The Thread Where We Debate About Healthcare in America

#51
#51
midnight orange said:
I propose no solution other than eliminating the above you mentioned and letting the free market work it out. A top -down Soviet style, centrally -planned solution will not work, unless you like the healthcare equivalent of bread lines, which are forming. How’s the VA spa working out?
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I'm not going to say it's perfect by any means but I can get a timely appointment (for the most part) and dont have to worry about copays for my rxs. Even the appointments that had to go outside because of wait times were just as long due to the specialty care.
 
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#52
#52
theFallGuy said:
Despite what you say about socialized healthcare, our capitalist system is responsible for most of the world's medical advancements.

"Today, 12 of the top 20 medical device companies are headquartered in the U.S. Last year, U.S. companies had more than 3,000 new pharmaceutical products in development.

The cost of developing a new drug now exceeds $1.3 billion and takes an average of 12 years, and only a small percentage of new molecular entities ever reach the market"

Though The U.S. Is Healthcare's World Leader, Its Innovative Culture Is Threatened
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Take out the profit, take away advancement.
 
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#53
#53
LouderVol said:
it fails elsewhere. its a money pit as soon as you try to care for everyone. and it ensures that everyone gets screwed, not just the poor.

N.H.S. Overwhelmed in Britain, Leaving Patients to Wait - The New York Times

U.K. hospital crisis: Why can't a rich economy fund its health care?

Europe’s health systems on life support – POLITICO

German health service facing €1BILLION deficit as it struggles to cope with migrant crisis | World | News | Express.co.uk

i don't think you have researched it if you believe it works.

seriously take a quick trip down Google with "X country health care crisis". its amazing how many turn up. the only ones it works with are tiny countries that are rich.
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Yet we face a worse crisis of our own. People without healthcare, crappy healthcare while overpriced, people going into debt because of costs, and avoiding seeing a doctor because they cannot afford it. No system is perfect and probably won't ever be but I'm not going to let my healthcare future sit in the hands of healthcare corporations who only want profit and will lobby as much as possible to keep the status quo.

You people need to see beyond party lines on issues. That's why nothing can get done in this country.
 
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#54
#54
LouderVol said:
and since I recently resigned up and saw the costs, and had compared to older costs I will post what I pay and paid.

2013 pre-mandate: $233 month total cost, company covered 183 leaving me with 50 to
pay myself.
2018: $743 a month total cost, company covers 500, leaving me with 243.

2018 was actually the first time I have seen my costs drop (a whole 15 bucks), so 2017 was the most expensive I have paid at 258 a month. same plan, the whole time. did switch providers after the mandate but luckily it was the earlier providers parent company.
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That can’t be true Obamacare made healthcare much more accessible and affordable according to the Left. In 1999, I was a subcontractor for a golf course in Georgia so I had to purchase my own insurance. I literally called the first insurance broker with an ad in the phone book and purchased a plan for $64 a month. It was so difficult finding access. I literally had to look in the phone book. Now, there is one option to choose from in my state and it is overpriced and useless; $240 a month with a 3500$ deductible. It is just the best
 
#56
#56
So I’ll throw out another couple of points.

Tort reform: Malpractice and incompetence should have consequences. Probably not the level of consequences we routinely see. I’d like to see medical boards police their DRs more. However there has to be a means of insuring the good ole boy network doesn’t protect their own.

Experimental Trials: The “Right yo Try” stuff that just happened recently is great. We need more of it.

Dr’s and RNs contribute a major service to society and should see the rewards in their pay and compensation. Hospital administrators and the pushers of the mountains of paper? Throw them away and automate.
 
#59
#59
Yesterday, my insurance company declined a skin graft application for my leg because I'm not diabetic.

Because I'm not diabetic. Because I'm not sick enough to bother with.

I have had four major infections this year in my left leg because of ulcerations on my left shin. Those ulcerations exist because of vascular damage where I almost lost my left leg five years ago when I almost died of septic shock; my right leg didn't make it.

I am drowning my family in medical debt, despite having insurance. I cannot take a second job to pay it down because my doctors say the stress of it would likely cause me to lose my left leg.

I can't make it on my own anymore. There are days I wish I had died on the operating table on March 17, 2013, because the life insurance policy I took out while healthy would have set my family up financially. Sure, my wife still has a husband and my kids still have a father, but their lifestyle sucks because hospitals own our paychecks and will for years.

I'm not theory, I'm not a story in a news article, I'm a living, breathing person. This is personal to me. Our system is broken.
 
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#60
#60
USMC-TNVOL said:
It works when the government has more control over costs. No other countries have to worry about lobbying and profit built into certain aspects of their healthcare costs or excessive CEO profit and bonuses while we suffer for it. I wouldn't have had to worry about my sons EpiPen costs in Europe. Costs for ex are controlled to a certain extent.
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even with controlled costs it fails. did you read any of the links? even in countries with much higher tax rates the governments can't afford single payer. thats without the lobbying and profit, they can't afford it.

no. sorry. more government doesn't work. see what happened when they got more involved? it got exponentially worse. and you want to throw more in their hands?

what experience have you had with the government where you thought they should control more aspects of your life?

all universal does it change the bill from a check I right to my insurance company and or doctor to that same money going to the government as tax revenue they just piss away.
 
#62
#62
USMC-TNVOL said:
Yet we face a worse crisis of our own. People without healthcare, crappy healthcare while overpriced, people going into debt because of costs, and avoiding seeing a doctor because they cannot afford it. No system is perfect and probably won't ever be but I'm not going to let my healthcare future sit in the hands of healthcare corporations who only want profit and will lobby as much as possible to keep the status quo.

You people need to see beyond party lines on issues. That's why nothing can get done in this country.
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When did facts become party lines? Government oversight created the mess we are in now not healthcare corporation, which is precisely what created the mess in other countries. People that clamor for government control like to pretend healthcare has always been this way and it hasn’t nor was it inaccessible. You literally used to be able to choose from dozens of choices for any amount you were willing to spend and I did that for nearly 10 years. The government created this mess and now according to you the government is going to fix it. Sure it will
 
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#64
#64
LouderVol said:
even with controlled costs it fails. did you read any of the links? even in countries with much higher tax rates the governments can't afford single payer. thats without the lobbying and profit, they can't afford it.

no. sorry. more government doesn't work. see what happened when they got more involved? it got exponentially worse. and you want to throw more in their hands?

what experience have you had with the government where you thought they should control more aspects of your life?

all universal does it change the bill from a check I right to my insurance company and or doctor to that same money going to the government as tax revenue they just piss away.
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They still have those systems and people are using them. They will fix their issues as they go along unlike us where we just sit with the same ****ty system.

As I already said, what's worse than people dying or suffering because they can't afford healthcare? "Socialized medicine" is a boogeyman word for you and you would rather have people suffer and die or drown in debt than have a system that at least provides care for all and is more affordable.
 
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#66
#66
USMC-TNVOL said:
As a conservative leaning person, it pains me to see Republicans not look at the problem and see what has worked in many other countries. I've learned a lot as I'm pursuing my Master in Health Admin.

Right leaning people cry out about socialized healthcare but doesn't realize people like Teddy Roosevelt attempted it back in the early 1900s. If our GDP is almost 20% from healthcare while others are about half or lower, there is an issue of profit being built in and we need to do something about it. Insurance companies are corporations with one bottom line which is profit. The government should require insurance to be non profit or become a single payer system.
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Now I understand, you are still in college. Please list all the ways government subsidized healthcare has produced more cures, better outcomes, and lowered costs as compared to the US system over the last 100 years
 
#67
#67
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#68
#68
Mick said:
That is all you had to say that is fact. The rest is opinion. If you want to see things improve, changes need to be made. Replacing obamacare would be a start but with what and how? Repealing does nothing to address the problem of high healthcare costs.
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Please don't use the at least the Democrats did something arguement.
This is not one of the, do something even if it is wrong, type of things.
 
#69
#69
USMC-TNVOL said:
They still have those systems and people are using them. They will fix their issues as they go along unlike us where we just sit with the same ****ty system.

As I already said, what's worse than people dying or suffering because they can't afford healthcare? "Socialized medicine" is a boogeyman word for you and you would rather have people suffer and die or drown in debt than have a system that at least provides care for all and is more affordable.
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More affordable for whom? The people who actually pay taxes or the people who receive “free” healthcare?
 
#71
#71
The first thing to decide is healthcare a right or a privilege? From there we can decide what needs to be done to "fix" it.

If it is decided to be a right, single payer or something has to be setup to control costs and ensure everyone gets care.

If it is a privilege, then get the government out of health care and make people pay as they go/deal with insurance.

The problem now is we treat it like a right, guaranteed for all, but we can't control it. Either provide it for everyone with a system that gives it fairly equally or let the market figure it out for itself. If we choose the market route, then understand people are going to die when they can't afford care. A lot of people think that way until it is their mom, dad, grandma, brother, sister, etc. that is in need of care they can't pay for and then the tune changes.
 
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#72
#72
USMC-TNVOL said:
"Socialized medicine" is a boogeyman word for you and you would rather have people suffer and die or drown in debt than have a system that at least provides care for all and is more affordable.
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Exaggerate much? In socialized medicine your care will eventually be rationed by the government. It's not all unicorns and rainbows.

It sounds really awesome in the UK right now:

“There’s no real system or order; it’s a jungle in here,” said Nancy Harper, who had accompanied her 87-year-old grandmother, who was lying down and complaining of excruciating pain in her lower back.

“It’s been more than five hours,” Ms. Harper said. “We get to the front of the queue and then someone more ill comes in and we get pushed back. It’s outrageous.”

N.H.S. Overwhelmed in Britain, Leaving Patients to Wait - The New York Times
 
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#73
#73
landscapingvol said:
Now I understand, you are still in college. Please list all the ways government subsidized healthcare has produced more cures, better outcomes, and lowered costs as compared to the US system over the last 100 years
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What does me being in college have to do with anything? Oh, I'm a millennial who doesn't know anything compared to your vast expertise I'm sure. I'm doing my Masters and I'm 28 in case you were wondering. I didn't do college right after high school because I was in the Marine Corps my first 5 years.

The VA helped with research of malaria, neuropsych disorders, and made the first inplantable pacemaker among other several other things.
 
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#74
#74
theFallGuy said:
Exaggerate much? In socialized medicine your care will eventually be rationed by the government. It's not all unicorns and rainbows.

It sounds really awesome in the UK right now:

“There’s no real system or order; it’s a jungle in here,” said Nancy Harper, who had accompanied her 87-year-old grandmother, who was lying down and complaining of excruciating pain in her lower back.

“It’s been more than five hours,” Ms. Harper said. “We get to the front of the queue and then someone more ill comes in and we get pushed back. It’s outrageous.”

N.H.S. Overwhelmed in Britain, Leaving Patients to Wait - The New York Times
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Sounds like the local ER.
 
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#75
#75
volkyries said:
The first thing to decide is healthcare a right or a privilege? From there we can decide what needs to be done to "fix" it.

If it is decided to be a right, single payer or something has to be setup to control costs and ensure everyone gets care.

If it is a privilege, then get the government out of health care and make people pay as they go/deal with insurance.

The problem now is we treat it like a right, guaranteed for all, but we can't control it. Either provide it for everyone with a system that gives it fairly equally or let the market figure it out for itself. If we choose the market route, then understand people are going to die when they can't afford care. A lot of people think that way until it is their mom, dad, grandma, brother, sister, etc. that is in need of care they can't pay for and then the tune changes.
Click to expand...

Then understand people are going to die waiting for rationed care.

Canadian Wait Times: While Politicians Dither, Patients Die
 
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