The shut down thread

#2,528
#2,528
05_never_again said:
Trump certainly is partially to blame for just how divisive he is. However, look at something like tariffs. These are things that Democrats, especially union Democrats, have advocated for years. It isn't exactly a conservative position. Trump is strongly in favor of them, yet Democrat support for them is tepid at absolute best and all the "neoliberal" Dems of course oppose them. Why? Because they can't stand to be associated with a policy Trump supports, even if it is something they're previously on record as supporting.

All of those descriptions you made of Trump - it is really easy to make an argument that Hillary Clinton had those exact same characteristics. The reason I think it is more difficult for you to see that is 1) you're more inclined to agree with Hillary's politics than Trump's and 2) Clinton has the personal charisma of a damp rag.
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I understand fully that that is the counter argument. I just happen to disagree.
The 30% that despise Hillary would be equivalent to the extreme 30% that despise Trump. (we would never agree to the legitimacy of those feelings)
But the big difference comes form that middle 40%. 85% of that middle 40% has grown to increasingly hate and distrust Trump. That would not have been the scenario had Clinton won. Of course we can never actually know that, but we do know it could not have been worse.
 
#2,529
#2,529
luthervol said:
I understand fully that that is the counter argument. I just happen to disagree.
The 30% that despise Hillary would be equivalent to the extreme 30% that despise Trump. (we would never agree to the legitimacy of those feelings)
But the big difference comes form that middle 40%. 85% of that middle 40% has grown to increasingly hate and distrust Trump. That would not have been the scenario had Clinton won. Of course we can never actually know that, but we do know it could not have been worse.
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Keep watching CNN Cletus, that’s what they want you to believe. The majority of independents including minorities have benefited substantially under Trump, unemployment figures don’t lie nor does the labor participation rate. Keep up the feigned out rage ! Orange man bad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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#2,530
#2,530
luthervol said:
I understand fully that that is the counter argument. I just happen to disagree.
The 30% that despise Hillary would be equivalent to the extreme 30% that despise Trump. (we would never agree to the legitimacy of those feelings)
But the big difference comes form that middle 40%. 85% of that middle 40% has grown to increasingly hate and distrust Trump. That would not have been the scenario had Clinton won. Of course we can never actually know that, but we do know it could not have been worse.
Click to expand...
85% of the middle 40% does not "hate and distrust" Trump. If so his approval rating would be Dubya-like. You think this middle 40% would not grow to distrust Hillary - I'm sorry, I'm not sure how you say that with a straight face. It's more or less a rule of politics that presidents become more unpopular as time goes on, with some exceptions (Bill Clinton being one). Pressure on Hillary would be immense if she had won. Republicans would instantaneously have began an investigation into her emails, in addition to alleging other scandals (real and imagined), which would weigh on her throughout her entire presidency. Similar to Mueller and Trump. She wouldn't be able to sign any meaningful legislation into law because Repubs would control Congress. It wouldn't have been a very successful or consequential first 2 years.

One thing that political opposition does, like clockwork, is underestimate their opponent's strengths and overestimates their opponents weaknesses. Liberals do it with Trump, despite it already have burned them extremely badly. Conservatives did it with Obama. Liberals did it with Dubya. Conservatives did it with Slick Willie. It's amazing.
 
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#2,532
#2,532
nuclearjunky said:
FLOTUS on a small Learjet flying to FLA < Pelosi and a hoard of useless minions on a 747 to Europe and beyond to accomplish what exactly? She’s a damn Congress woman and has zero influence on the national stage.
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She’s going to collude with other countries. Hope Trump admin is assembling a special council.
 
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#2,533
#2,533
nuclearjunky said:
FLOTUS on a small Learjet flying to FLA < Pelosi and a hoard of useless minions on a 747 to Europe and beyond to accomplish what exactly? She’s a damn Congress woman and has zero influence on the national stage.
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That's some learjet. But I'm sure this West Palm Beach trip was very important to the national interest. It's all good.

 
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#2,534
#2,534
luthervol said:
I understand fully that that is the counter argument. I just happen to disagree.
The 30% that despise Hillary would be equivalent to the extreme 30% that despise Trump. (we would never agree to the legitimacy of those feelings)
But the big difference comes form that middle 40%. 85% of that middle 40% has grown to increasingly hate and distrust Trump. That would not have been the scenario had Clinton won. Of course we can never actually know that, but we do know it could not have been worse.
Click to expand...
93% of stats are made up by 85% of people within the first 18% of the point they are making.
 
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#2,535
#2,535
05_never_again said:
85% of the middle 40% does not "hate and distrust" Trump. If so his approval rating would be Dubya-like. You think this middle 40% would not grow to distrust Hillary - I'm sorry, I'm not sure how you say that with a straight face. It's more or less a rule of politics that presidents become more unpopular as time goes on, with some exceptions (Bill Clinton being one). Pressure on Hillary would be immense if she had won. Republicans would instantaneously have began an investigation into her emails, in addition to alleging other scandals (real and imagined), which would weigh on her throughout her entire presidency. Similar to Mueller and Trump. She wouldn't be able to sign any meaningful legislation into law because Repubs would control Congress. It wouldn't have been a very successful or consequential first 2 years.

One thing that political opposition does, like clockwork, is underestimate their opponent's strengths and overestimates their opponents weaknesses. Liberals do it with Trump, despite it already have burned them extremely badly. Conservatives did it with Obama. Liberals did it with Dubya. Conservatives did it with Slick Willie. It's amazing.
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I was going with 15% of 40 = 6 and 6 + 30 = 36......the 36 percenters.
I agree and have said many times, a Hillary presidency would have been a long term detriment to the democratic party. The right wing media and its extremists would have been relentless in a way that makes the Trump resistance look trivial. Trump may have been predestined as the guy who takes us to rock bottom as a nation. (that is if I believed in predestination)
It's easy to say that the loser underestimated the winner, but it would also have to be true that the winner underestimated the loser.
 
#2,536
#2,536
FLVOL69 said:
Keep watching CNN Cletus, that’s what they want you to believe. The majority of independents including minorities have benefited substantially under Trump, unemployment figures don’t lie nor does the labor participation rate. Keep up the feigned out rage ! Orange man bad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Lot's of people who have "benefited" still find Trump despicable and anxiously await the quickly approaching day when the White House doors hit his ass on his way out.
 
#2,537
#2,537
Septic said:
If he "declares" a national emergency in order to circumvent the separation of powers and their checks and balances - will you then agree that he believes he is a king or will you internally rationalize the justification for doing an end run around the people's wishes?
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I believe he will be setting a dangerous precedent that the next liberal scum will be certain to take advantage of as well
 
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