The Russia Hoax: The Illicit Scheme to Clear Hillary Clinton and Frame Donald Trump

#501
#501
lawgator1 said:
I don't know how I could be any clearer: Whether the Russian effort ACTUALLY changed the outcome is unknowable. I don't even know how you figure out whether a particular vote was changed.

What we DO know is that they tried to weigh in on his behalf. The issue is why. Especially given what we see of late, every American should be concerned about why Russia wanted Trump to win, and that is even more so should he run in 2024.
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Yea 200k really was really an investment
Forget Trump anyways and focus more on your current leadership corruption
 
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#502
#502
Orangeburst said:
I can agree but when it comes to this issue it was unbelievably corrupt. He should of burnt that place down
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Sure but that would have required leadership, organization and competent people around him. Neither were a strength of his admin
 
#503
#503
lawgator1 said:
I don't know how I could be any clearer: Whether the Russian effort ACTUALLY changed the outcome is unknowable. I don't even know how you figure out whether a particular vote was changed.

What we DO know is that they tried to weigh in on his behalf. The issue is why. Especially given what we see of late, every American should be concerned about why Russia wanted Trump to win, and that is even more so should he run in 2024.
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They wanted Hillary to lose. That's why they helped Bernie.
 
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#504
#504
lawgator1 said:
I don't know how I could be any clearer: Whether the Russian effort ACTUALLY changed the outcome is unknowable. I don't even know how you figure out whether a particular vote was changed.

What we DO know is that they tried to weigh in on his behalf. The issue is why. Especially given what we see of late, every American should be concerned about why Russia wanted Trump to win, and that is even more so should he run in 2024.
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in the big scheme it was a pretty minimal effort by the Russians - it's exaggerated because of the topic of this thread which turned out to be a Clinton scheme rather than the collusion narrative.

the Russian effort was also directed at dividing the electorate so in the big picture assuming there's some real danger of a Trump/Russia combination is just nuts.
 
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#505
#505
volinbham said:
in the big scheme it was a pretty minimal effort by the Russians - it's exaggerated because of the topic of this thread which turned out to be a Clinton scheme rather than the collusion narrative.

the Russian effort was also directed at dividing the electorate so in the big picture assuming there's some real danger of a Trump/Russia combination is just nuts.
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You can't dismiss either the division angle or the prefer Trump angle. Both are equally valid.
 
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#506
#506
lawgator1 said:
You can't dismiss either the division angle or the prefer Trump angle. Both are equally valid.
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You ever think that it was not pro Trump as it was anti Hills? I mean that is the narrative of explanation why Biden beat Trump
 
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#510
#510
Orangeburst said:
You ever think that it was not pro Trump as it was anti Hills? I mean that is the narrative of explanation why Biden beat Trump
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Whether you refer to it as prefer Trump or prefer not HRC, its the same thing.

Of the two, they wanted Trump to win.

And as I said the other day I have come to believe of late that its most likely not in the form of an actual connection to Trump as I think we'd have heard of it by now. More that they just thought he was inexperienced and could be manipulated via appeal to his ego.

And in that respect history shows that judgment to have been correct.
 
#511
#511
lawgator1 said:
Whether you refer to it as prefer Trump or prefer not HRC, its the same thing.

Of the two, they wanted Trump to win.

And as I said the other day I have come to believe of late that its most likely not in the form of an actual connection to Trump as I think we'd have heard of it by now. More that they just thought he was inexperienced and could be manipulated via appeal to his ego.

And in that respect history shows that judgment to have been correct.
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You defy the election of Biden
So it took you 5 years to realize you had a inaccurate assumption
 
#514
#514
volinbham said:
I'm not dismissing it - just saying your implication that it signals some big, bad Trump/Putin actions/events is nuts
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What LG refuses to accept is that for Putin it was anyone BUT Hillary. He helped Bernie too. She called him illegitimate. He despises the woman. Hillary said he targeted her for that reason.
 
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#515
#515
volinbham said:
I'm not dismissing it - just saying your implication that it signals some big, bad Trump/Putin actions/events is nuts
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Depends on your definition of "big, bad Trump/Putin actions/events."

If one assumes right now its the most benign explanation and means simply that Putin estimates that Trump is relatively easily manipulated, then that should be something i would hope 2024 voters keep in mind.
 
#516
#516
lawgator1 said:
Depends on your definition of "big, bad Trump/Putin actions/events."

If one assumes right now its the most benign explanation and means simply that Putin estimates that Trump is relatively easily manipulated, then that should be something i would hope 2024 voters keep in mind.
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that makes no sense whatsoever
 
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#517
#517
lawgator1 said:
Depends on your definition of "big, bad Trump/Putin actions/events."

If one assumes right now its the most benign explanation and means simply that Putin estimates that Trump is relatively easily manipulated, then that should be something i would hope 2024 voters keep in mind.
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you should be able to point to actions Trump took that materially helped Putin from his first term if this is true.

and you have to ignore actions Trump took that materially hurt Putin such as thwarting Nordstream 2 and trying to ramp up our exports of LNG to Europe to reduce their reliance on Russia.
 
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#518
#518
Orangeburst said:
that makes no sense whatsoever
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Why?

Putin has invaded a neighbor, is threatening to use nuclear weapons, and the only things that have appeared to put him in his place are 1) the World arming Ukraine; 2) NATO resolve against any further escalation; and 3) US-led sanctions regime.

Trump has blasted all of those things, both in and out of office. Seems to me that voters should consider that when thinking of pulling the lever for Trump.
 
#519
#519
lawgator1 said:
Why?

Putin has invaded a neighbor, is threatening to use nuclear weapons, and the only things that have appeared to put him in his place are 1) the World arming Ukraine; 2) NATO resolve against any further escalation; and 3) US-led sanctions regime.

Trump has blasted all of those things, both in and out of office. Seems to me that voters should consider that when thinking of pulling the lever for Trump.
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Where are you seeing items 1-3?
 
#520
#520
Orangeburst said:
Where are you seeing items 1-3?
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