The Soft Bigotry of...you know, the thing...

#77
#77
allvol123 said:
How does it depend on them participating? It would fall apart if they didnt vote?
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Yes. Democracy relies on some critical mass. If 10% of people voted would the nation think its valid? Would it be valid, even on a democractic scale? For some reason popularity has some inherent value to people.

If we had a system that held the pieces responsible for results you may not need that many people participating. But since the faults of democracy get averaged out to the crowds you need some decently large number of people supporting it. Which includes the idiots.
 
#80
#80
LouderVol said:
Yes. Democracy relies on some critical mass. If 10% of people voted would the nation think its valid? Would it be valid, even on a democractic scale? For some reason popularity has some inherent value to people.

If we had a system that held the pieces responsible for results you may not need that many people participating. But since the faults of democracy get averaged out to the crowds you need some decently large number of people supporting it. Which includes the idiots.
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Dont agree.
 
#82
#82
LouderVol said:
You would accept democracy if only 10% of people voted? On a national scale?
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I dont agree that is the percentage of intelligent citizens we have. I'm not sure I'd want to live in a country where I thought only 10% were that smart.
 
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#83
#83
allvol123 said:
I dont agree that is the percentage of intelligent citizens we have. I'm not sure I'd want to live in a country where I thought only 10% were that smart.
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Smart enough to make nation or state wide decisions? With the supposed best interest of the citizens at heart?
 
#88
#88
LouderVol said:
Yeah that's going to be less than 10%. I dont think you could actually find 1% that met those requirements.
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Then we certainly dont need more voting.

We need to be quiet as a mouse during elections and hope that as few as possible vote. If you need MTV, NFL, telling you to vote or an unsolicited mail in ballot, then I am hoping you dont vote.
 
#89
#89
I'm thinking we need to change the voting laws even more... one vote for breathing, another vote if you produce a tax return where you paid at least $50 in income tax, and a third time if you own property....once for each piece, wherever you own that property.......
 
#90
#90
Wireless1 said:
I'm thinking we need to change the voting laws even more... one vote for breathing, another vote if you produce a tax return where you paid at least $50 in income tax, and a third time if you own property....once for each piece, wherever you own that property.......
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No. All that does is move those who push their bs from the poor to the rich.
 
#91
#91
USAFgolferVol said:
All US citizens should be able to vote, should they choose to do so. Are you implying less is better? That's much more so a power grab than more people voting
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No, most of us are arguing a couple of points. One person gets one vote if qualified to vote, and that means showing proof of eligibility - we have a lot of illegals and other non citizens here. The other point goes back to the concept with citizens of a complete democracy raiding the treasury. The only way you prevent that kind of irresponsibility is not allowing votes by those who live on government dole and who do not have a real stake in funding the treasury. Are you forgetting that biden went down to GA (figuratively from his basement) to offer payoffs to GA voters if they selected the dem candidates in the senate runoff? Our "representatives" are absolutely willing to offer bribes for votes; only people with something to lose in the process don't buy the bribe. We won't get a poll tax or proof of income as a qualifier to vote, but at least limiting laziness helps.
 
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#92
#92
LouderVol said:
No. All that does is move those who push their bs from the poor to the rich.
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Not from the poor to the rich, from the freeloader to the producers.
As a high school student working 10 hours a week you'll pay $50 in income tax (assuming you're some else's dependant) and if this law passed some enterprising individual (maybe me) would find a way to subdivide an address so that you could buy property for a very nominal amount - heck I might give it away to people who'd vote my way.....of course there'd also be a new economy where I'd trade a joint (in the legal states) for you "legal" property rather than you have to pay taxes.
 
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#93
#93
n_huffhines said:
Nobody said anything about anybody being incapable.

Do you think everybody knows their SS#? Seems likely that out of 350m people, there are some who do not. Would you bet that they are poor or well-to-do?
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If you don’t know your SS#, don’t have a Drivers License or a state ID, you can also submit;

a utility bill;
a bank statement;
a government check;
a paycheck;
government document with name and address
 
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#94
#94
hog88 said:
We hit that in 1992.
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Probably 1971 when we dropped the voting age was a bigger hit. A lot of kids with no life experience and no concept of taxation, benefits, and the ultimate costs to them added to the voting rolls.

BTW, I did miss your "hit that" point with respect to 1992.
 
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#95
#95
AM64 said:
Probably 1971 when we dropped the voting age was a bigger hit. A lot of kids with no life experience and no concept of taxation, benefits, and the ultimate costs to them added to the voting rolls.
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.
 
#97
#97
LouderVol said:
Yes. Democracy relies on some critical mass. If 10% of people voted would the nation think its valid? Would it be valid, even on a democractic scale? For some reason popularity has some inherent value to people.

If we had a system that held the pieces responsible for results you may not need that many people participating. But since the faults of democracy get averaged out to the crowds you need some decently large number of people supporting it. Which includes the idiots.
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So instead we have a large percentage of people who consider the government invalid based on what low intelligence or low qualification voters picked, and that gross incompetence is somehow better? I do think your point about critical mass is important BTW.
 
#98
#98
Wireless1 said:
Not from the poor to the rich, from the freeloader to the producers.
As a high school student working 10 hours a week you'll pay $50 in income tax (assuming you're some else's dependant) and if this law passed some enterprising individual (maybe me) would find a way to subdivide an address so that you could buy property for a very nominal amount - heck I might give it away to people who'd vote my way.....of course there'd also be a new economy where I'd trade a joint (in the legal states) for you "legal" property rather than you have to pay taxes.
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Our nation has always allowed the "freeloaders" to vote. That's one of the things that made us different from the Brits. You dont need to own property yourself to be productive.

Plenty of property taxes being paid by apartments in cities.
 
#99
#99
LouderVol said:
Our nation has always allowed the "freeloaders" to vote. That's one of the things that made us different from the Brits. You dont need to own property yourself to be productive.

Plenty of property taxes being paid by apartments in cities.
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No, we haven't always allowed the "freeloaders" to vote.
 
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#100
#100
hog88 said:
No, we haven't always allowed the "freeloaders" to vote.
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Sorry. Poll taxes were deemed unconstitutional. As were all the other methods to keep people from voting. Even a couple amendments about it.
 
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