The Russia Hoax: The Illicit Scheme to Clear Hillary Clinton and Frame Donald Trump

#476
#476
lawgator1 said:
Not provable. Not knowable.

What we do know is they tried. The only legitimate question is, why?

At the extremes the possible explanations are, the Russians:

1) simply hated the idea of HRC enough that they figured they would help Trump.

2) had some ins with the Trump camp. Think Manafort. Trump may not even have known or realized it was happening.

3) figured Trump was inexperienced and would be easier to manipulate by appealing to his ego.

4) had actual dirt on Trump



I used to be in the #4 camp but now that's lower on the list for me because I think we'd have heard about it by now.

I think it was some combination of 1 to 3. If Trump voters are okay with that, well, that's on them.
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There is no reason to believe Hillary and the Democrats wouldn’t have been super friendly to Russian interests. They have a demonstrated history.
 
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#477
#477
DC_Vol said:
There is no reason to believe Hillary and the Democrats wouldn’t have been super friendly to Russian interests. They have a demonstrated history.
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Then why do you think the Russians tried to help Trump? (Not succeeded, we can't know that, but they TRIED) Why?
 
#481
#481
lawgator1 said:
Then why do you think the Russians tried to help Trump? (Not succeeded, we can't know that, but they TRIED) Why?
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Igor Danchenko is the only Russian that has been arrested and charged and guess who he was helping and working for ? Yep, none other than HRC. You won’t bother to state that fact or even acknowledge it, because you have no objectivity, you post as nothing more than a partisan troll.
 
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#483
#483
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#484
#484
lawgator1 said:
Not provable. Not knowable.

What we do know is they tried. The only legitimate question is, why?

At the extremes the possible explanations are, the Russians:

1) simply hated the idea of HRC enough that they figured they would help Trump.

2) had some ins with the Trump camp. Think Manafort. Trump may not even have known or realized it was happening.

3) figured Trump was inexperienced and would be easier to manipulate by appealing to his ego.

4) had actual dirt on Trump



I used to be in the #4 camp but now that's lower on the list for me because I think we'd have heard about it by now.

I think it was some combination of 1 to 3. If Trump voters are okay with that, well, that's on them.
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I think the fact that Russian interference initially pandered for Bernie and Stein until Clinton won the nomination, then switched to Trump, reinforces the point that all four points miss the point.
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Exposing Russia’s Effort to Sow Discord Online: The Internet Research Agency and Advertisements | Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Exposing Russia’s Effort to Sow Discord Online: The Internet Research Agency and Advertisements
The (Mueller) indictment also notes that the IRA:
“[H]ad a strategic goal to sow discord in the U.S. political system, including the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Defendants posted derogatory information about a number of candidates, and by early to mid-2016, Defendants’ operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump (“Trump Campaign”) and disparaging Hillary Clinton. Defendants made various expenditures to carry out those activities, including buying political advertisements on social media in the names of U.S. persons and entities. Defendants also staged political rallies inside the United States, and while posing as U.S. grassroots entities and U.S. persons, and without revealing their Russian identities and ORGANIZATION affiliation, solicited and compensated real U.S. persons to promote or disparage candidates. Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities.”

Additionally, in their October 2016 joint attribution statement, the Department of Homeland Security and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence laid out the Intelligence Community’s assessment that senior Russian government officials had directed a hacking-and-dumping campaign to interfere in the November 2016 U.S. election. In its subsequent Intelligence Community Assessment (ICA) in January 2017, the Intelligence Community further documented Moscow’s interference in our election and its efforts to assist Donald Trump’s campaign and harm Hillary Clinton’s.

According to the ICA:
“Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency.”

The ICA also assesses that:
“Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump.”

Putin and the Russian government, the ICA explained:
“[A]spired to help President-elect Trump’s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him.”

As Ranking Member Adam Schiff stated during the Committee’s November 2017 open hearing with senior officials from Facebook, Twitter, and Google:
“[The Russian] social media campaign was designed to further a broader Kremlin objective: sowing discord in the U.S. by inflaming passions on a range of divisive issues. The Russians did so by weaving together fake accounts, pages, and communities to push politicized content and videos, and to mobilize real Americans to sign online petitions and join rallies and protests. Russia exploited real vulnerabilities that exist across online platforms and we must identify, expose, and defend ourselves against similar covert influence operations in the future. The companies here today must play a central role as we seek to better protect legitimate political expression, while preventing cyberspace from being misused by our adversaries.”
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The House and Senate hearings covered no new ground and relied on the Mueller investigation and ICA. The bottom line is that Russia or Russian cyber agents wanted to create havoc and did so.

But not among the American people. With a laughable pittance of media presence, they thoroughly sucked in the body politic, including congress, intel, FBI and DOJ. For instance, Brennan reported Sept. 2016 to FBI and the Obama WH that Clinton was running a propaganda campaign with the intent of fabricating a collusion narrative between Trump and Russia. But he then turned around in Jan. 2017 and included the shite dossier in the ICA report which gave it the veneer of credence. He also hid behind the media propaganda blitz that postured the ICA report as the intel consensus when it never was. There is no credible reason for his conduct except political motive. Caveat: Russia - or whomever - did suck in one group of the American people, the 2/3rds of Democrats who believe Russia changed vote tallies to elect Trump.

It's difficult to accept anything the House, intel, FBI, or Mueller produced as anything other than a premise to unseat Trump. For example, there is still no evidence that data was not exfiltrated from DNC servers locally rather than a hack, or that Russia had anything to do with it. Under oath, Crowdstrike admitted as much in a remarkable departure from public statement. Mueller's team was dressed down in federal court for painting Konstantin Kilimnik as a Russian intel officer, without substantiation. Today, both are still unsubstantiated 'common knowledge' that a likely majority of Americans have accepted as fact. Biden's Treasury has doubled down on that without producing evidence either. Then 50 former intel officers tried to convince Americans that the Hunter Biden laptop is Russian disinfo, in effect running a disinfo campaign to interfere in the 2020 election.

Clinton was a war-mongering known quantity who cackled about the inexplicable destruction of Libya, advocated for the same in Syria, and had impugned the legitimacy of Putin's election. Trump had run on no new conflicts. Obama State Dept. extensively used Manafort and Kilimnik as Russian, Ukrainian, and Euro go-betweens and advisors, so scratch that theory, too.

It isn't any harder than that to understand why Russia was Anyone But Clinton or their motive to create political chaos. Thanks to the aforementioned left and never-Trumpers, they peed themselves over their success.
 
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#485
#485
DNI Releases CIA Documents on Clinton’s ‘Plan’ to Tie Trump Campaign to Russia
Former CIA Director John Brennan briefed former President Obama on Hillary Clinton’s “plan” to tie the Trump campaign to Russia as a means of distracting the public from her private email server scandal before the 2016 election, according to newly declassified documents.

Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe on Tuesday declassified Brennan’s handwritten notes along with a CIA memo showing that officials referred the alleged scheme to the FBI for potential investigation.

“Today, at the direction of President Trump, I declassified additional documents relevant to ongoing Congressional oversight and investigative activities,” Ratcliffe said in a statement.

Brennan’s notes, which were taken after he briefed Obama on the intelligence, cite “a proposal from one of her foreign policy advisers to vilify Donald Trump by stirring up a scandal claiming interference by the Russian security service,” which was “alleged approved by Hillary Clinton.”

The heavily-redacted CIA memo references “an exchange discussing U.S. presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s approval of a plan concerning U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump and Russian hackers hampering U.S. elections as a means of distracting the public from her use of a private email server.”

In 2016, the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee contracted Fusion GPS and former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele to compile the controversial Russian dossier, which purported to draw a connection between the Trump campaign and Russia and contained salacious allegations about Trump, then the Republican nominee.

The dossier was later used in applications to surveil Trump associate Carter Page. The Justice Department’s inspector general has since concluded that the FBI did not inform the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court that the dossier was unreliable.

“The following information is provided for the exclusive use of your bureau for background investigative action or lead purposes as appropriate,” states the CIA memo, which was sent to then-FBI Director James Comey and Peter Strzok, then the deputy assistant director of counterintelligence.

Last week, Comey told the Senate Judiciary Committee that he did not remember whether he received an investigative referral on Clinton in September 2016.

“That doesn’t ring any bells with me,” Comey said.

“That’s a pretty stunning thing that it doesn’t ring a bell,” Republican Chairman Lindsey Graham responded. “You get this inquiry from the intelligence community to look at the Clinton campaign trying to create a distraction, accusing Trump of being a Russian agent or a Russian stooge.”

The newly declassified documents have been forwarded to the House and Senate Intelligence Committees by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence.
 
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#486
#486
lawgator1 said:
Then why do you think the Russians tried to help Trump? (Not succeeded, we can't know that, but they TRIED) Why?
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Maybe Pootin didn't want to have to discuss business with the shrew? Hiliary and her voice would drive any sane person to suicide. HTH did she ever gather a following? Obviously despite his current blunders, Pootin is a lot more discriminating than the average democrat.
 
#488
#488
My new favorite trend on this forum is Trumpkins saying “this is why we got Biden” about things that aren’t Donald Trump. 😂

It’s like AOC saying Democrats aren’t winning elections because they aren’t woke enough, days before San Francisco kicks their school board to the curb.

Not even going to argue. Just gonna start handing out likes for this nonsense.
 
#491
#491
lawgator1 said:
I've said many times we DO know they interfered committed election fraud to help him. We DON'T know how to measure the effect of their efforts so it's impossible to conclude they actually swung the election result.
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Fixed your post
 
#492
#492
SuzyVol said:
Are you answering with respect to your vote or for the votes of the electorate in general?
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In general.

As for myself, as it unfolded I can say only that it seemed to me that there was something going on in social media to justify the army of resentment that grew behind Trump. Can I say that effort was specifically because of Russian interference? No. I don't know that its ever been drilled down to the point of saying explicitly that a given post on facebook on a given day and at a given time was posted by Russian intelligence.

I don't think that level of specificity has been shared with us, which might be an issue of tradecraft.
 
#493
#493
lawgator1 said:
In general.

As for myself, as it unfolded I can say only that it seemed to me that there was something going on in social media to justify the army of resentment that grew behind Trump. Can I say that effort was specifically because of Russian interference? No. I don't know that its ever been drilled down to the point of saying explicitly that a given post on facebook on a given day and at a given time was posted by Russian intelligence.

I don't think that level of specificity has been shared with us, which might be an issue of tradecraft.
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That’s called a confirmation bias and echo chamber . When you only see the resentment , propaganda, agenda driven falsehoods and ignore the other points of view.
 
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#494
#494
lawgator1 said:
In general.

As for myself, as it unfolded I can say only that it seemed to me that there was something going on in social media to justify the army of resentment that grew behind Trump. Can I say that effort was specifically because of Russian interference? No. I don't know that its ever been drilled down to the point of saying explicitly that a given post on facebook on a given day and at a given time was posted by Russian intelligence.

I don't think that level of specificity has been shared with us, which might be an issue of tradecraft.
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or you could apply occam's razor and recall that Clinton basically ignored the Midwest while Trump specifically campaigned on things the working class used to seek from Democrats (bringing back mfg, buy American, etc). The blue wall fell and that's where Clinton lost the election. It's fundamental bad strategy.

a couple hundred grand of Facebook ads can't compete with that
 
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#496
#496
The Russians didn't really care who won. Their goal is to sow discord around the US and that worked like a charm. Thin skinned Trump being at the head was just a bonus. Maybe the right was just easier to troll?
 
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#497
#497
utvolpj said:
The Russians didn't really care who won. Their goal is to sow discord since the US and that worked like a charm. Thin skinned Trump being at the head was just a bonus. Maybe the right was just easier to troll?
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or maybe Trump should of been livid at the result of being investigated and impeached to no end
 
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#499
#499
utvolpj said:
Trump looked to pick a fight even when there wasn't one there. He should have just shut his mouth and uninstalled Twitter
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I can agree but when it comes to this issue it was unbelievably corrupt. He should of burnt that place down
 
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#500
#500
volinbham said:
or you could apply occam's razor and recall that Clinton basically ignored the Midwest while Trump specifically campaigned on things the working class used to seek from Democrats (bringing back mfg, buy American, etc). The blue wall fell and that's where Clinton lost the election. It's fundamental bad strategy.

a couple hundred grand of Facebook ads can't compete with that
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I don't know how I could be any clearer: Whether the Russian effort ACTUALLY changed the outcome is unknowable. I don't even know how you figure out whether a particular vote was changed.

What we DO know is that they tried to weigh in on his behalf. The issue is why. Especially given what we see of late, every American should be concerned about why Russia wanted Trump to win, and that is even more so should he run in 2024.
 
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