The Star Wars 8 SPOILER thread.

#376
#376
Brave Volunteer said:
Hey, you're entitled to your opinion but so am I. I agree with what Joe Rogan says in this clip. The attempt to maintain diversity throughout this saga is extremely heavy-handed and obvious. Episode 7 and 8 had exactly TWO white male protagonists to root for, Han and Luke. Now where are they? They've been killed off. EVERY SINGLE character we've been introduced to on the side of the resistance now is either female or minority...

Rey (white female)
Fin (black)
Poe (Latino)
Rose (Asian female)
Mas (voiced by a black female)
Amilyn Holdo (white female)
Leia (white female)
Lieutenant Conix (whilte female)

And now the only major white males left in this film are General Weasley (Hux) and Kylon Ren. Not exactly the most relatable characters in the saga I would say.

Even Rogue One is this way. All of the white males in this film are either shown as bumbling incompetents or a$$holes and, once again, our two main heroes are a female (Jyn Erso) and a Hispanic (Cassian Andor), along with a supporting cast featuring 2 Asians (Chirrut Imwe and Baze Malbus), 1 black character (Saw Gerrera), and 1 of Pakistani decent (Bodhi Rook).

Call me racist. Call me white supremacist. I don't care. But if you can't see the absolute clear and calculated decision to marginalize white male characters in this saga, you're blind. Now I'm just waiting for the first "LBGT" character to be introduced, because you KNOW it's coming.
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I believe Admiral Holdo was supposed to LGBT but the scenes got cut out. I am actually sort of with you on this. I don't care about the cast being diverse but this is pretty heavy handed. I think they felt that since "Star Wars is for everyone" they needed a cast to look more like everyone and since it was almost exclusively whites folks and fictional aliens for 6 movies, now they are just playing catch up.
 
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#377
#377
Brave Volunteer said:
Hey, you're entitled to your opinion but so am I. I agree with what Joe Rogan says in this clip. The attempt to maintain diversity throughout this saga is extremely heavy-handed and obvious. Episode 7 and 8 had exactly TWO white male protagonists to root for, Han and Luke. Now where are they? They've been killed off. EVERY SINGLE character we've been introduced to on the side of the resistance now is either female or minority...

Rey (white female)
Fin (black)
Poe (Latino)
Rose (Asian female)
Mas (voiced by a black female)
Amilyn Holdo (white female)
Leia (white female)
Lieutenant Conix (whilte female)

And now the only major white males left in this film are General Weasley (Hux) and Kylon Ren. Not exactly the most relatable characters in the saga I would say.

Even Rogue One is this way. All of the white males in this film are either shown as bumbling incompetents or a$$holes and, once again, our two main heroes are a female (Jyn Erso) and a Hispanic (Cassian Andor), along with a supporting cast featuring 2 Asians (Chirrut Imwe and Baze Malbus), 1 black character (Saw Gerrera), and 1 of Pakistani decent (Bodhi Rook).

Call me racist. Call me white supremacist. I don't care. But if you can't see the absolute clear and calculated decision to marginalize white male characters in this saga, you're blind. Now I'm just waiting for the first "LBGT" character to be introduced, because you KNOW it's coming.
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I don’t think they are trying to marginalize white male characters but they are definitely trying to add more diversity to a franchise that has been criticized as a white boys club. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s an attempt to expand the audience and there is only so much screen time.

You say there is no one to relate to any longer due to their gender or ethnicity. Well now you now how a substantial part of the fan base might have felt the previous 40 years.

Personally I did not read that much into it. I can follow Poe or Finn without thinking about the actors’ ethnicity (let’s also remember in the context of the story they are just humans but they are not from Earth). I can enjoy watching Rey’s story develop without relating to her gender.

I’m not here to call you a racist or a chauvinist. But as I said, if you feel you can’t relate to the characters based on their ethnicity or their gender then that is a YOU problem. That is NOT a story line or film craftsmanship problem.
 
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#378
#378
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I don’t think they are trying to marginalize white male characters but they are definitely trying to add more diversity to a franchise that has been criticized as a white boys club. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s an attempt to expand the audience and there is only so much screen time.

You say there is no one to relate to any longer due to their gender or ethnicity. Well now you now how a substantial part of the fan base might have felt the previous 40 years.

Personally I did not read that much into it. I can follow Poe or Finn without thinking about the actors’ ethnicity (let’s also remember in the context of the story they are just humans but they are not from Earth). I can enjoy watching Rey’s story develop without relating to her gender.

I’m not here to call you a racist or a chauvinist. But as I said, if you feel you can’t relate to the characters based on their ethnicity or their gender then that is a YOU problem. That is NOT a story line or film craftsmanship problem.
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The point is they are definitely marginalizing, and you could make a strong case they are vilifying white males..ON PURPOSE.
 
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#379
#379
Ulysees E. McGill said:
The point is they are definitely marginalizing, and you could make a strong case they are vilifying white males..ON PURPOSE.
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If that is the case you are building then you probably have some insecurity issues.

These movies serve one purpose for Disney. Turn a profit. It’s not to push some anti white agenda.
 
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#380
#380
I'm not "threatened" by it personally. I do have perspective here. At the end of the day it's just a movie so it's no skin off my nose. I just hate movies that make calculated decisions like this to push an agenda that really has nothing to do with the creative process. And like Joe Rogan said in his video, it's one thing to have diversity in films. It's another when you make it SO obvious thats what you're pushing that
it becomes a distraction and like him, I happen to find it distracting in this series. Its further evidence showing that these movies are being made by committee in a board room somewhere. It doesn't feel organic at all to me. It feels phony. And while this is not the movie's biggest problem, it's just another to add to the pile.

Oh and before anyone labels me sexist or racist, just so you know my two favorite movies last year were Wonder Woman (strong female lead along with many strong females in supporting roles) and Hidden Figures (true story about 3 courageos black women working at NASA). I'm also a huge fan of Star Trek. That series is, and always has been chock full of diversity. Yet for whatever reason, it's never felt forced or premeditated to me. It's always felt natural.

Perhaps the issue I'm having with this new series isn't diversity in of itself but rather that Disney hasn't "sold" me on many of these new characters. Other than Rey and Mas Kanada, really none of these new characters I find all that endearing. Fin, I'm still trying to understand why he's even in these films. Poe, I know Disney is trying to sell him as the new Han but I'm not buying it. Rose looks like a fan in cosplay and doesn't fit in this universe at all. That was a terrible casting decision IMO but hey, gotta have an Asian female, right? Captain Phasma was completely useless and a waste of a potentially great character. There are other examples too but you get my point.
 
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#381
#381
Brave Volunteer said:
I'm not "threatened" by it personally. I do have perspective here. At the end of the day it's just a movie so it's no skin off my nose. I just hate movies that make calculated decisions like this to push an agenda that really has nothing to do with the creative process. And like Joe Rogan said in his video, it's one thing to have diversity in films. It's another when you make it SO obvious thats what you're pushing that
it becomes a distraction and like him, I happen to find it distracting in this series. Its further evidence showing that these movies are being made by committee in a board room somewhere. It doesn't feel organic at all to me. It feels phony. And while this is not the movie's biggest problem, it's just another to add to the pile.

Oh and before anyone labels me sexist or racist, just so you know my two favorite movies last year were Wonder Woman (strong female lead along with many strong females in supporting roles) and Hidden Figures (true story about 3 courageos black women working at NASA). I'm also a huge fan of Star Trek. That series is, and always has been chock full of diversity. Yet for whatever reason, it's never felt forced or premeditated to me. It's always felt natural.

Perhaps the issue I'm having with this new series isn't diversity in of itself but rather that Disney hasn't "sold" me on many of these new characters. Other than Rey and Mas Kanada, really none of these new characters I find all that endearing. Fin, I'm still trying to understand why he's even in these films. Poe, I know Disney is trying to sell him as the new Han but I'm not buying it. Rose looks like a fan in cosplay and doesn't fit in this universe at all. That was a terrible casting decision IMO but hey, gotta have an Asian female, right? Captain Phasma was completely useless and a waste of a potentially great character. There are other examples too but you get my point.
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Uh-huh.

That's why you went into great detail to breakdown the race and sex of every major character. And then you double down with a "I have black friends" type of response.

And finally, your last paragraph is an almost completely different issue than you presented.
 
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#382
#382
Brave Volunteer said:
I'm not "threatened" by it personally. I do have perspective here. At the end of the day it's just a movie so it's no skin off my nose. I just hate movies that make calculated decisions like this to push an agenda that really has nothing to do with the creative process. And like Joe Rogan said in his video, it's one thing to have diversity in films. It's another when you make it SO obvious thats what you're pushing that
it becomes a distraction and like him, I happen to find it distracting in this series. Its further evidence showing that these movies are being made by committee in a board room somewhere. It doesn't feel organic at all to me. It feels phony. And while this is not the movie's biggest problem, it's just another to add to the pile.

Oh and before anyone labels me sexist or racist, just so you know my two favorite movies last year were Wonder Woman (strong female lead along with many strong females in supporting roles) and Hidden Figures (true story about 3 courageos black women working at NASA). I'm also a huge fan of Star Trek. That series is, and always has been chock full of diversity. Yet for whatever reason, it's never felt forced or premeditated to me. It's always felt natural.

Perhaps the issue I'm having with this new series isn't diversity in of itself but rather that Disney hasn't "sold" me on many of these new characters. Other than Rey and Mas Kanada, really none of these new characters I find all that endearing. Fin, I'm still trying to understand why he's even in these films. Poe, I know Disney is trying to sell him as the new Han but I'm not buying it. Rose looks like a fan in cosplay and doesn't fit in this universe at all. That was a terrible casting decision IMO but hey, gotta have an Asian female, right? Captain Phasma was completely useless and a waste of a potentially great character. There are other examples too but you get my point.
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I actually buy Poe more than anyone except maybe Kylo Ren.
 
#383
#383
VolsSportsFan said:
Uh-huh.

That's why you went into great detail to breakdown the race and sex of every major character. And then you double down with a "I have black friends" type of response.

And finally, your last paragraph is an almost completely different issue than you presented.
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Your "I have black friends too" comment is way off base. What I said was the complete truth. Those WERE my two favorite films in 2017! I'm simply illustrating that I am not anti-diversity in movies across the board, IF it makes sense and properly serves the story! However when it's used as a contrived selling tool to maximize ticket sales, yeah I DO have a problem with that. I want it to feel natural, not like its being shoved down my throat.

As for my last paragraph, excuse me for attempting to work something out in real time as I post.

It's obvious that your mind is made up about me as a person, eventhough you don't know a damn thing about me. So I'll stop trying to convince you otherwise.
 
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#384
#384
Brave Volunteer said:
Your "I have black friends too" comment is way off base. What I said was the complete truth. Those WERE my two favorite films in 2017! I'm simply illustrating that I am not anti-diversity in movies across the board, IF it makes sense and properly serves the story! However when it's used as a contrived selling tool to maximize ticket sales, yeah I DO have a problem with that. I want it to feel natural, not like its being shoved down my throat.

As for my last paragraph, excuse me for attempting to work something out in real time as I post.

It's obvious that your mind is made up about me as a person, eventhough you don't know a damn thing about me. So I'll stop trying to convince you otherwise.
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It wasn’t off base at all. The principle is the same.
 
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#386
#386
burntorangeVOLffle said:
If that is the case you are building then you probably have some insecurity issues.

These movies serve one purpose for Disney. Turn a profit. It’s not to push some anti white agenda.
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You are an idiot if you don't see that Disney has always pushed agendas. I don't hate them for it, I love going to Disney and have all their movies, but I acknowledge the truth. They are and always have been run by extreme lefties that have a agenda.
 
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#389
#389
Brave Volunteer said:
No it isn't because you're comparing it to something that is usually a lie. I'm not lying.
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Oh ffs, lying has zero to do with the principle being the same. You can’t seriously be this dense.

FWIW, I don't think you're racist or sexist, but I do disagree with your conclusions.
 
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#391
#391
Ulysees E. McGill said:
It is not funny at all, the two sides hate each other. Eventually that hatred will boil over into something real bad. It has always happened that way, and always will.
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q03EG.gif
 
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#392
#392
This “TLJ is pushing an anti-white diversity agenda” nonsense is the epitome of reaching. You didn’t like the movie, that’s fine, but this is a dumb argument.

No one wanted Schiano at Tennessee, and it had nothing to do with Penn State ties. You didn’t like TLJ, and it had nothing to do with diversity. Same concept.
 
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#393
#393
chatt-townVOL said:
This “TLJ is pushing an anti-white diversity agenda” nonsense is the epitome reaching. You didn’t like the movie, that’s fine, but this is a dumb argument.

No one wanted Schiano at Tennessee, and it had nothing to do with Penn State ties. You didn’t like TLJ, and it had nothing to do with diversity. Same concept.
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It’s hilarious. The entire movie was centered around a white male. Everyone was looking for Luke. They needed his help. He comes back and has a bad ass scene where he makes a giant sacrifice to save everyone, and ends up being a legend that spurs the resistance. They even show a black child playing with a figure that’s supposed to be Luke and he’s obviously an inspiration to him.
 
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#394
#394
VolsSportsFan said:
It’s hilarious. The entire movie was centered around a white male. Everyone was looking for Luke. They needed his help. He comes back and has a bad ass scene where he makes a giant sacrifice to save everyone, and ends up being a legend that spurs the resistance. They even show a black child playing with a figure that’s supposed to be Luke and he’s obviously an inspiration to him.
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Good point
 
#395
#395
VolsSportsFan said:
q03EG.gif
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I really didn't mean that like it sounded..I just mean that the entertainment industry as a whole, not just Diz, seems intent on forcing SJW/LGBT values down a huge and still very powerful and viable portion of our societies throat. If you can't see the lefty lib agenda you are blind, or you just don't care because you are one.

It is causing a lot of distrust and anger. It doesn't have to be this way.
 
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#396
#396
I'm not going to respond anymore about this, I apologize about the political discussion, it is just that Disney did make it relevant to discussion or criticism of this movie by their hamfisted attempt to force diversity. It could have been more subtle.
 
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#397
#397
VolsSportsFan said:
Oh ffs, lying has zero to do with the principle being the same. You can’t seriously be this dense.

FWIW, I don't think you're racist or sexist, but I do disagree with your conclusions.
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"sigh" you equated me saying "my two favorite films of 2017 were Wonder Woman and Hidden Figures" with someone who says "I have black friends too." It is NOT the same principle because your quote is one of hypocrisy and most oftentimes dishonesty. What I said is neither of those!

Now, since you are implying that I'm too "dense" to understand what you mean, feel free to enlighten me oh wise one. How can the principles be the same when one is based on truth and one is based on deception?
 
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#398
#398
Best quote I've read so far...

"George Lucas made Star Wars because he had a story to tell. Disney makes Star Wars because they have a story to sell. "
 
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#399
#399
Brave Volunteer said:
"sigh" you equated me saying "my two favorite films of 2017 were Wonder Woman and Hidden Figures" with someone who says "I have black friends too." It is NOT the same principle because your quote is one of hypocrisy and most oftentimes dishonesty. What I said is neither of those!

Now, since you are implying that I'm too "dense" to understand what you mean, feel free to enlighten me oh wise one. How can the principles be the same when one is based on truth and one is based on deception?
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You don’t even understand the point of “I have black friends”, and adding the part about “being dishonest” is just a way for you to qualify it so that it doesn’t apply.

The point of “I have black friends” is the person is saying because they have black friends, then that automatically means what they can’t be racist; and that is ridiculous. You saying you can’t be racist/sexist because your favorite movies from the last year are Wonder Woman and Hidden Figures is equally ridiculous. Whether it’s true or not is completely irrelevant; you liking a movie proves nothing about those things.

If after that simple explanation you still don’t get it, then I give up.
 
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#400
#400
VolsSportsFan said:
You don’t even understand the point of “I have black friends”, and adding the part about “being dishonest” is just a way for you to qualify it so that it doesn’t apply.

The point of “I have black friends” is the person is saying because they have black friends, then that automatically means what they can’t be racist; and that is ridiculous. You saying you can’t be racist/sexist because your favorite movies from the last year are Wonder Woman and Hidden Figures is equally ridiculous. Whether it’s true or not is completely irrelevant; you liking a movie proves nothing about those things.

If after that simple explanation you still don’t get it, then I give up.
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My point in saying that was to illustrate that I don't have a blanket, across the board problem with movies that depict women, minorities, or diversity of any kind that stems from me being some kind of racist or sexist as some on here want to insenuate. I'm only saying it about THIS particular movie because it feels incredibly forced and obvious and I find it distracting and phony. If you or anyone else thinks that makes me racist or sexist, you're off your nut! And it's my experience that those who go around saying "I have black friends" are usually lying. That's why I said what I said.

Then again, if I thought the actual characters in this series were better developed, I might not notice it at all. That's why I said maybe the problem I'm having isn't the diversity itself but just weak character development. :dunno:
 
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