances.

I am an RPI Fan and any other rating that tells the true story of the team, RPI, KenPom, or BPI. This team was a 70 to 85 RPI team. Not tournament worthy based on Paper.

What's more is that the SEC Tournament Loss validated that this team was not ready. Losing to Ole Miss in the first round ended it and gave the committee a valid reason to only place 4 teams from the SEC in the Tournament.

Your first paragraph is my point exactly...

It has nothing do with with if our SOS was inside of 20 or not. If we won the games we were supposed to we'd be dancing right now, regardless of where our SOS is. You really don't think that wih our current SOS this year that add those 3 wins vs coc Oakland and ap, and in effect take away those 3 bad losses that this team wouldn't e dancing? The SOS isn't why this team isn't dancing, our SOS was actually pretty good. This team isn't dancing because they lost 3 bad games, simple as that. Turn COC, AP, and Oakland into wins and take away those 3 losses and this team has a favorable seed in the big dance right now.

If we beat te teams we should have, coc ap and Oakland....this team is dancing with ease and probably a decent seed.

Us missing te tournament had NOTHING to do with our SOS. I don't get what you're saying?

Xavier, Notre dame, Iowa state, UNLV, S Miss, Temple, Kansas state, wichita state, San Diego state, Cincinatti, Missouri, Gonzaga, new Mexico, cal, Virginia, St Louis, byu, and creighton.

Those 18 teams all hard worse, and some where MUCH worse SOS than Tennessee yet all received at large bids.

 

[OrangeBalls]

Pearl liked to schedule mid-majors that were projected to be one of the top teams in their league so the RPI wouldn't take a hit. That way we got good competition and even if we lost it wasn't a terrible loss like the Austin Peay loss was to our RPI. He then sprinkled in some big boys where we had opportunities for big wins and we got them more times than we didn't. That helps when the league is tough and you may only get 8 wins in conference. You can also fall back on your OOC scheduling to boost your resume.

There was always a couple of cupcakes in there like every team has but I think Martin needs to stick to Pearl's schedule formula. This year was an exception. No one thought we had the team to compete against the schedule that we usually have and it ended up biting us. We had a lot of players that were role players in the past that were now starters and players were still trying to figure out Martin's system. If we play in Nov and Dec next year like we did this year then we have some problems. The players know the system now for the most part. They should be much better coming out of the gates.

 

[OrangeBalls]

Also, anyone that thought they could get a read on a team in Dec made up of mainly role players in the past trying to learn a brand new scheme with a new coach is a knee jerk fan that has the patience of a 5 year old. That tells me all I need to know about their thought process.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Your first paragraph is my point exactly...

It has nothing do with with if our SOS was inside of 20 or not. If we won the games we were supposed to we'd be dancing right now, regardless of where our SOS is. You really don't think that wih our current SOS this year that add those 3 wins vs coc Oakland and ap, and in effect take away those 3 bad losses that this team wouldn't e dancing? The SOS isn't why this team isn't dancing, our SOS was actually pretty good. This team isn't dancing because they lost 3 bad games, simple as that. Turn COC, AP, and Oakland into wins and take away those 3 losses and this team has a favorable seed in the big dance right now.

If we beat te teams we should have, coc ap and Oakland....this team is dancing with ease and probably a decent seed.

Us missing te tournament had NOTHING to do with our SOS. I don't get what you're saying?

Xavier, Notre dame, Iowa state, UNLV, S Miss, Temple, Kansas state, wichita state, San Diego state, Cincinatti, Missouri, Gonzaga, new Mexico, cal, Virginia, St Louis, byu, and creighton.

Those 18 teams all hard worse, and some where MUCH worse SOS than Tennessee yet all received at large bids.

If we beat the teams we were suppose too then the RPI goes down. Losing to those teams had more negative affect on RPI than beating them. SOS+W/L +other teams Ratings = RPI.

Can't have solid RPI without all three playing a role in the process. Thus RPI of 57 equaled Highest RPI team to get at large bid. Alot of 20+ win teams did not because why? RPI

Let me clarify this, I understood you to want to schedule more cream puffs than big players. Low expectations by scheduling equals low standards equals mediocare results equals not being prepared for tournament and sliding into NCAA Bid. All equals underachievement and over confidence.

You don't back down and take the easy route if that is what you are advocating then I don't support it.

I don agree with the Bold comment. I am not sure we would be dancing and the seed would not be any be probably any better than Memphis seed. It would have been a close call but still in the hands of the committee. The loss to Ole Miss was a no-brainer and a no go. I thought the only chance that we had was possibility if a 5th team got in, now I think Ole Miss would have gone over us but who knows.

I am sorry you do not see this correlation.

 

[UT IE 95]

The point of the Pearl era only Vol Fans is another Valid point. I grew up in the Mears, Devoe, Green, Peterson, Houston and Pearl Days. So this start was not a shock.

Interesting. I think we're about the same age since we've seen the same coaches. The meat of my fandom for UT hoops (teens til now) was in the low water mark years of Houston, O'Neil, Snake-oil Green, and Buzz-ball. When we hit it big with Pearl it was awesome.

From my perspective, I've seen UT hoops suck and I don't want to go back there. We should realistically compete with UK every year for the league title. So seeing us struggle early on this season is call for a quick trigger to make a change. If we started another Houston-esque slide again I may not live to see another conference championship.

On the other hand, if you've only followed UT hoops from the Pearl era til now, you're not familiar with anything but success - new fans almost take it for granted. If we struggle this year - no big deal, we'll be competing for championships next year. We're UT - we've always had success in basketball. Like UK fans during the Gillespie years - they were slow to pull the trigger because they are Kentucky and Kentucky always wins.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

So we took the easy way this year and are going to next?


You are saying replace ap coc and Oakland...with OSU mich st and UNC and we are a NCAA team?

Sorry I don't see that...

As I've said when we become a better team and can hang with this teams away from TBA then sure have a solid SOS, but right now we can't. What the point in scheduling those teams? To have a worse record?

We could have had the number 1 SOS this year and it wouldn't have mattered. I don't get what you're saying.

SOS this year was not this teams fault, how do you think it was? Trade those 3 bad losses for 3 "good" losse to UNC mich st and OSU and we still aren't dancing, so what are you saying?

At the end of the day you have to win games, if you go 10-20 but have the #1 SOS, you won't be dancing in the NCAA or NIT. My point is you have to be a pretty good ball team before you should schedule like that. The top 20 SOS in the country are all NCAA at large teams and are better than Tennessee. That should tell you something, they are better than Tennessee and therefore can play very tough SOS and probably win enough to make the dance. Right now Tennessee can't do that they aren't good enough to beat the teams on that kind of SOS regularly enough to even have enough wins to be a NCAA team.

And yes as you said we would have gotten in probably a seed like Memphis, they're an 8, that's decent. That's better than where we currently sit in the NIT. We would have been a lock at 21-11 and no bad losses, if you don't agree with that I may as well stop.

Also, you are mistaking what I said and my meaning initially. I never said CREAM PUFFS, and no good teams as you are insinuating I said. I said not as many juggernauts and not as many bad teams(like ap) and more decent teams, like Virginia Memphis, nc state, penn state and Oakland, all part of next years schedule.

Also, you're eithe forgetting or ignoring that tennessees SOS this year was good. Their SOS was better than 18 of the 37 at large teams in the tournament. So how is it that the scheduling and SOS is not good enough in your opinion? The SOS was just fine this year and well be next, and as I said before is not and will not be the reason we don't make the dance.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Interesting. I think we're about the same age since we've seen the same coaches. The meat of my fandom for UT hoops (teens til now) was in the low water mark years of Houston, O'Neil, Snake-oil Green, and Buzz-ball. When we hit it big with Pearl it was awesome.

From my perspective, I've seen UT hoops suck and I don't want to go back there. We should realistically compete with UK every year for the league title. So seeing us struggle early on this season is call for a quick trigger to make a change. If we started another Houston-esque slide again I may not live to see another conference championship.

On the other hand, if you've only followed UT hoops from the Pearl era til now, you're not familiar with anything but success - new fans almost take it for granted. If we struggle this year - no big deal, we'll be competing for championships next year. We're UT - we've always had success in basketball. Like UK fans during the Gillespie years - they were slow to pull the trigger because they are Kentucky and Kentucky always wins.

LOL.... Forgot about O'Neil. How could you forget him. I had the privilege on knowing Johnny Darden and being around Benard King and Ernie Grunfeld for several private events. They did not run together but we were together privately. Also have several friends that keep in close contact with Ernie because of his job.

Mears was a coach, but he threw those three players along with Jackson onto the court and let them create. It was interesting. Forget about the interim coach Cliff Wettig for Ray Mears.

 

[Sudden Impact]

So we took the easy way this year and are going to next?


You are saying replace ap coc and Oakland...with OSU mich st and UNC and we are a NCAA team?

Sorry I don't see that...

As I've said when we become a better team and can hang with this teams away from TBA then sure have a solid SOS, but right now we can't. What the point in scheduling those teams? To have a worse record?

We could have had the number 1 SOS this year and it wouldn't have mattered. I don't get what you're saying.

SOS this year was not this teams fault, how do you think it was? Trade those 3 bad losses for 3 "good" losse to UNC mich st and OSU and we still aren't dancing, so what are you saying?

At the end of the day you have to win games, if you go 10-20 but have the #1 SOS, you won't be dancing in the NCAA or NIT. My point is you have to be a pretty good ball team before you should schedule like that. The top 20 SOS in the country are all NCAA at large teams and are better than Tennessee. That should tell you something, they are better than Tennessee and therefore can play very tough SOS and probably win enough to make the dance. Right now Tennessee can't do that they aren't good enough to beat the teams on that kind of SOS regularly enough to even have enough wins to be a NCAA team.

And yes as you said we would have gotten in probably a seed like Memphis, they're an 8, that's decent. That's better than where we currently sit in the NIT.

Also, you are mistaking what I said and my meaning initially. I never said CREAM PUFFS, and no good teams as you are insinuating I said. I said not as many juggernauts and not as many bad teams(like ap) and more decent teams, like Virginia Memphis, nc state, penn state and Oakland, all part of next years schedule.

Also, you're eithe forgetting or ignoring that tennessees SOS this year was good. Their SOS was better than 18 of the 37 at large teams in the tournament. So how is it that the scheduling and SOS is not good enough in your opinion? The SOS was just fine this year and well be next, and as I said before is not and will not be the reason we don't make the dance.

No I am not saying that. All I am stating is that it appears that we want to tweak the schedule and avoid competition at a higher level.

We have a whole thread about it now. It is much to do about nothing. I fail into the trap of rendering an opinion when I should have avoided this "much to do about Nothing"

Bottom line is to schedule accordingly, fear no one, win on the road and at home, and know that the RPI no matter what she tells you means a lot in this process for selection and seeding. Don't lose to powder puffs at home. Pull an upset or two and you don't have to be world beaters to get in but you do have to take care of business. Keep your SOS in the top 50 would be nice and in our conference it should be easy with Missouri coming into it. Bottom Line. Win. Ugly or pretty does not matter.

Brighter Note: Realize exactly what IE Vol has been through and understand why he stated what he did. I don't agree with it and it is fun to throw the thread up to him but I understand his thoughts. He made a mistake and will never be able to out from under it.

Other note: Excitement about this program is good but bottom line LOL is that we have not control over scheduling and we are all well over our pay grade talking about it.

Bolded: Did you really need to state this obvious fact. Duh. Bottom Line is RPI. Takes everything into consideration. Tweaks would help it. Lowest RPIs go to the dance it is easy. What has been done last two years. Explains Iona.

SOS + W/L + Other Teams RPIs + Other Teams W/L = RPI.

8 or 9 seed in tournament for a team that deserved to be in the Tourney that beat us twice. One or possible two and done versus NIT #1 seed with 3 home games for Tennessee is pretty nice prize for not making the tournament. No travel except for the final 2 games. Fan support. I like it. Nice reward for their effort. They earned it and deserved it. No shame for this team at all. I hope they take full advantage of it and win it.