The Thread Where We Debate About Healthcare in America

[golfballs]

Healthcare is already 2/3’s socialized. When govt is involved prices increase and quality decreases. See higher education and primary education. Eliminating Medicare and Medicaid would be a good start.

Bingo

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Yeah, get the government the hell out of health care.

This!

 

[midnight orange]

As a conservative leaning person, it pains me to see Republicans not look at the problem and see what has worked in many other countries. I've learned a lot as I'm pursuing my Master in Health Admin.

Right leaning people cry out about socialized healthcare but doesn't realize people like Teddy Roosevelt attempted it back in the early 1900s. If our GDP is almost 20% from healthcare while others are about half or lower, there is an issue of profit being built in and we need to do something about it. Insurance companies are corporations with one bottom line which is profit. The government should require insurance to be non profit or become a single payer system.

Profit is the solution not the problem. The problem is govt involvement.

 

[theFallGuy]

Health care and insurance costs were out of control way before Obama

And so Obama's great idea was to throw gasoline on it and make it worse?

::slow clap::

 

[Grand Vol]

I don't have a solution. I was asking what would address the problem. Any ideas?

Second thing is the absurd prices that hospitals charge and what insurance companies pay without batting an eye. That's where your basic plans are skyrocketing from.

Promote things like this:

What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash | Time.com

Free market can win. Provided, there are a lot of serious charges on the "big ticket" items (knee replacement for one that's listed in the article) but others are within reach of a normal family and don't add in the absurd rates charged by hospitals to health insurance carriers. Furthermore, imagine a whole cash based industry of doctors, rehab specialists and possibly even pharmaceuticals. Allow prescription meds to come in from other nations without having to pay the Pfizer price for it and watch those prices drop like a rock.

 

[tim]

Health care and insurance costs were out of control way before Obama and still are but now that Obama tried to do something good without the help of the GOP and GOP states the GOP and idiots that live in the GOP states are wanting to blame him for a problem that was there before he was even president. We were unable to progress to affordable healthcare because of idiots wanting to blame someone and nothing else. What has the GOP done to address the problem?

Sure, I guess you kept your doctor and premiums went down? He lied, and as you know, no good thing is built on a lie.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

As a conservative leaning person, it pains me to see Republicans not look at the problem and see what has worked in many other countries. I've learned a lot as I'm pursuing my Master in Health Admin.

Right leaning people cry out about socialized healthcare but doesn't realize people like Teddy Roosevelt attempted it back in the early 1900s. If our GDP is almost 20% from healthcare while others are about half or lower, there is an issue of profit being built in and we need to do something about it. Insurance companies are corporations with one bottom line which is profit. The government should require insurance to be non profit or become a single payer system.

The health care problem and the education problem are similar.

The raw materials suck. We are a nation of fatties that are hell bent on killing ourselves. At our company one third of the employees have chronic conditions- adult onset diabetes, HBP, cholesterol, etc.- and they account for over two thirds of total cost. If they just lost weight we would cut costs dramatically, and free up provider capacity for actual problems. More and more places are covering bariatric surgery because it’s cheaper in the long run. I have enjoyed watching people here who have “gland problems” lose 100 pounds in six months after getting their stomach cut. What a weird gland problem you had lol. That’s another problem we have, fat people who won’t own the fact they’re responsible for being fat. It’s always a gland problem or leftover pregnancy weight. And they’ve “tried everything”. I’m sure it has nothing to do with the 32oz Sonic cup you tote in every morning or the crap you eat for lunch.

And that’s how politicians open the door to suggest mother government makes rules mandating health. People who don’t want to deal with their problems, they want the government to fix it. We could save so much time and waste doing it ourselves. But I don’t have a lot of hope we will reach that conclusion.

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

Exactly the response I expected to see. I bet not one of you have actually researched the majority of the world's healthcare systems and see they are all in some way through the government. It's more "keep government out!" or "no socialized medicine!" or "corporations are more efficient."

Our healthcare systems are nowhere near 2/3 through the government. Lobbying costs for healthcare are higher even than military lobbying. This shows exactly why for profit companies love to keep it private while reaping a ridiculous amount of profits. You can look simply at drug rx costs as much higher than other countries or cost of saline.

We spend more than pretty much any other country, yet we rank lower than all the other comparable countries that have government healthcare.

 

[midnight orange]

Exactly the response I expected to see. I bet not one of you have actually researched the majority of the world's healthcare systems and see they are all in some way through the government. It's more "keep government out!" or "no socialized medicine!" or "corporations are more efficient."

Our healthcare systems are nowhere near 2/3 through the government. Lobbying costs for healthcare are higher even than military lobbying. This shows exactly why for profit companies love to keep it private while reaping a ridiculous amount of profits. You can look simply at drug rx costs as much higher than other countries or cost of saline.

We spend more than pretty much any other country, yet we rank lower than all the other comparable countries that have government healthcare.

Nope.
American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

This from a lefty org.
Government funds nearly two-thirds of U.S. health care costs: American Journal of Public Health study | Physicians for a National Health Program

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

Nope.
American Public Health Association (APHA) publications

This from a lefty org.
Government funds nearly two-thirds of U.S. health care costs: American Journal of Public Health study | Physicians for a National Health Program

Ok. So 64%. So that article essentially shows why we should go for universal healthcare.

“We pay the world’s highest health care taxes. But patients are still saddled with unaffordable premiums and deductibles,” said Dr. Steffie Woolhandler. “Meanwhile, billions are squandered on paperwork, and insurers and drug companies pocket huge profits at taxpayer expense.”

 

[FLVOL_79]

Health care and insurance costs were out of control way before Obama and still are but now that Obama tried to do something good without the help of the GOP and GOP states the GOP and idiots that live in the GOP states are wanting to blame him for a problem that was there before he was even president. We were unable to progress to affordable healthcare because of idiots wanting to blame someone and nothing else. What has the GOP done to address the problem?

We work and pay for our own insurance.

 

[midnight orange]

Ok. So 64%. So that article essentially shows why we should go for universal healthcare.

“We pay the world’s highest health care taxes. But patients are still saddled with unaffordable premiums and deductibles,” said Dr. Steffie Woolhandler. “Meanwhile, billions are squandered on paperwork, and insurers and drug companies pocket huge profits at taxpayer expense.”

So the solution to crappy socialized healthcare is to double down and follow Neyland’s maxim of “put on more steam”.

 

[theFallGuy]

Exactly the response I expected to see. I bet not one of you have actually researched the majority of the world's healthcare systems and see they are all in some way through the government. It's more "keep government out!" or "no socialized medicine!" or "corporations are more efficient."

Our healthcare systems are nowhere near 2/3 through the government. Lobbying costs for healthcare are higher even than military lobbying. This shows exactly why for profit companies love to keep it private while reaping a ridiculous amount of profits. You can look simply at drug rx costs as much higher than other countries or cost of saline.

We spend more than pretty much any other country, yet we rank lower than all the other comparable countries that have government healthcare.

Despite what you say about socialized healthcare, our capitalist system is responsible for most of the world's medical advancements.

"Today, 12 of the top 20 medical device companies are headquartered in the U.S. Last year, U.S. companies had more than 3,000 new pharmaceutical products in development.

The cost of developing a new drug now exceeds $1.3 billion and takes an average of 12 years, and only a small percentage of new molecular entities ever reach the market"

Though The U.S. Is Healthcare's World Leader, Its Innovative Culture Is Threatened

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

So the solution to crappy socialized healthcare is to follow Neyland’s maxims and “put on more steam”.

It should be to create universal healthcare in some form whether that be non profit insurance or hospitals, or regulations of costs.

What solution do you propose besides completely ridding all government subsidies and healthcare for veterans, the poor, elderly, and children?

 

[theFallGuy]

The Most Innovative Countries In Biology And Medicine

 

[theFallGuy]

Crossing the Border for Care
Frustrated by long waits, some Canadians are heading to the U.S. for medical treatment.

 

[LouderVol]

Exactly the response I expected to see. I bet not one of you have actually researched the majority of the world's healthcare systems and see they are all in some way through the government. It's more "keep government out!" or "no socialized medicine!" or "corporations are more efficient."

Our healthcare systems are nowhere near 2/3 through the government. Lobbying costs for healthcare are higher even than military lobbying. This shows exactly why for profit companies love to keep it private while reaping a ridiculous amount of profits. You can look simply at drug rx costs as much higher than other countries or cost of saline.

We spend more than pretty much any other country, yet we rank lower than all the other comparable countries that have government healthcare.

it fails elsewhere. its a money pit as soon as you try to care for everyone. and it ensures that everyone gets screwed, not just the poor.

N.H.S. Overwhelmed in Britain, Leaving Patients to Wait - The New York Times

U.K. hospital crisis: Why can't a rich economy fund its health care?

Europe’s health systems on life support – POLITICO

German health service facing €1BILLION deficit as it struggles to cope with migrant crisis | World | News | Express.co.uk

i don't think you have researched it if you believe it works.

seriously take a quick trip down Google with "X country health care crisis". its amazing how many turn up. the only ones it works with are tiny countries that are rich.

 

[LouderVol]

double post even if worth saying twice.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Exactly the response I expected to see. I bet not one of you have actually researched the majority of the world's healthcare systems and see they are all in some way through the government. It's more "keep government out!" or "no socialized medicine!" or "corporations are more efficient."

Our healthcare systems are nowhere near 2/3 through the government. Lobbying costs for healthcare are higher even than military lobbying. This shows exactly why for profit companies love to keep it private while reaping a ridiculous amount of profits. You can look simply at drug rx costs as much higher than other countries or cost of saline.

We spend more than pretty much any other country, yet we rank lower than all the other comparable countries that have government healthcare.

Again, we have a **** product to start with. We are a very unhealthy population. The amount of money wasted treatment reversible chronic conditions is astronomical.

 

[LouderVol]

He didn't do anything good with heath care. He set this whole Robin Hood racket up hoping that Dems would win the white house in 2016. Then they would be able to push on over to universal healthcare.

Explain to me how 110% increase in insurance premiums is helping me?

only 110%, you are lucky.

 

[LouderVol]

It should be to create universal healthcare in some form whether that be non profit insurance or hospitals, or regulations of costs.

What solution do you propose besides completely ridding all government subsidies and healthcare for veterans, the poor, elderly, and children?

universal doesn't work. double your tax rate, all that increase goes to healthcare, and it still can't be funded.

the DNC knew exactly what they were doing. they crapped all over us, knowing it doesn't work. that is not attempting to fix the problem. that is making the problem worse so they get more power.

 

[AshG]

Exactly the response I expected to see. I bet not one of you have actually researched the majority of the world's healthcare systems and see they are all in some way through the government. It's more "keep government out!" or "no socialized medicine!" or "corporations are more efficient."

Our healthcare systems are nowhere near 2/3 through the government. Lobbying costs for healthcare are higher even than military lobbying. This shows exactly why for profit companies love to keep it private while reaping a ridiculous amount of profits. You can look simply at drug rx costs as much higher than other countries or cost of saline.

We spend more than pretty much any other country, yet we rank lower than all the other comparable countries that have government healthcare.

I'm sorry you're receiving such a miserable welcome in this discussion. I appreciate your facts, education, and world view.

 

[midnight orange]

It should be to create universal healthcare in some form whether that be non profit insurance or hospitals, or regulations of costs.

What solution do you propose besides completely ridding all government subsidies and healthcare for veterans, the poor, elderly, and children?

I propose no solution other than eliminating the above you mentioned and letting the free market work it out. A top -down Soviet style, centrally -planned solution will not work, unless you like the healthcare equivalent of bread lines, which are forming. How’s the VA spa working out?

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

Despite what you say about socialized healthcare, our capitalist system is responsible for most of the world's medical advancements.

"Today, 12 of the top 20 medical device companies are headquartered in the U.S. Last year, U.S. companies had more than 3,000 new pharmaceutical products in development.

The cost of developing a new drug now exceeds $1.3 billion and takes an average of 12 years, and only a small percentage of new molecular entities ever reach the market"

Though The U.S. Is Healthcare's World Leader, Its Innovative Culture Is Threatened

Oh a figure given to us by the pharmaceutical group association? They must be trustworthy.

Which Industry Spends the Most on Lobbying? (ANTM, SO) | Investopedia

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

universal doesn't work. double your tax rate, all that increase goes to healthcare, and it still can't be funded.

the DNC knew exactly what they were doing. they crapped all over us, knowing it doesn't work. that is not attempting to fix the problem. that is making the problem worse so they get more power.

It works when the government has more control over costs. No other countries have to worry about lobbying and profit built into certain aspects of their healthcare costs or excessive CEO profit and bonuses while we suffer for it. I wouldn't have had to worry about my sons EpiPen costs in Europe. Costs for ex are controlled to a certain extent.