The stock market thread part 2

#176
#176
Can we at least agree that nothing the current administration has put forward is liked by the market?

Even Obama supporters would have to concede that.
 
#177
#177
volinbham said:
Can we at least agree that nothing the current administration has put forward is liked by the market?

Even Obama supporters would have to concede that.
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the new trillion in taxation that we viewed a couple days ago on someone's pie chart has to scare the living hell out of any equity investors out there.
 
#178
#178
volinbham said:
Can we at least agree that nothing the current administration has put forward is liked by the market?

Even Obama supporters would have to concede that.
Click to expand...

I can agree that some of it is the result of Obama. But not all of it. The economy really sucks right now.

I am just really pissed at the market. I took a look at my 401K last week and almost cried.

The worst part about it is I had nothing to do with it, couldn't control it, and yet I am still reading stories of bailouts. I know people on wall street lost jobs, but the accountability just doesn't seem to be there.
 
#179
#179
rjd970 said:
I can agree that some of it is the result of Obama. But not all of it. The economy really sucks right now.

I am just really pissed at the market. I took a look at my 401K last week and almost cried.

The worst part about it is I had nothing to do with it, couldn't control it, and yet I am still reading stories of bailouts. I know people on wall street lost jobs, but the accountability just doesn't seem to be there.
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sure you can control it. Remove the money from the market. You are clearly making a risk investment in the market and that's why the returns exist as they do.

Why should Wall St. be accountable because your 401k got drilled. Wall St. has little to do with it.
 
#181
#181
BigPapaVol said:
Why should Wall St. be accountable because your 401k got drilled. Wall St. has little to do with it.
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How much of this market downturn has to do with the snowball effect of these MBS's that were being passed around like party joints? What did I have to do with that? And bailing out these banks isn't sending the right message of accountability.

I have long-term plans with my 401K and I am not going to take the loss by taking out my money now. I am hoping to get a huge gain when the market rebounds. I just don't like seeing the loss.
 
#182
#182
BigPapaVol said:
Why should Wall St. be accountable because your 401k got drilled. Wall St. has little to do with it.
Click to expand...

his 401k is getting killed as is the 401k of most wall streeters. of course the wall streeters are either unemployed or their income is down 50%. i really fail to see how wall street hasn't suffered enough here.
 
#184
#184
droski said:
his 401k is getting killed as is the 401k of most wall streeters. of course the wall streeters are either unemployed or their income is down 50%. i really fail to see how wall street hasn't suffered enough here.
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I like your input droski, and you seem to be one of the more level headed posters on here, but it doesn't surprise me that you would say that.

How much money were those said unemployed victims pulling in during the party the last 10 years? I seriously doubt any of them are standing in soup lines right now.

And no, they haven't suffered enough. If they were the ones driving the ship when it sank the majority of the accountability should rest with them. We should have let banks fail. Hit on my 401K or not, in the long run it would be better.
 
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#185
#185
rjd970 said:
How much of this market downturn has to do with the snowball effect of these MBS's that were being passed around like party joints? What did I have to do with that? And bailing out these banks isn't sending the right message of accountability.

I have long-term plans with my 401K and I am not going to take the loss by taking out my money now. I am hoping to get a huge gain when the market rebounds. I just don't like seeing the loss.
Click to expand...
again, you invested knowing full well the risks involved. Any broad hammering to the market kills everyone who has bought into the diversified view of stock buying, which is generally the right one for retirement style planning.

The credit default swap idea is essentially what murdered the market, but only after the home defaults began. Those defaults are about individuals who should never have bought getting their hands on more mortgage than they could handle. Wall St. was simply a packaging company for the ultimate buyers of those securities. Those buyers just happened to believe that the insurance provided by the swaps actually covered their risk. Wall St. played an intermediary role between the mortgage lenders / brokers and the ultimate buyer.

Regardless, your 401k is always going to be susceptible to a broad market revaluation. Trying to blame losing that money on a single group, rather than yourself for failing to act or recognize the problems is much of the issue with America today. Failure to take individual responsibility is a tremendous issue and it's why an empty suit like Obama can be elected on the promise of government solutions and government protection.
 
#186
#186
rjd970 said:
How much money were those said unemployed victims pulling in during the party the last 10 years? I seriously doubt any of them are standing in soup lines right now.

And no, they haven't suffered enough. We should have let banks fail. Hit on my 401K or not, in the long run it would be better.
Click to expand...

ridiculous. what % of "wall street" employees are making that kind of money? You think the tellar at citibank or bank of america is living high on the hog? these are HUGE companies.
 
#187
#187
rjd970 said:
How much money were those said unemployed victims pulling in during the party the last 10 years? I seriously doubt any of them are standing in soup lines right now.

And no, they haven't suffered enough. We should have let banks fail. Hit on my 401K or not, in the long run it would be better.
Click to expand...
you're still pinning blame on people who had nothing at all to do with the mortgage crisis. The mortgage operations in investment banks are just a tiny sliver of the operation because they tend not to be overly profitable. However, since the i-banks were holding much of the paper and it swallowed their capital quickly, all of the folks still making a fortune for the companies are being killed with the mortgage group.

We should have actually addressed the mortgage problem or toxic asset problem, but have failed to do so at every single turn. Had we done that, you would probably be sporting a much larger % of your 401k still in your own hands rather than in the ether.
 
#188
#188
droski said:
ridiculous. what % of "wall street" employees are making that kind of money? You think the tellar at citibank or bank of america is living high on the hog? these are HUGE companies.
Click to expand...

Way to deflect attention. Explain to me what exactly the teller at citibank had to do with the bad decision making by all the "talent". The "talent" is the ones I am talking about.
 
#189
#189
rjd970 said:
Way to deflect attention. Explain to me what exactly the teller at citibank had to do with the bad decision making by all the "talent". The "talent" is the ones I am talking about.
Click to expand...

your assumption seems to have been that we are "bailing out" the wall street rich people. nothing could be farther from the truth. the people who made the bad decisions are by and large unemployed. the remaining "talent" had nothing to do with the mortgage crisis, is probably still generating massive profits for the bank, yet are getting hammered. most of america still has their jobs, but the same can not be said for the 99% of wall street employees that had nothing to do with the current problem
 
#190
#190
rjd970 said:
Way to deflect attention. Explain to me what exactly the teller at citibank had to do with the bad decision making by all the "talent". The "talent" is the ones I am talking about.
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the talent no longer exists. They have nothing to do with the operations any longer.

I don't think anyone in those banks, now losing billions by the quarter, could have ever projected losing this much capital to the broader real estate market. Once the other shoe dropped, the bottom came out quickly in housing, then spread to all forms of real estate investment, which weren't as poorly underwritten.
 
#191
#191
BigPapaVol said:
again, you invested knowing full well the risks involved. Any broad hammering to the market kills everyone who has bought into the diversified view of stock buying, which is generally the right one for retirement style planning.

The credit default swap idea is essentially what murdered the market, but only after the home defaults began. Those defaults are about individuals who should never have bought getting their hands on more mortgage than they could handle. Wall St. was simply a packaging company for the ultimate buyers of those securities. Those buyers just happened to believe that the insurance provided by the swaps actually covered their risk. Wall St. played an intermediary role between the mortgage lenders / brokers and the ultimate buyer.

Regardless, your 401k is always going to be susceptible to a broad market revaluation. Trying to blame losing that money on a single group, rather than yourself for failing to act or recognize the problems is much of the issue with America today. Failure to take individual responsibility is a tremendous issue and it's why an empty suit like Obama can be elected on the promise of government solutions and government protection.
Click to expand...


This is great....I mean, even for you. Read the second bolded section, then the first. Your lecture here is pretty hypocritical.

First you say that the problem with america is blaming one group for the problem instead of yourself by failing to act, then you offer a defense of wall street by blaming a group of people that bought beyond their means leaving wall street helpless in the whole scenario.
 
#192
#192
rjd970 said:
This is great....I mean, even for you. Read the second bolded section, then the first. Your lecture here is pretty hypocritical.

First you say that the problem with america is blaming one group for the problem instead of yourself by failing to act, then you offer a defense of wall street by blaming a group of people that bought beyond their means leaving wall street helpless in the whole scenario.
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you apparently don't recognize the GIGANTIC gulf of difference between an agency transaction and a principal transaction.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm telling you what happened and I'm telling you that you lost money because you invested it in a risk vehicle that you didn't have a full grasp upon. It's not rocket science.
 
#193
#193
Going to go grab some lunch with a beer and hope to come back to a UP market. :) Interesting thread you guys have going on here, good stuff..
 
#196
#196
dow down 240.00.

another day closer to socialism. congrats to all you sheep who voted for this moron.
 
#200
#200
i'm moved past the oh sh%t stage into something worse (which i'm not sure what that might be).
 
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