The Star Wars 8 SPOILER thread.

[VolsSportsFan]

My point in saying that was to illustrate that I don't have a blanket, across the board problem with movies that depict women, minorities, or diversity of any kind that stems from me being some kind of racist or sexist as some on here want to insenuate. I'm only saying it about THIS particular movie because it feels incredibly forced and obvious and I find it distracting and phony. If you or anyone else thinks that makes me racist or sexist, you're off your nut! And it's my experience that those who go around saying "I have black friends" are usually lying. That's why I said what I said.

Then again, if I thought the actual characters in this series were better developed, I might not notice it at all. That's why I said maybe the problem I'm having isn't the diversity itself but just weak character development. :dunno:

I am not off my nut! I am squarely on my nut!

To bring it back around to common ground, I will agree Rose is a terrible character. I think they killed off the wrong Asian female character.

 

[BenGrimm]

My point in saying that was to illustrate that I don't have a blanket, across the board problem with movies that depict women, minorities, or diversity of any kind that stems from me being some kind of racist or sexist as some on here want to insenuate. I'm only saying it about THIS particular movie because it feels incredibly forced and obvious and I find it distracting and phony. If you or anyone else thinks that makes me racist or sexist, you're off your nut! And it's my experience that those who go around saying "I have black friends" are usually lying. That's why I said what I said.

Then again, if I thought the actual characters in this series were better developed, I might not notice it at all. That's why I said maybe the problem I'm having isn't the diversity itself but just weak character development. :dunno:

Your second paragraph is more reasonable. I thought was Rose terrible and Finn was a waste in this movie due solely to their storyline. Not one moment did i think “gee this would have been better if a white guy was involved”.

I do agree that Disney/Lucasfilm went out of their way to diversify the cast. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that nor do I think they did it to push some ridiculous anti-white agenda. They just wanted to bring the franchise into the 21st century. .

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Your second paragraph is more reasonable. I thought was Rose terrible and Finn was a waste in this movie due solely to their storyline. Not one moment did i think “gee this would have been better if a white guy was involved”.

I do agree that Disney/Lucasfilm went out of their way to diversify the cast. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that nor do I think they did it to push some ridiculous anti-white agenda. They just wanted to bring the franchise into the 21st century. .

I don't literally think Disney is anti-white. But I do think it's silly for any studio to set up specific parameters around their creation in order to fill a quota, thinking it will maximize the bottom line. That goes completely against the whole creative process. That sort of thing needs to come together naturally, not contrived and pre-meditated. Do you REALLY think these movies are as successful as they are because of their diversity? Give me a break. Star Wars has NEVER had trouble raking in huge dollars, no matter what sex, race, creed, or color the characters were. How about you find the right PERSON for the role, regardless of what sex/ethnicity they are? Good example? Daisy Ridley as Rey! GREAT choice for that role! Love her! She's perfectly cast! Bad examples? Rose and Fin. Terrible, Terrible choices! I've loved John Boyega in other things. However he is not convincing in this role at all. Same with Rose, who I maintain looks like a fan in cosplay. She doesn't "fit" in this universe to me. Poe, he's alright, I guess. But they're selling him as the new Han Solo but he's not. Not even close to the same charm and charisma.

 

[bignewt]

Spoiler alert...Disney is the true evil empire.

 

[BenGrimm]

I don't literally think Disney is anti-white. But I do think it's silly for any studio to set up specific parameters around their creation in order to fill a quota, thinking it will maximize the bottom line. That goes completely against the whole creative process. That sort of thing needs to come together naturally, not contrived and pre-meditated. Do you REALLY think these movies are as successful as they are because of their diversity? Give me a break. Star Wars has NEVER had trouble raking in huge dollars, no matter what sex, race, creed, or color the characters were. How about you find the right PERSON for the role, regardless of what sex/ethnicity they are? Good example? Daisy Ridley as Rey! GREAT choice for that role! Love her! She's perfectly cast! Bad examples? Rose and Fin. Terrible, Terrible choices! I've loved John Boyega in other things. However he is not convincing in this role at all. Same with Rose, who I maintain looks like a fan in cosplay. She doesn't "fit" in this universe to me. Poe, he's alright, I guess. But they're selling him as the new Han Solo but he's not. Not even close to the same charm and charisma.

I don’t know what quotas they are going for per se or if it’s just an open door to any all actors. Regardless it’s something I don’t give much consideration to going into the movie. At no point did Rose take me out of the story because I thought “oh she’s just in here to check the Asian box”. Now her storyline wasn’t very good. That I can agree on.

If they are new characters then their ethnicity is defined by the actor hired from that point forward. It’s up to the writers and directors to make the characters interesting from there.

OT: I’m pretty excited about Black Panther and I doubt I will relate to many characters in that one.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I don't literally think Disney is anti-white. But I do think it's silly for any studio to set up specific parameters around their creation in order to fill a quota, thinking it will maximize the bottom line. That goes completely against the whole creative process. That sort of thing needs to come together naturally, not contrived and pre-meditated. Do you REALLY think these movies are as successful as they are because of their diversity? Give me a break. Star Wars has NEVER had trouble raking in huge dollars, no matter what sex, race, creed, or color the characters were. How about you find the right PERSON for the role, regardless of what sex/ethnicity they are? Good example? Daisy Ridley as Rey! GREAT choice for that role! Love her! She's perfectly cast! Bad examples? Rose and Fin. Terrible, Terrible choices! I've loved John Boyega in other things. However he is not convincing in this role at all. Same with Rose, who I maintain looks like a fan in cosplay. She doesn't "fit" in this universe to me. Poe, he's alright, I guess. But they're selling him as the new Han Solo but he's not. Not even close to the same charm and charisma.

Rose sucks. I think Finn himself is a good character, but they've wasted him. Poe I still like.

 

[Vol_Nation398]

Rose sucks. I think Finn himself is a good character, but they've wasted him. Poe I still like.

Poe is good and I'm sure will have a bigger role in the next film.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Rose sucks. I think Finn himself is a good character, but they've wasted him. Poe I still like.

For someone who trained his whole life to fight as a Stormtrooper, I find Finn weak and greatly lacking in self-confidence. I don't know if that's how the character is written or if its Boyega's acting but it just doesn't work for me.

 

[BenGrimm]

For someone who trained his whole life to fight as a Stormtrooper, I find Finn weak and greatly lacking in self-confidence. I don't know if that's how the character is written or if its Boyega's acting but it just doesn't work for me.

Well he was janitor. Probably because he didn’t have a natural killer instinct. His story is definitely about learning to be brave and stop running away. I found that to be a little redundant in TLJ though.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

I am a huge SW fan and I did liked how Luke’s story ended.

Same. It’s literally never happened before (that we know of) in the Star Wars universe. The effort to force project himself across the galaxy killed him. Imo it’s better than some cliched lightsaber battle.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Spoiler alert...Disney is the true evil empire.

That’s the Yankees.

 

[Rockytoptalker]

I don't hate TLJ or TFA by any stretch of the imagination, but I watched Rogue One again last night and I can't get over how much more I love it compared to them. I guess I appreciate the fact that it's a grittier film and the action sequences are a lot better, plus it also graced us with Vader's hallway scene. I wish Edwards could've directed all of the sequels.

Again, it's just my opinion and I'm not ragging on the other two sequels.

 

[BenGrimm]

I don't hate TLJ or TFA by any stretch of the imagination, but I watched Rogue One again last night and I can't get over how much more I love it compared to them. I guess I appreciate the fact that it's a grittier film and the action sequences are a lot better, plus it also graced us with Vader's hallway scene. I wish Edwards could've directed all of the sequels.

Again, it's just my opinion and I'm not ragging on the other two sequels.

I put RO atop the Disney Era.

I think that it takes place during my favorite time period of SW has a lot to do with it.

 

[Rockytoptalker]

I put RO atop the Disney Era.

I think that it takes place during my favorite time period of SW has a lot to do with it.

That too. It's cool seeing a Star Wars film based during the days of the Empire made in the modern era. We'll have another one of those with the Han Solo movie coming up, but as we've discussed before I'm not anticipating too much with that one. Too bad the Obi Wan film is still a couple of years away

 

[VolsSportsFan]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXlao2KNYjQ[/youtube]

 

[BenGrimm]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht9kRsLLhjg[/youtube]

 

[BenGrimm]

Watched on Digital Download tonight with my kids (their first viewing), niece (9) & nephew (11) who where over for a sleep over. Despite my nephew talking through the entire thing I think my kids (ages 3,5,6.5) liked what they saw but even they paused at flying space Leia and started giggling. My niece says this is here second favorite SW after RotJ.

As for my take after 3rd viewing, I can’t say it was the most peaceful viewing but I still liked it just as much as I did the first time. Has its problems but overall a solid Star Wars movie. Still rank it second of the Disney era behind RO. Canto Bite even gets a little better but maybe just because I know how long it lasts. Easier to hold my nose I guess.

 

[jakez4ut]

I don't hate TLJ or TFA by any stretch of the imagination, but I watched Rogue One again last night and I can't get over how much more I love it compared to them. I guess I appreciate the fact that it's a grittier film and the action sequences are a lot better, plus it also graced us with Vader's hallway scene. I wish Edwards could've directed all of the sequels.

Again, it's just my opinion and I'm not ragging on the other two sequels.

I put RO atop the Disney Era.

I think that it takes place during my favorite time period of SW has a lot to do with it.

agree with both of you. RO is by far the best one. and it may even have passed empire for me as my favorite.

as i watched RO the only thing i could think is "man, if we could have had the first 3 made like this........"

the scope of RO was just awesome...so many different settings/systems involved....and it was very gritty. had just enough humor with empire droid....and the story was great.

i liked vii because it just hit all the right buttons tying the old story to the new, and ending a couple story lines the right way, and starting some new ones....

viii, i didn't hate it, but i left that movie feeling like it accomplished nothing, except just opening up options for completely new story. which his fine.

i liked the way Luke went out. i did not like the way the skywalker storyline wrapped up. i mean you had 6 movies, all dedicated to that story, and it ends with Luke basically being a failure, who ultimately is responsible for the rebirth of the dark side anyway?

basically, my conclusion for the skywalker story is that the skywalkers were, for all intents and purposes, set up to fail, and fail they did. Annakin you could argue shouldn't have ever been trained, but is, and turns, and is the most evil sith lord ever destroying the Jedi basically. he turns back, only to die immediately after, his only contribution being his own redemption, and allowing his son to continue on...alone. sure it helped bring down the empire...but as we have now learned.....

Leia has a son, that also turns out to be a servant of the dark side, as Luke repeats the same mistake Obi Wan makes, and winds up quitting on his last mission from Yoda on passing on what he learned. Yoda's last parting shot..."failure is a good teacher".

you could just call the first 8 episodes "the skywalker tragedy".


definitely looking forward to the Kanobi and Han Solo movies. hope they stick to the same formula for RO.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

agree with both of you. RO is by far the best one. and it may even have passed empire for me as my favorite.

as i watched RO the only thing i could think is "man, if we could have had the first 3 made like this........"

the scope of RO was just awesome...so many different settings/systems involved....and it was very gritty. had just enough humor with empire droid....and the story was great.

i liked vii because it just hit all the right buttons tying the old story to the new, and ending a couple story lines the right way, and starting some new ones....

viii, i didn't hate it, but i left that movie feeling like it accomplished nothing, except just opening up options for completely new story. which his fine.

i liked the way Luke went out. i did not like the way the skywalker storyline wrapped up. i mean you had 6 movies, all dedicated to that story, and it ends with Luke basically being a failure, who ultimately is responsible for the rebirth of the dark side anyway?

basically, my conclusion for the skywalker story is that the skywalkers were, for all intents and purposes, set up to fail, and fail they did. Annakin you could argue shouldn't have ever been trained, but is, and turns, and is the most evil sith lord ever destroying the Jedi basically. he turns back, only to die immediately after, his only contribution being his own redemption, and allowing his son to continue on...alone. sure it helped bring down the empire...but as we have now learned.....

Leia has a son, that also turns out to be a servant of the dark side, as Luke repeats the same mistake Obi Wan makes, and winds up quitting on his last mission from Yoda on passing on what he learned. Yoda's last parting shot..."failure is a good teacher".

you could just call the first 8 episodes "the skywalker tragedy".


definitely looking forward to the Kanobi and Han Solo movies. hope they stick to the same formula for RO.

If I had known that was what they were going to do to the Skywalkers...I would have never started watching anything SW. It is total BS.

It makes every victory, and every sacrifice meaningless.

 

[BenGrimm]

agree with both of you. RO is by far the best one. and it may even have passed empire for me as my favorite.

as i watched RO the only thing i could think is "man, if we could have had the first 3 made like this........"

the scope of RO was just awesome...so many different settings/systems involved....and it was very gritty. had just enough humor with empire droid....and the story was great.

i liked vii because it just hit all the right buttons tying the old story to the new, and ending a couple story lines the right way, and starting some new ones....

viii, i didn't hate it, but i left that movie feeling like it accomplished nothing, except just opening up options for completely new story. which his fine.

i liked the way Luke went out. i did not like the way the skywalker storyline wrapped up. i mean you had 6 movies, all dedicated to that story, and it ends with Luke basically being a failure, who ultimately is responsible for the rebirth of the dark side anyway?

basically, my conclusion for the skywalker story is that the skywalkers were, for all intents and purposes, set up to fail, and fail they did. Annakin you could argue shouldn't have ever been trained, but is, and turns, and is the most evil sith lord ever destroying the Jedi basically. he turns back, only to die immediately after, his only contribution being his own redemption, and allowing his son to continue on...alone. sure it helped bring down the empire...but as we have now learned.....

Leia has a son, that also turns out to be a servant of the dark side, as Luke repeats the same mistake Obi Wan makes, and winds up quitting on his last mission from Yoda on passing on what he learned. Yoda's last parting shot..."failure is a good teacher".

you could just call the first 8 episodes "the skywalker tragedy".


definitely looking forward to the Kanobi and Han Solo movies. hope they stick to the same formula for RO.

Well if the Skywalkers truly brought balance for eternity the the whole story of SW would have ended there. Some type of conflict is needed going forward or we would have some pretty boring stories. Luke kinda spelled it out for Rey when he was having her feel the force. There is a never ending cycle of life and destruction and life returning. Snoke says it again when Rey confronts him as well. Whenever one side becomes stronger the other will rise to meet it.

I wouldn’t say Luke completely failed either. He did reignite hope throughout the galaxy. He sparked the light to push back the dark. Twice actually.

Also the Skywalker saga isn’t over yet. One more to go and I guarantee Luke will be a presence in some way.

Lastly, even though we, the audience, were introduced to SW via the Skywalker Saga there has always been a greater Galaxy and bigger story going on. The Skywalkers are just part of it.

 

[jakez4ut]

If I had known that was what they were going to do to the Skywalkers...I would have never started watching anything SW. It is total BS.

It makes every victory, and every sacrifice meaningless.

yep. and i'm really hoping that the new girl, despite the efforts to dissuade the notion, is in some way related to the skywalker or kanobi clans, so there's still some semblance of that story arc left.

cause it is a BS way for that all to go out, considering all that went in to building it up to the crescendo that ROTJ was. i mean, you go thru all that, only to get to Luke Freaking Skywalker fading in to nothing all by himself on a deserted island on some planet not in the charts?

i mean really... a father/son epic, where, in the end, nothing that Annakin/Darth Vader did wound up mattering....the jedi are still gone, the empire is no more.. there's still no balance...why kill the emperor? why try to bring luke in to the fold? why try to turn Annakin back?

cool story bro. cool story indeed. lol:

 

[jakez4ut]

Well if the Skywalkers truly brought balance for eternity the the whole story of SW would have ended there. Some type of conflict is needed going forward or we would have some pretty boring stories. Luke kinda spelled it out for Rey when he was having her feel the force. There is a never ending cycle of life and destruction and life returning. Snoke says it again when Rey confronts him as well. Whenever one side becomes stronger the other will rise to meet it.

I wouldn’t say Luke completely failed either. He did reignite hope throughout the galaxy. He sparked the light to push back the dark. Twice actually.

Also the Skywalker saga isn’t over yet. One more to go and I guarantee Luke will be a presence in some way.

Lastly, even though we, the audience, were introduced to SW via the Skywalker Saga there has always been a greater Galaxy and bigger story going on. The Skywalkers are just part of it.

that's fair. and i get the bigger picture aspect of what you're talking about. especially about the constant struggle between light/dark;good/evil. you can't have one w/out the other. that is not lost on me.

i would have just expected based on how ROTJ ended, that there would be a better equipped "good", than a loner on an island on a planet no one knew existed...........

 

[BenGrimm]

yep. and i'm really hoping that the new girl, despite the efforts to dissuade the notion, is in some way related to the skywalker or kanobi clans, so there's still some semblance of that story arc left.

cause it is a BS way for that all to go out, considering all that went in to building it up to the crescendo that ROTJ was. i mean, you go thru all that, only to get to Luke Freaking Skywalker fading in to nothing all by himself on a deserted island on some planet not in the charts?

i mean really... a father/son epic, where, in the end, nothing that Annakin/Darth Vader did wound up mattering....the jedi are still gone, the empire is no more.. there's still no balance...why kill the emperor? why try to bring luke in to the fold? why try to turn Annakin back?

cool story bro. cool story indeed. lol:

Defeating the Empire was no small accomplishment. Things seemed to be balanced for years before the dark rose back up. Luke makes a strong case about why the Jedi should end. In the height of their power they let their arrogance and hubris open the doors for Sideous to conquer the galaxy. Then he goes and tries the same thing in HIS arrogance which most likely opened the door for Snoke.

 

[jakez4ut]

Defeating the Empire was no small accomplishment. Things seemed to be balanced for years before the dark rose back up.

agreed.

Luke makes a strong case about why the Jedi should end.

he does, and while we know that story cause we've seen it, in the end, Luke is set on his path basically alone, and has no real frame of reference to work from. too bad Vader died, probably a lot of good lessons Luke could have learned from Pops.

In the height of their power they let their arrogance and hubris open the doors for Sideous to conquer the galaxy. Then he goes and tries the same thing in HIS arrogance which most likely opened the door for Snoke.

in his defense, he was doing what he was told to do, what everyone thought he was meant to do.

i do see your point. just sucks that after you go thru those 6 movies, this is the result.

we'll see if the next crop of chosen ones gets it right.

 

[Grand Vol]

Defeating the Empire was no small accomplishment. Things seemed to be balanced for years before the dark rose back up. Luke makes a strong case about why the Jedi should end. In the height of their power they let their arrogance and hubris open the doors for Sideous to conquer the galaxy. Then he goes and tries the same thing in HIS arrogance which most likely opened the door for Snoke.

An interesting thought process on this lines is the "balance" of the Force they speak of.

You have the Light and Dark Side, which were your traditional roles. Then you have the "I'm the one in the middle, the Bendu" introduced in Rebels and the Father that was introduced in CW. Neither good nor bad, but "in the middle" which is the natural balance in the Force.

Too many Jedi and you have the balance tipped to the light side. Too many Sith and you have balance tipped to the dark side. Hence, "the Jedi must die" quote from the movie. For balance to be achieved, you must have one Dark side user and one Light matched evenly or none at all. At the end of the movie (spoiler) you only have Kylo and Rey left. A balance was achieved by Luke's passing. Not taking into account all the Force Sensitives in the galaxy obviously. But those who used the Force are balanced at the moment.

Another exception was Ahsoka Tano. Her white lightsabers indicated her allegiance to neither the Jedi nor the Sith. An "in the middle" approach though she tended to use her powers for good after her reappearance. However, she was not following the Jedi Code nor the Sith teachings. She could be one of the "in the middle" Force users that draw from neither the light or the dark, just draw from the Force.

Anyway, the cartoon series's have alluded to the "middle ground" a few times and this could be a subtle message to what we might see in Episode 9.