The Road To Hoover

#101
#101
HeyBuddy said:
I am telling you that Fullerton makes more of a commitment to baseball, in comparison to its competition, than UT does. Way different programs...with way different challenges.

Also, who is the great baseball mind that you have in mind to change the program? Again, if you said that, insert coach's name, was the fit that UT needed and then supported your rationale...that is a different story. Tennessee is not a baseball hotbed...it protects in state students (a good thing if you are a TN taxpayer), it is two hours from a powerhouse, and in a conference where many programs have made bigger strides to keep up with the level of competition that is getting better every year.
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"In comparison to its competitors"?

You have to realize that you are doing an apples and bananas comparison, then.

Who do I have in mind?

A lot of folks used the same defense of Derek Dooley before he was fired.

And that question is completely irrelevant. Until there is an opening throwing names out really doesn't matter. But what we do know is that Ws aren't happening with the status quo of the last 5 years.

As I said, in what other sport - mens or womens - at UT would a change not be imminent in the same situation - 5 years, needle hasn't moved, coach's contract expiring with no extension on the table?
 
#102
#102
HeyBuddy said:
I am telling you that Fullerton makes more of a commitment to baseball, in comparison to its competition, than UT does. Way different programs...with way different challenges.

Also, who is the great baseball mind that you have in mind to change the program? Again, if you said that, insert coach's name, was the fit that UT needed and then supported your rationale...that is a different story. Tennessee is not a baseball hotbed...it protects in state students (a good thing if you are a TN taxpayer), it is two hours from a powerhouse, and in a conference where many programs have made bigger strides to keep up with the level of competition that is getting better every year.
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CSF is like being the skinniest fat kid. They clearly have a great program not only regionally but nationally and I'd make the case they're one of the 5 best programs of all time, in terms of what they've done in the postseason.

But comparing what UT spends or commits to its program vs what competitors do and what CSF does vs competitors is an incomparable scenario. Outside of LBSU and Irvine, the rest of the league, is not very consistent in terms of success. Meanwhile the SEC perennially has 7+ teams in the top 25 and 3-4 in the top 10. It's much easier to make a bigger commitment than 2-3 programs who actually care, like in the Big West, and do so vs 8-10 who are constantly trying to outspend or out-commit the others.
 
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#103
#103
bowlinggreenvol said:
CSF is like being the skinniest fat kid. They clearly have a great program not only regionally but nationally and I'd make the case they're one of the 5 best programs of all time, in terms of what they've done in the postseason.

But comparing what UT spends or commits to its program vs what competitors do and what CSF does vs competitors is an incomparable scenario. Outside of LBSU and Irvine, the rest of the league, is not very inconsistent in terms of success. Meanwhile the SEC perennially has 7+ teams in the top 25 and 3-4 in the top 10. It's much easier to make a bigger commitment than 2-3 programs who actually care, like in the Big West, and do so vs 8-10 who are constantly trying to outspend or out-commit the others.
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Not to get in the middle of yawls thing...it's comparable in as much as CSF spends at the top of that league, and the teams at the top in that category are generally at the top of the standings too. Obviously there are some exceptions every year, but year in, year out, CSF spends at the top of their league while we are somewhere are around 12 in that regard in the SEC.
 
#104
#104
vol66 said:
Not to get in the middle of yawls thing...it's comparable in as much as CSF spends at the top of that league, and the teams at the top in that category are generally at the top of the standings too. Obviously there are some exceptions every year, but year in, year out, CSF spends at the top of their league while we are somewhere are around 12 in that regard in the SEC.
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Yes, but we all know we'll never spend at the level it takes to be tops or even top 3 in this league. And my point was, is it that hard to outspend your competition if they're not even trying? For random figure sake, if all 10 teams in one league are capable of spending $1m per year on their program but only 3 choose to do so vs all 10 teams capable of spending $1m on their program and 8 choosing to do so, who is going to have more competition?
 
#105
#105
bowlinggreenvol said:
Yes, but we all know we'll never spend at the level it takes to be tops or even top 3 in this league. And my point was, is it that hard to outspend your competition if they're not even trying? For random figure sake, if all 10 teams in one league are capable of spending $1m per year on their program but only 3 choose to do so vs all 10 teams capable of spending $1m on their program and 8 choosing to do so, who is going to have more competition?
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The problem is that what is spent from team to team in any one conference varies dramatically from the figures I've seen.

As a fan of college baseball and of UT I realize that we may never spend what LSU spends but where do we draw the line?

For me, it's rather insulting that we have a budget of 111 million dollars and our budget for baseball is at the bottom of the conference. Obviously, I'm also a football fan and realize that's where the money comes from and I realize that we are going to spend a lot on football.

Still, not showing the midweek games, for instance or not making a decision on a coach because you don't want to pay a buy out with one year left, or not giving a coach what he was promised when he took the job...those are all things that trouble me if we have to go through a search again...because the coaches worth getting are going to know all of this better than I do, that's for sure.
 
#106
#106
HeyBuddy said:
Once again, I find this post so shallow and short-sighted. If you have a coach that is better than CDS wanting to come to TN than by all means give him a shot. That person should be someone that has gone into a situation where they have had significant challenges and somehow...through better coaching....better climate...motivation...connections...overcome the challenges to be successful. A coach that comes to mind is someone like Tracy Smith, when he was at Indiana (now at ASU). That would have been a coach worth looking at.

The programs that you have listed would have many applicants if one of them were to open. I challenge you to find an up and coming coach that brings excitement to UT baseball in a way that will turn the program around. Stop blaming CDS...this is a coach that has been to the CWS 6 times (4 as an assistant, 2 as a head coach) including being part of a staff that won it in 2004 (he was the pitching coach and recruiting coord.), his Fullerton teams won the Big West 3 of the 4 years, and he has worked on national teams. It is time to realize the commitment that UT is making to baseball in not good enough. You got lucky by having CDS take a chance and agree to come out here. He has the ability to coach! His track record proves it! The issue is deeper than coaching. Everyone, including CDS, thought by investing in a top tier coach, that would solve everything...it didn't. It is time for the UT athletic department to really take the time and analyze why they are where they are. It may mean a new coach (one that can implement their plan on turning this program around), but they damn well better have one ready to come here before they let CDS go. By the way...just a prediction....if CDS is let go...he ends up at USC or Long Beach State a few years and is in the CWS before UT.
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Spot on! Short- sighted fans are quick to pull the trigger yet fail to see the sad alternatives. :hi:
 
#107
#107
HeyBuddy said:
Once again, I find this post so shallow and short-sighted. If you have a coach that is better than CDS wanting to come to TN than by all means give him a shot. That person should be someone that has gone into a situation where they have had significant challenges and somehow...through better coaching....better climate...motivation...connections...overcome the challenges to be successful. A coach that comes to mind is someone like Tracy Smith, when he was at Indiana (now at ASU). That would have been a coach worth looking at.

The programs that you have listed would have many applicants if one of them were to open. I challenge you to find an up and coming coach that brings excitement to UT baseball in a way that will turn the program around. Stop blaming CDS...this is a coach that has been to the CWS 6 times (4 as an assistant, 2 as a head coach) including being part of a staff that won it in 2004 (he was the pitching coach and recruiting coord.), his Fullerton teams won the Big West 3 of the 4 years, and he has worked on national teams. It is time to realize the commitment that UT is making to baseball in not good enough. You got lucky by having CDS take a chance and agree to come out here. He has the ability to coach! His track record proves it! The issue is deeper than coaching. Everyone, including CDS, thought by investing in a top tier coach, that would solve everything...it didn't. It is time for the UT athletic department to really take the time and analyze why they are where they are. It may mean a new coach (one that can implement their plan on turning this program around), but they damn well better have one ready to come here before they let CDS go. By the way...just a prediction....if CDS is let go...he ends up at USC or Long Beach State a few years and is in the CWS before UT.
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Lots of great points here. I agree that CDS is a excellent baseball man and has a resume full of success. Maybe he is just not the right coach for this particular job. More than ever college baseball at the SEC level is very much a results oriented deal. These guys are paid several hundred thousand dollars a year with assistants who make north of 100k. Some jobs are tougher than others and have their own unique challenges. That said, I just don't see how you can extend a coach who is completing the worst five year stretch of SEC results in his first five seasons as head coach than any baseball coach in the history of the league.

Everybody recognizes UT has always been a tough job. Outside of a five year stretch in the 90's the results have been mediocre at best since the 1970's. It's past time for a serious evaluation of why that is and what can be changed and what is just what it is. The program is stale and in my opinion needs new leadership.

I have no doubt that if CDS lands another head job on the west coast he will be successful. He is a known quantity out there and most likely would be taking over a program that is set up for success and just needs the right guy. I think UT needs to find if that type individual is out there for their own program who can overcome some obstacles and put life back in UT baseball.
 
#109
#109
bowlinggreenvol said:
CSF is like being the skinniest fat kid. They clearly have a great program not only regionally but nationally and I'd make the case they're one of the 5 best programs of all time, in terms of what they've done in the postseason.

But comparing what UT spends or commits to its program vs what competitors do and what CSF does vs competitors is an incomparable scenario. Outside of LBSU and Irvine, the rest of the league, is not very consistent in terms of success. Meanwhile the SEC perennially has 7+ teams in the top 25 and 3-4 in the top 10. It's much easier to make a bigger commitment than 2-3 programs who actually care, like in the Big West, and do so vs 8-10 who are constantly trying to outspend or out-commit the others.
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The reason it is comparable is because at Fulleron, Irvine, and Long Beach there is a bigger commitment…correlation…better results. I 100% agree that trying to be a contender in the SEC is a very different challenge. You are making my point…in order for things to change at UT…there must me a master plan. It needs to start with the AD. They need to look at what the competition does better than them (mostly recruiting 11.7 and making that work better for out of state kids), maybe it does involve a new philosophy on the field (head coach), publicize the heck out of their top players (Senzel is a recruiting tool)…my point has always been a simple one…getting a new coach is only putting a new driver in the same car…it isn't gonna change the car. Look at softball for example…Michigan #1 program 6 players for CA, Florida softball 6 players from CA, Tennessee softball 4 players (by the way…that is out of usually 20 players).

In the West there is a WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange). Participating schools allow students in certain majors to attend at 150% of the in state tuition. This has helped University of Utah, ASU, Arizona, etc…compete with CA schools.

Once again, my comments stem from the knee-jerk calls for, "Change the Coach!" Way deeper issue.
 
#110
#110
Saw an interesting note this morning. There could be up to 5 first round picks this year who were products of Tennessee high schools from the class of '13.

Nick Senzel (UT)
Jordan Sheffield (Vandy)
Brian Reynolds (Vandy)
Dakota Hudson (Miss State)
Will Craig (Wake Forest)

The only reason Senzel is at UT is that Georgia let him out his National Letter of Intent after their coach was fired. Serrano's biggest mistake was the staff he brought in when he was hired. Nobody who was known at all in this part of the country. It would be like someone from the southeast taking a job out west and having their staff full of coaches from this part of the country.
 
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#111
#111
HeyBuddy said:
You are making my point…in order for things to change at UT…there must me a master plan. It needs to start with the AD. They need to look at what the competition does better than them (mostly recruiting 11.7 and making that work better for out of state kids), maybe it does involve a new philosophy on the field (head coach), publicize the heck out of their top players (Senzel is a recruiting tool)…my point has always been a simple one…getting a new coach is only putting a new driver in the same car…it isn't gonna change the car.
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great analysis of the situation, you can put Richard Petty in a Pinto and he still isn't going to win a race.........
 
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#119
#119
9-8! double scores two more..2nd and 3rd one out..single could win it now!
 
#125
#125
appyvol said:
I feel bad for the arky pitcher. Coach left him out to dry.
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yeah if this thing goes too long..we might see some guys that haven't pitched since HS warming up..ten pitchers used so far for both teams
 
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