The Reason UT Can No Longer Sign Elite WRs

#1
junder13

junder13

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#1
The first two lines below each game provide a breakdown of the leading two WRs from all 13 games from last season. The third line shows the combined stats for all WRs in each game (strictly showing the WR position, not TEs or RBs).
*The first paragraph was edited for clarity on the data provided below; I also edited the credited TD reception versus UGA (from Malone to Smith).

Bowling Green
Jauan Jennings 3 rec, 56 yards
Von Pearson 2 rec, 48 yards
10 rec, 171 yards, 17.1 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs

Oklahoma
Josh Smith 4 rec, 56 yards
Josh Malone 2 rec, 19 yards, 1 TD
11 rec, 115 yards, 10.5 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Malone)

Western Carolina
Preston Williams 3 rec, 98 yards, 2 TDs
Josh Malone 4 rec, 33 yards
15 rec, 189 yards, 12.6 avg yards per reception, 2 TDs (Williams)

Florida
Josh Smith 1 rec, 6 yards
Jauan Jennings 1 rec, 1 yard
2 rec, 7 yards, 3.5 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs
*No third receiver made a reception

Arkansas
Josh Smith 2 rec, 34 yards
Von Pearson 3 rec, 30 yards
12 rec, 110 yards, 9.2 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs

Georgia
Josh Malone 5 rec, 60 yards
Preston Williams 2 rec, 41 yards
12 rec, 179 yards, 14.9 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Josh Smith)
*edit: the one TD reception to a WR against UGA was mistakenly credited to Malone in the original post (Kamara had 2 receiving TDs)

Bama
Josh Malone 2 rec, 43 yards
Josh Smith 2 rec, 38 yards, 1 TD
8 rec, 122 yards, 15.3 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Smith)

Kentucky
Josh Malone 4 rec, 103 yards, 1 TD (75 yard reception)
Von Pearson 5 rec, 37 yards
11 rec, 156 yards, 14.2 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Malone)
*Only other receptions at WR: Jauan Jennings (1 for 11 yards) and Josh Smith (1 for 5 yards)
*If you remove the 75 bomb to Malone: 10 rec, 81 yards, 8.1 avg yards per reception

South Carolina
Von Pearson 8 rec, 121 yards, 1 TD
Josh Smith 3 rec, 42 yards
13 rec, 192 yards, 14.8 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Pearson)

North Texas
Josh Malone 4 rec, 38 yards,
Josh Smith 2 rec, 28 yards
13 rec, 136 yards, 10.5 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs

Missouri
Josh Malone 2 rec, 35 yards
Von Pearson 7 rec, 28 yards
9 rec, 63 yards, 7 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs
*No third receiver made a reception

Vandy
Josh Smith 4 rec, 50 yards
Von Pearson 3 rec, 40 yards, 2 TDs
7 rec, 90 yards, 12.9 avg yards per reception, 2 TDs (Pearson)
*No third receiver made a reception

Northwestern
Von Pearson 2 rec, 32 yards
Josh Malone 2 rec, 17 yards
7 rec, 77 yards, 11 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs


UT had a WR with more than 100 yards receiving in a single game only twice.
Not in one game did UT have multiple WRs with receiving TDs.
For the season, UT had only 9 TD receptions by WRs.
That stat against UF is absolutely unacceptable. I wonder when was the last time UT only had 2 receptions at the WR position for an entire game.

Butch Jones' offense does not utilize the WR position. Once I looked up the stats from last season, I understood why Higgins chose Clemson. This may change once Dobbs graduates but it also may be more related to CBJ's scheme than people realize. I do not think Dobbs is as bad a passer as the offense makes him look. Time will tell. Hopefully our under utilization of our WRs (in addition to our over rotation) changes starting with this season.
 
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#2
#2
How does that explain Calloway and Byrd from last year? Both of those guys were rated as elite.
 
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#5
#5
Went back and looked at Butch's years at Cincinnati. Other than a 1,000 yard receiver in 2010, the stats look very similar to our WR production. No one really stands out and a boatload of guys between 100-700 yards or so. It is what it is. If we start winning and continuing to win, I couldn't care less.
 
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#6
#6
Why is the stat against UF unacceptable? Our whole problem against the Gators for the past decade is that we couldn't get the running game going and now you're mad that we didn't throw the ball around?

And like the poster above me said, we signed Marquez Callaway and Tyler Byrd last year.

On top of that we got Jeff George and Brandon Johnson who are both solid. I do applaud you for going to such lengths to find something to complain about though, it can't be easy.
 
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#7
#7
junder13 said:
Here is a breakdown of the leading two WRs from all 13 games from last season. These stats are strictly showing the WR position, not TEs or RBs.

Bowling Green
Jauan Jennings 3 rec, 56 yards
Von Pearson 2 rec, 48 yards
10 rec, 171 yards, 17.1 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs

Oklahoma
Josh Smith 4 rec, 56 yards
Josh Malone 2 rec, 19 yards, 1 TD
11 rec, 115 yards, 10.5 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Malone)

Western Carolina
Preston Williams 3 rec, 98 yards, 2 TDs
Josh Malone 4 rec, 33 yards
15 rec, 189 yards, 12.6 avg yards per reception, 2 TDs (Williams)

Florida
Josh Smith 1 rec, 6 yards
Jauan Jennings 1 rec, 1 yard
2 rec, 7 yards, 3.5 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs
*No third receiver made a reception

Arkansas
Josh Smith 2 rec, 34 yards
Von Pearson 3 rec, 30 yards
12 rec, 110 yards, 9.2 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs

Georgia
Josh Malone 5 rec, 60 yards, 1 TD
Preston Williams 2 rec, 41 yards
12 rec, 179 yards, 14.9 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Malone)

Bama
Josh Malone 2 rec, 43 yards
Josh Smith 2 rec, 38 yards, 1 TD
8 rec, 122 yards, 15.3 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Smith)

Kentucky
Josh Malone 4 rec, 103 yards, 1 TD (75 yard reception)
Von Pearson 5 rec, 37 yards
11 rec, 156 yards, 14.2 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Malone)
*Only other receptions at WR: Jauan Jennings (1 for 11 yards) and Josh Smith (1 for 5 yards)
*If you remove the 75 bomb to Malone: 10 rec, 81 yards, 8.1 avg yards per reception

South Carolina
Von Pearson 8 rec, 121 yards, 1 TD
Josh Smith 3 rec, 42 yards
13 rec, 192 yards, 14.8 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Pearson)

North Texas
Josh Malone 4 rec, 38 yards,
Josh Smith 2 rec, 28 yards
13 rec, 136 yards, 10.5 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs

Missouri
Josh Malone 2 rec, 35 yards
Von Pearson 7 rec, 28 yards
9 rec, 63 yards, 7 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs
*No third receiver made a reception

Vandy
Josh Smith 4 rec, 50 yards
Von Pearson 3 rec, 40 yards, 2 TDs
7 rec, 90 yards, 12.9 avg yards per reception, 2 TDs (Pearson)
*No third receiver made a reception

Northwestern
Von Pearson 2 rec, 32 yards
Josh Malone 2 rec, 17 yards
7 rec, 77 yards, 11 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs


UT had a WR with more than 100 yards receiving in a single game only twice.
Not in one game did UT have multiple WRs with receiving TDs.
For the season, UT had only 9 TD receptions by WRs.
That stat against UF is absolutely unacceptable. I wonder when was the last time UT only had 2 receptions at the WR position for an entire game.

Butch Jones' offense does not utilize the WR position. Once I looked up the stats from last season, I understood why Higgins chose Clemson. This may change once Dobbs graduates but it also may be more related to CBJ's scheme than people realize. I do not think Dobbs is as bad a passer as the offense makes him look. Time will tell. Hopefully our under utilization of our WRs (in addition to our over rotation) changes starting with this season.
Click to expand...

quality work
 
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#10
#10
SECProudUT said:
I like the the part vs UK, "If you remove" like you are personally trying to make things look worse.
Click to expand...

Ditto...like saying "if you take all those great runs away, Chuck Webb was a below average back". :)
 
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#11
#11
I'm sure this is what other staffs are using with mutual recruits and one can see why a receiver would look at other options. Until the numbers change it probably will not get better.
 
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#12
#12
Rockytoptalker said:
Why is the stat against UF unacceptable? Our whole problem against the Gators for the past decade is that we couldn't get the running game going and now you're mad that we didn't throw the ball around?

And like the poster above me said, we signed Marquez Callaway and Tyler Byrd last year.

On top of that we got Jeff George and Brandon Johnson who are both solid. I do applaud you for going to such lengths to find something to complain about though, it can't be easy.
Click to expand...

rather than coaching to WIN. That is why it is unacceptable. In the 2nd half of that game, especially the 4th qtr, TN went ultra conservative. Same approach as the year before when FL was in Knoxville and UT lead 9-0 at the half but went on to lose. TN dominated the run game last year against FL but still lost. TN dominated the passing game in 2014 and WON the turnover battle but still found a way to lose to FL. The current drought against FL has everything to do with coaching and psyche more than rushing yds, passing yds, or turnover margins.

On the positive, I applaud Butch for bringing in Bob Shoop who is a better and more accomplished DC than John Jancek. That was an aggressive move by Butch that certainly entails risk
 
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#13
#13
Would you throw the ball all day when you have Hurd, Kamara, and Dobbs which is one of the top rushing attacks in the nation? Passing game is important and could be better but our rushing attack is elite and should be our go-to this year.
 
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#14
#14
KPT_VFL said:
Would you throw the ball all day when you have Hurd, Kamara, and Dobbs which is one of the top rushing attacks in the nation? Passing game is important and could be better but our rushing attack is elite and should be our go-to this year.
Click to expand...

A balanced passing/rushing offense is ideal. Especially when you have the athletes to do it. Dobbs holds the ball too long and just tucks it and runs too much imo. On pass plays, he needs to pass the ball.
 
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#15
#15
The running game is very good, however our running game will not be able to win against quality teams consistently without being able to have big plays in the passing game. I believe the best teams will be balanced in their attack. I think UT will be more balanced this season,
 
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#16
#16
OP, not sure how much more work it would be, but I would be interested to see the breakdown for the number of targets to our WRs as well. I just think it goes deeper than number of catches and "system" talk. Are they at least being targeted a reasonable number of times? Maybe drops? Maybe WR effort as has been discussed plays a part? Maybe QB accuracy?

To me, it's not like the WR position and the passing game has been ignored by Butch and the OC, I think it goes deeper to personnel/injuries etc. A lot of factors have played into the lack of success throwing the ball (strength of the OL and success of running game as well). I expect this year to show an uptick in passing and as JG or whoever wins the job next I expect that to continue. Especially losing Hurd and Kamara, but our OL being a strength moving forward.
 
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#17
#17
Vol_til_I_die said:
Went back and looked at Butch's years at Cincinnati. Other than a 1,000 yard receiver in 2010, the stats look very similar to our WR production. No one really stands out and a boatload of guys between 100-700 yards or so. It is what it is. If we start winning and continuing to win, I couldn't care less.
Click to expand...

go look at Central Michigan...you've got to look at the QB's.
 
#18
#18
We play too many WRs and our passing game isn't great. Also, our WR coaching has been heavily criticized. I don't think anyone positions their feet horizontally like our WRs are coached to do.
 
#19
#19
junder13 said:
Here is a breakdown of the leading two WRs from all 13 games from last season. These stats are strictly showing the WR position, not TEs or RBs.

Bowling Green
Jauan Jennings 3 rec, 56 yards
Von Pearson 2 rec, 48 yards
10 rec, 171 yards, 17.1 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs

Oklahoma
Josh Smith 4 rec, 56 yards
Josh Malone 2 rec, 19 yards, 1 TD
11 rec, 115 yards, 10.5 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Malone)

Western Carolina
Preston Williams 3 rec, 98 yards, 2 TDs
Josh Malone 4 rec, 33 yards
15 rec, 189 yards, 12.6 avg yards per reception, 2 TDs (Williams)

Florida
Josh Smith 1 rec, 6 yards
Jauan Jennings 1 rec, 1 yard
2 rec, 7 yards, 3.5 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs
*No third receiver made a reception

Arkansas
Josh Smith 2 rec, 34 yards
Von Pearson 3 rec, 30 yards
12 rec, 110 yards, 9.2 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs

Georgia
Josh Malone 5 rec, 60 yards, 1 TD
Preston Williams 2 rec, 41 yards
12 rec, 179 yards, 14.9 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Malone)

Bama
Josh Malone 2 rec, 43 yards
Josh Smith 2 rec, 38 yards, 1 TD
8 rec, 122 yards, 15.3 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Smith)

Kentucky
Josh Malone 4 rec, 103 yards, 1 TD (75 yard reception)
Von Pearson 5 rec, 37 yards
11 rec, 156 yards, 14.2 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Malone)
*Only other receptions at WR: Jauan Jennings (1 for 11 yards) and Josh Smith (1 for 5 yards)
*If you remove the 75 bomb to Malone: 10 rec, 81 yards, 8.1 avg yards per reception

South Carolina
Von Pearson 8 rec, 121 yards, 1 TD
Josh Smith 3 rec, 42 yards
13 rec, 192 yards, 14.8 avg yards per reception, 1 TD (Pearson)

North Texas
Josh Malone 4 rec, 38 yards,
Josh Smith 2 rec, 28 yards
13 rec, 136 yards, 10.5 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs

Missouri
Josh Malone 2 rec, 35 yards
Von Pearson 7 rec, 28 yards
9 rec, 63 yards, 7 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs
*No third receiver made a reception

Vandy
Josh Smith 4 rec, 50 yards
Von Pearson 3 rec, 40 yards, 2 TDs
7 rec, 90 yards, 12.9 avg yards per reception, 2 TDs (Pearson)
*No third receiver made a reception

Northwestern
Von Pearson 2 rec, 32 yards
Josh Malone 2 rec, 17 yards
7 rec, 77 yards, 11 avg yards per reception, 0 TDs


UT had a WR with more than 100 yards receiving in a single game only twice.
Not in one game did UT have multiple WRs with receiving TDs.
For the season, UT had only 9 TD receptions by WRs.
That stat against UF is absolutely unacceptable. I wonder when was the last time UT only had 2 receptions at the WR position for an entire game.

Butch Jones' offense does not utilize the WR position. Once I looked up the stats from last season, I understood why Higgins chose Clemson. This may change once Dobbs graduates but it also may be more related to CBJ's scheme than people realize. I do not think Dobbs is as bad a passer as the offense makes him look. Time will tell. Hopefully our under utilization of our WRs (in addition to our over rotation) changes starting with this season.
Click to expand...

This is the only part of your analysis I disagree with. And I'm not hating on Dobbs as he is a great kid, a great runner, and a great competitor, but he is also a very inconsistent passer, not just on the deeper balls but on the throws that should be cake for a major college QB. Just to pull a play out as an example, right before the critical 4th down TD throw to Smith late in the first half of the GA game, there was another 4th down and 4 from the GA 47, and Dobbs threw a simple out route to Pearson 5 yards downfield. But he threw the ball knee high and behind him. Miraculously, Pearson happened to slip on our sorry turf and fall as he was making his cut, which put the ball right in his chest while he was lying on the ground on his back. God smiled on us on that play, but it was a terrible throw on what should have been a routine and easy throw and catch. Dobbs has had this problem since he arrived, and at this point it just is what it is IMO.
 
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#20
#20
I see that there is already some misdirection/deflection going on in here in response to my thread. There is a subset of posters on VN that attack anything construed as negative.

#1
I like Callaway. He'll be very good. But his recruiting ranking was not "elite". He was a fringe top 100 player. I think he's much better than that but it doesn't change the fact that he was never viewed as "elite" as a recruit. Go back into his thread. A week before his announcement there was hardly any discussion on the kid. VQ even hinted multiple times as last as November that it was uncertain whether there would be a spot for Callaway in the 2016 class. As some of you may recall, we missed on several highly rated WRs last year. By the time Callaway committed, it was known that he was our top remaining WR target. FTR, I think he is good enough to have garnered a spot at any point during the 2016 recruiting season but there was some chatter that he may have been slow played during the season. Also, FTR, I had him on my prediction thread that I started in the summer. So don't make it seem like I'm overlooking him. Nevertheless, as I said, he was never considered "elite" by any recruiting service.

#2
Byrd is elite in my book. As a DB. He was also recruited as a DB. It is very likely he did not know he would be a WR starting out at UT. While this is the best decision for him to see the field early, I wonder if it would have impacted his decision to flip from Miami a few days before NSD had he known he would start his career at WR. Jennings is still a WR here despite his best position for a possible NFL future (likely) being S. Jennings was a rocket on special teams last year and had some exceptional hits. Maybe he gets moved there, maybe not. Byrd at least played WR in HS (and played it very well) so it may be more like a Keenan Allen story than Jennings. We'll see.

#3
I can only laugh at the comment that my thread is a slap in the face of current commits. Only Gray is currently rated anywhere near elite, which I would define as a 5-star ranking or, at the very least, a top 50 ranking. No other commit is even flirting with "elite" status as a recruit right now. This thread was specific to WRs though. Not being elite does not mean a recruit cannot produce on the field though. I doubt Cedric Wilson or Joey Kent were highly rated coming out of HS. Peerless Price may have been highly rated but I doubt he would have been labeled "elite" coming out of HS. This thread is not making a comment on a recruit or commit's potential in college. It's merely based on perception via recruiting ranking, not potential or a prediction on production. Keep in mind, this thread was placed in the recruiting forum, not football forum.

Plus, I am using the facts of last year's WR stats. Unless you find errors in my stats then take your sunshine pumping back to threads where facts are void and opinion is many.
 
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#22
#22
If I'm not mistaken didn't Josh Smith have a really big TD catch against GA
 
#23
#23
junder13 said:
CMU plays in the MAC where top 25 defenses do not exist. There are probably 5-8 top 25 defenses in the modern SEC every year. Apples:eek:ranges
Click to expand...

we are talking about offensive philosophy....and the productivity. They are playing against MAC competition. so it is apples and apples. Last I checked, Cincinnati didn't play in the SEC either.
 
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#24
#24
JPL said:
rather than coaching to WIN. That is why it is unacceptable. In the 2nd half of that game, especially the 4th qtr, TN went ultra conservative. Same approach as the year before when FL was in Knoxville and UT lead 9-0 at the half but went on to lose. TN dominated the run game last year against FL but still lost. TN dominated the passing game in 2014 and WON the turnover battle but still found a way to lose to FL. The current drought against FL has everything to do with coaching and psyche more than rushing yds, passing yds, or turnover margins.

On the positive, I applaud Butch for bringing in Bob Shoop who is a better and more accomplished DC than John Jancek. That was an aggressive move by Butch that certainly entails risk
Click to expand...
He was referring to the stat itself, as if we should've been tossing the ball around (Specifically to the WR's, not even including TE's and RB's) the whole game. If you want to get into Butch's decisions to not go for 2 after Hurd's final touchdown or whether or not we should have called different plays in the later moments of the game is a different argument.
 
#25
#25
Orangedogsrule said:
OP is overthinking the situation.
Click to expand...

I've seen this response from you to many of my posts. We appear to have different views, and that's fine. But it also appears that using any cognitive reasoning whatsoever is "overthinking" to you. Thus, we can just assume you view any future post from me as overthinking and we can save you the doltish response.
 
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