The Stark Truth

#76
#76
hatvol96 said:
Stark's point, on which I concur, is that Horner was really a pretty bad player.
Click to expand...

He was a glorified softball player, but from 82-86 he did put up some pretty good offensive numbers . . . when he was healthy.
 
#77
#77
hatvol96 said:
Stark's point, on which I concur, is that Horner was really a pretty bad player.
Click to expand...

I agree with GAVol and don't remember Horner being over- hyped. Murphy, maybe, but not Horner.

Hat, I take your and Stark's points to mean that Horner was below average.

His stats do not indicate he's below average. He was an average fielder (statistically). But he was in the top 10 in in the NL in HRs, RBI several years throughout his injury-riddled career. He was the 1979 NL ROY (with 33HR, 98 RBI, and .314 average). He was an all-star in 1982. Baseball reference lists him as statistically similar (hitting wise) to Aramis Ramirez, Phil Nevin, and Al Rosen, none of whom I'd call "pretty bad."

Those indicate that to me, at worst, he was slightly above average during his time.
 
#78
#78
Shortstops:

Overrated:
1. Phil Rizzuto.
2. Maury Wills.
3. Bucky Dent.
4. Luis Apiricio.
5. Shawon Dunston.

Underrated:
1. Barry Larkin.
2. Derek Jeter.
3. Ernie Banks as a shortstop.
4. Omar Vizquel.
5. Alan Trammell.
 
#80
#80
hatvol96 said:
Shortstops:

Overrated:
1. Phil Rizzuto.
2. Maury Wills.
3. Bucky Dent.
4. Luis Apiricio.
5. Shawon Dunston.

Underrated:
1. Barry Larkin.
2. Derek Jeter.
3. Ernie Banks as a shortstop.
4. Omar Vizquel.
5. Alan Trammell.
Click to expand...
Barry Larkin and Omar Vizquel are/were 2 of my favorite players.
 
#82
#82
tidwell said:
I've gotta hear the reasoning on Jeter being underrated.
Click to expand...
In short, people spend so much time complaining about how much publicity Jeter receives, they overlook what a consistent, clutch player he is and the fact that he's one of the best leaders in sports.
 
#83
#83
By the way, I sent Stark an email about how much I enjoyed his book. He replied with an exceptionally gracious email. I think I'll send him a link to this thread.
 
#84
#84
In the 90s I always considered Larkin the best SS in my generation (other than Rafael Ramirez). In the past decade I'd say it's Jeter. I'm just surprised those two are underrated.
 
#86
#86
Hat, is he saying that Jeter and Larkin should overwhelmingly be considered the two best SS of all-time? B/c from my POV, that's the only way they're currently the 2 most underrated SS ever.
 
#87
#87
hatvol96 said:
In short, people spend so much time complaining about how much publicity Jeter receives, they overlook what a consistent, clutch player he is and the fact that he's one of the best leaders in sports.
Click to expand...
Makes sense I suppose.

Another guy (shortstop) that I would consider underrated is Edgar Renteria. Even with Eckstein winning the World Series MVP last year, I long for the days of Renteria at SS for the Cardinals.
 
#89
#89
I think it makes sense with Jeter. People are always talking about who he's dating and these days who A-Rod is cheating on his wife with. In the meantime he keeps hitting .333 an acting like a Yankee Captain should.
 
#91
#91
wbarron said:
Hat, is he saying that Jeter and Larkin should overwhelmingly be considered the two best SS of all-time? B/c from my POV, that's the only way they're currently the 2 most underrated SS ever.
Click to expand...
With Larkin, he's comparing him to his contemporaries and those who came before him. His point, which I think is totally accurate, is that the fact that there is any debate about Barry Larkin making the Hall of Fame shows he's vastly underrated. His point on Jeter is posted earlier in the thread. The book has some amazing numbers backing up his assertions about Larkin.
 
#93
#93
Left Fielders:

Overrated:
1. Lou Brock.
2. Joe Carter.
3. Vince Coleman.
4. Lonnie Smith.
5. George Foster.

Underrated:
1. Stan Musial.
2. Tim Raines.
3. Manny Ramirez.
4. Ralph Kiner
5. Minnie Minoso.
 
#94
#94
I guess Manny is underrated because people focus on what a nut job he is (but still a fun guy nonetheless) and how he's always made out to be a terrible fielder (justifiably most of the time)?
 
#95
#95
tidwell said:
I guess Manny is underrated because people focus on what a nut job he is (but still a fun guy nonetheless) and how he's always made out to be a terrible fielder (justifiably most of the time)?
Click to expand...
I totally agree.
 
#96
#96
My favorite "Manny being Manny" moment and possibly one of my favorite (blooper) plays of the last few years was that cutoff catch he made from the center fielder who was standing about 20-30 feet away from him. Dove out to snag it and everything. :lol:
 
#97
#97
tidwell said:
My favorite "Manny being Manny" moment and possibly one of my favorite (blooper) plays of the last few years was that cutoff catch he made from the center fielder who was standing about 20-30 feet away from him. Dove out to snag it and everything. :lol:
Click to expand...
That was a classic. My favorite is either the story about him having roughly $1 mil in uncashed paychecks in his glove compartment or the following conversation with his agent, when he was house shopping in Boston, after signing his massive contract:
Manny:I really like this house, but I'm worried.
Agent: Why?
Manny: Can I really afford it?
Agent: Manny, you can afford the whole neighborhood.
 
#98
#98
hatvol96 said:
With Larkin, he's comparing him to his contemporaries and those who came before him. His point, which I think is totally accurate, is that the fact that there is any debate about Barry Larkin making the Hall of Fame shows he's vastly underrated. His point on Jeter is posted earlier in the thread. The book has some amazing numbers backing up his assertions about Larkin.
Click to expand...

I didn't know there was a debate. Don't follow it as closely, obviously. Yeah, that is ridiculous. Larkin was as versatile a SS as there was at the time - one of the most complete players I've ever seen play.
 
#99
#99
hatvol96 said:
What, no love for Pepe Frias or Andres Thomas?
Click to expand...

Love me some Andres Thomas. You stumped me on Pepe, though - had to look it up to see who he was. Just before my time as a Braves fan.

Hon. mention to Rafael Belliard (the vacuum).
 
#100
#100
Center Fielders:

Overrated:
1. Andruw Jones.
2. Hack Wilson.
3. Juan Pierre.
4. Mickey Rivers.
5. Omar Moreno.

Underrated:
1. Duke Snider.
2. Richie Ashburn.
3. Jimmy Wynn.
4. Tris Speaker.
5. Andy Van Slyke.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top