The Section 103 Postgame Report - Belmont

#326
#326
hatvol96 said:
Comparing Jay Williams to any of those guys is laughable. Rondo was a plus defender from the moment he stepped on an NBA floor. Williams was a turnstile. Williams was Dee Brown with hype. Nothing more.
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Then how did a Bulls' franchise that had so much success shortly before that whiff so bad on him? I mean, surely this must have been one of the biggest goofs in professional sports scouting, no?
 
#328
#328
hatvol96 said:
The list of complete busts at Williams' size would crash this site with its volume. Good job finding three to counterbalance those.
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It wasn't my job to list those. It was my job to point out the hole in your argument -- that he was going to be "just another undersized player" -- when there are plenty of players to prove that size really isn't the determining factor in your hypothetical argument that he was never going to be a good NBA player.

So what was the factor? Lack of effort and heart on defense? Poor decision-making?
 
#329
#329
TennNC said:
Then how did a Bulls' franchise that had so much success shortly before that whiff so bad on him? I mean, surely this must have been one of the biggest goofs in professional sports scouting, no?
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The people who drafted Williams are the same ones who thought giving Ron Mercer near max money was a key step on the road back to the top. They also traded Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler and Ron Artest for nothing.
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#330
#330
BigPapaVol said:
He certainly wasn't a pass first PG, which most of the undersized guys are, with the uberquick being exceptions (Tiny, KJ and AI). I'm a JWill fan, but be wasn't ever going to be a great PG. He was going to score at the NBA level, but never defend and never be a floor general.
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What makes you think he was never going to be a floor general?

And if he could score, don't you think the NBA experts who scouted and drafted him had thought of a way to utilize his talents? Perhaps he could've played something other than PG?
 
#331
#331
TennNC said:
It wasn't my job to list those. It was my job to point out the hole in your argument -- that he was going to be "just another undersized player" -- when there are plenty of players to prove that size really isn't the determining factor in your hypothetical argument that he was never going to be a good NBA player.

So what was the factor? Lack of effort and heart on defense? Poor decision-making?
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Williams was incredibly soft. He was an average shooter who fashioned himself a great one. Any team with him running the show was destined to stink.
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#333
#333
hatvol96 said:
Williams was incredibly soft. He was an average shooter who fashioned himself a great one. Any team with him running the show was destined to stink.
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He sure fooled college basketball for three seasons.
 
#334
#334
TennNC said:
What makes you think he was never going to be a floor general?

And if he could score, don't you think the NBA experts who scouted and drafted him had thought of a way to utilize his talents? Perhaps he could've played something other than PG?
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He was a no d playing shoot first PG who was a mediocre shooter and wasn't going to beat NBA defenders to the hole like he did college guards. Playing him at the two would have murdered a defense because be was atrocious. He was an atrocious defender even at Duke.

I think the people who drafted him were buffoons. Even undersized, be could overpower and outleap collegiate defenders and he never could at the NBA level and his shooting didn't make up the difference like it did for KJ at PHX.
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#335
#335
TennNC said:
He sure fooled college basketball for three seasons.
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He went to the hole on college basketball for three seasons. He didn't have that option at the NBA level. Not big or quick enough.
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#336
#336
TennNC said:
He sure fooled college basketball for three seasons.
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You were extolling the greatness of Randolph Childress in another thread. How long did it take for him to be exposed as a worthless NBA player after dominating the sainted ACC?
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#337
#337
JZVOL said:
How's that an exception to the rule?

Guys flop at the top of the draft every year, while players selected later go on to have great careers.

Nick Van Exel was picked 37th in the '93 draft.

Calbert Cheaney went 6th, Rex Walters was picked 16th, Shawn Bradley 2nd.. John Best from Tennesse Tech was picked one spot ahead of Van Exel.
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Thank you again for kindly stating the exceptions. I would be more than happy to introduce you to Mr. Rule, but it would take a lot of text...and its late.
 
#338
#338
hatvol96 said:
You were extolling the greatness of Randolph Childress in another thread. How long did it take for him to be exposed as a worthless NBA player after dominating the sainted ACC?
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And Childress was a helluva lot better PG than JWill.
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#339
#339
BigPapaVol said:
He went to the hole on college basketball for three seasons. He didn't have that option at the NBA level. Not big or quick enough.
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How dare you insinuate NBA defenders are better than those in the ACC?
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#341
#341
BigPapaVol said:
He was a no d playing shoot first PG who was a mediocre shooter and wasn't going to beat NBA defenders to the hole like he did college guards. Playing him at the two would have murdered a defense because be was atrocious. He was an atrocious defender even at Duke.

I think the people who drafted him were buffoons. Even undersized, be could overpower and outleap collegiate defenders and he never could at the NBA level and his shooting didn't make up the difference like it did for KJ at PHX.
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It sure sounds like you reeeally like JWill, especially given your penchant for tough-nosed, plus defenders.
 
#342
#342
TennNC said:
It sure sounds like you reeeally like JWill, especially given your penchant for tough-nosed, plus defenders.
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I loved him at Duke, because he could get to the hole when he couldn't shoot it. Hated the D and it was their ultimate downfall, but I loved him going to the hole.

K will be the first to tell you that JWill's D intensity drove him nuts.
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#343
#343
hatvol96 said:
You were extolling the greatness of Randolph Childress in another thread. How long did it take for him to be exposed as a worthless NBA player after dominating the sainted ACC?
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I was reminiscing about how enjoyable it was watching him play college basketball. I didn't realize he had anything to do with the chances of Jay Williams becoming a good NBA player.

Let me say this, too - yes, I enjoy watching ACC basketball. I certainly don't have an inferiority complex toward the league b/c the team I grew up watching plays in a crappy, inferior conference. I think it's actually okay (meaning, not a crime, or an embarrassment) to appreciate the rivalries, close contests, and talent that league produces year in and year out. Nor does it mean that, by default, I have to bash every other league, including the SEC.

Seeing as I'm emotionally divested from the ACC, I am amused by your attempts to undermine it whenever you get the chance - there's some background story there that could be interesting. Maybe not.

But if you'd like to play that game, I'll gladly take that league's performance over any other during my lifetime (34 years today, in fact), including the cancerous Big East. You name the metrics; I'll follow suit.

-NBA draft picks?
-NBA all-stars?
-National Championships?
-Final Fours?
-Wins?
 
#344
#344
TennNC said:
It sure sounds like you reeeally like JWill, especially given your penchant for tough-nosed, plus defenders.
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Why is it a surprise? I like the hell out of Chris Lofton, but I'm never going to argue for his as a great pro prospect. He, like JW, had a skill that made him a dominant collegiate offensive player.
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#345
#345
BigPapaVol said:
I loved him at Duke, because he could get to the hole when he couldn't shoot it. Hated the D and it was their ultimate downfall, but I loved him going to the hole.

K will be the first to tell you that JWill's D intensity drove him nuts.
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so you loved that one aspect of his game, but as for the rest, you didn't care for him at all, correct?

that seems more appropriate given your other post.
 
#346
#346
BigPapaVol said:
Why is it a surprise? I like the hell out of Chris Lofton, but I'm never going to argue for his as a great pro prospect. He, like JW, had a skill that made him a dominant collegiate offensive player.
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I've not seen you bash Lofton's efforts on either end of the floor. I can't imagine you'd penalize a guy for physical shortcomings (lack of size, lateral quickness, etc.). Lofton always gave the effort, even if he had some shortcomings relative to NBA aspirations.

Sounds like you believed JWill had all the physical skills but just didn't give the effort. Or maybe he lacked heart, which was his handicap. Just seems like that would really frustrate you, no?
 
#347
#347
TennNC said:
I was reminiscing about how enjoyable it was watching him play college basketball. I didn't realize he had anything to do with the chances of Jay Williams becoming a good NBA player.

Let me say this, too - yes, I enjoy watching ACC basketball. I certainly don't have an inferiority complex toward the league b/c the team I grew up watching plays in a crappy, inferior conference. I think it's actually okay (meaning, not a crime, or an embarrassment) to appreciate the rivalries, close contests, and talent that league produces year in and year out. Nor does it mean that, by default, I have to bash every other league, including the SEC.

Seeing as I'm emotionally divested from the ACC, I am amused by your attempts to undermine it whenever you get the chance - there's some background story there that could be interesting. Maybe not.

But if you'd like to play that game, I'll gladly take that league's performance over any other during my lifetime (34 years today, in fact), including the cancerous Big East. You name the metrics; I'll follow suit.

-NBA draft picks?
-NBA all-stars?
-National Championships?
-Final Fours?
-Wins?
Click to expand...
You're the one who was dense enough to talk about Williams' college career in a discussion about why a team had to be mentally deficient to use the second pick in the draft on him. I just used another ACC icon to show how utterly devoid of relevance that is.
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#348
#348
hatvol96 said:
You're the one who was dense enough to talk about Williams' college career in a discussion about why a team had to be mentally deficient to use the second pick in the draft on him. I just used another ACC icon to show how utterly devoid of relevance that is.
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If college performance is not an indicator of NBA performance, then why do NBA scouts attend college games?
 
#349
#349
TennNC said:
so you loved that one aspect of his game, but as for the rest, you didn't care for him at all, correct?

that seems more appropriate given your other post.
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Second sentence confused me. First one: yes, I liked him as a player at Duke but didn't think he was going to be a beast at the next level. He overpowered people at Duke and loved that style game. He pressured defenses and made his team better offensively all the time. Defense, not so much.
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#350
#350
TennNC said:
I was reminiscing about how enjoyable it was watching him play college basketball. I didn't realize he had anything to do with the chances of Jay Williams becoming a good NBA player.

Let me say this, too - yes, I enjoy watching ACC basketball. I certainly don't have an inferiority complex toward the league b/c the team I grew up watching plays in a crappy, inferior conference. I think it's actually okay (meaning, not a crime, or an embarrassment) to appreciate the rivalries, close contests, and talent that league produces year in and year out. Nor does it mean that, by default, I have to bash every other league, including the SEC.

Seeing as I'm emotionally divested from the ACC, I am amused by your attempts to undermine it whenever you get the chance - there's some background story there that could be interesting. Maybe not.

But if you'd like to play that game, I'll gladly take that league's performance over any other during my lifetime (34 years today, in fact), including the cancerous Big East. You name the metrics; I'll follow suit.

-NBA draft picks?
-NBA all-stars?
-National Championships?
-Final Fours?
-Wins?
Click to expand...
Considering the Big East hasn't been a conference for 34 years, that's a good way to get a head start.
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