The TP officially turns on Boehner

#151
#151
therealUT said:
It is for this reason that Congress needs to do away with omnibus bills.

All of these issues should be parceled out into individual bills:

Medicare - 50% cut voted on by the House; 20% cut voted on by the Senate; joint committee compromises at 35%; passes both chambers.

Each issue could and should be dealt with in this manner, and it makes Congress both more efficient and more transparent.
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Never, ever happening.
 
#153
#153
therealUT said:
It is for this reason that Congress needs to do away with omnibus bills.

All of these issues should be parceled out into individual bills:

Medicare - 50% cut voted on by the House; 20% cut voted on by the Senate; joint committee compromises at 35%; passes both chambers.

Each issue could and should be dealt with in this manner, and it makes Congress both more efficient and more transparent.
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I totally agree.

That takes the built in pig out for both sides.
 
#158
#158
therealUT said:
I choose not to read it; I have had plenty of sections of it repeated to me by my brother and I have listened to enough Glenn Beck on the radio to know that I have no use for him, his chicken little outlook, and his Islamaphobia.
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So you "choose" to have someone else tell you what he says and you based your decision on that. While i appreciate your response and honesty, it doesn't sound fair to rip that piece of work if you haven't examined it yourself.
I understand it is popular to rip Beck, because that is what the John Stewarts and Bill Mahrs and NBC tells you to do, but he makes alot of sense on many issues and the truth is he has been demonized some much that anything that comes from him isn't even given a chance. Many of his ideas aren't new at all and are just common sensical solutions to problems that calls for the individual instead of the government to be responsible for him/herself, what is controversial about that?
I mean honestly, can you give me a legitimate reason for the Beck hatred.
 
#159
#159
MUR73 said:
So you "choose" to have someone else tell you what he says and you based your decision on that. While i appreciate your response and honesty, it doesn't sound fair to rip that piece of work if you haven't examined it yourself.
I understand it is popular to rip Beck, because that is what the John Stewarts and Bill Mahrs and NBC tells you to do, but he makes alot of sense on many issues and the truth is he has been demonized some much that anything that comes from him isn't even given a chance. Many of his ideas aren't new at all and are just common sensical solutions to problems that calls for the individual instead of the government to be responsible for him/herself, what is controversial about that?
I mean honestly, can you give me a legitimate reason for the Beck hatred.
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Just a note:

Having been read direct passages is not the same as being told what someone has said. The way you're wording it sounds like it's coming from a third party.
 
#160
#160
MUR73 said:
So you "choose" to have someone else tell you what he says and you based your decision on that.
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I do not need anyone to tell me what Glenn Beck has said; I have listened to his radio show very often and I have come to the decision that I want nothing to do with that man and his ideas.

MUR73 said:
While i appreciate your response and honesty, it doesn't sound fair to rip that piece of work if you haven't examined it yourself.
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I am not sure I ever attacked the work; I said that Glenn Beck is a leader and advocate of the TP movement. I then said, every TPer I know regards his book as scripture. Where was I attacking the book? Am I not allowed to connect the movement, to the author, to the book, to the reader, who is a follower of the movement?

MUR73 said:
I understand it is popular to rip Beck, because that is what the John Stewarts and Bill Mahrs and NBC tells you to do,
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I do not own a TV, nor do I watch TV. You are trying to discredit me because you perceive me to be making assumptions without reading a book; yet, you make assumptions about me, that I watch TV, and what I watch without having ever met me. Your entire criticism wreaks of inconsistency and contradiction.

MUR73 said:
but he makes alot of sense on many issues and the truth is he has been demonized some much that anything that comes from him isn't even given a chance.
Many of his ideas aren't new at all and are just common sensical solutions to problems that calls for the individual instead of the government to be responsible for him/herself, what is controversial about that?
I mean honestly, can you give me a legitimate reason for the Beck hatred.
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I do not hate Glenn Beck; I think he makes plenty of racist remarks (of which I have quoted in this forum); for as long as I have listened to him (about ten years), he has consistently hearkened the end of America as we know it (which is why I referred to him as a chicken little); while I think his theatrics were good for waking me up in the morning on the drive to post, I think he has a tendency to sensationalize everything and make everything out to be an us v. them issue, with little to no room for negotiation and/or compromise.
 
#161
#161
therealUT said:
I do not need anyone to tell me what Glenn Beck has said; I have listened to his radio show very often and I have come to the decision that I want nothing to do with that man and his ideas.



I am not sure I ever attacked the work; I said that Glenn Beck is a leader and advocate of the TP movement. I then said, every TPer I know regards his book as scripture. Where was I attacking the book? Am I not allowed to connect the movement, to the author, to the book, to the reader, who is a follower of the movement?



I do not own a TV, nor do I watch TV. You are trying to discredit me because you perceive me to be making assumptions without reading a book; yet, you make assumptions about me, that I watch TV, and what I watch without having ever met me. Your entire criticism wreaks of inconsistency and contradiction.



I do not hate Glenn Beck; I think he makes plenty of racist remarks (of which I have quoted in this forum); for as long as I have listened to him (about ten years), he has consistently hearkened the end of America as we know it (which is why I referred to him as a chicken little); while I think his theatrics were good for waking me up in the morning on the drive to post, I think he has a tendency to sensationalize everything and make everything out to be an us v. them issue, with little to no room for negotiation and/or compromise.
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I will concede my assumptions about you getting your info from liberal TV and do apologize. however i am curious where you do get your news and views from. what are your influences then? I do , however, listen to Beck regularly and the notion that he is a racist is simply a falicy. Remember Context matters. If you want i can go Tit for Tat with soundbytes from Dems or Repubs with you that would make them sound racist if i took them out of context. Obama included, if that is your guy? To go one step further i would be willing to bet everything i have, which isn't much by the way, that me and you have said something(s) in our lives that was or could at least be percieved as racist also. i guess our opinions, like Becks, must disgusts you too. Of course i am assuming again aren't i, but i at least have percentages of a lifetime of spoken dialogue on my side for a racist slipup to have occured.
Beck sheds alot of light on subjects that would never make it to the light of day and need to be known in my opinion. I would also agree, with him that is, that somethings, not all, should not be negoitiated. I don't understand when personal responsible and fiscal solvency was such controversial ideas.
 
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#162
#162
rockytop9808 said:
Just a note:

Having been read direct passages is not the same as being told what someone has said. The way you're wording it sounds like it's coming from a third party.
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Just a note:
therealut seems to be capable of handling himself as we, being me and him , or is it he and i??????:question:are talking to one another. but feel free to chime in.
 
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#163
#163
MUR73 said:
Just a note, realut seems to be capable of handling himself as we, being me and him , or is it he and i??????:question:are talking to one another. but feel free to chime in.
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Just chiming in, especially since you apparently don't know what you're talking about. I feel like I have the right. If you don't like it, press ignore. Simple as that.
 
#164
#164
MUR73 said:
Just a note:
therealut seems to be capable of handling himself as we, being me and him , or is it he and i??????:question:are talking to one another. but feel free to chime in.
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A personal attack from Saint MUR?
 
#166
#166
MUR73 said:
I will concede my assumptions about you getting your info from liberal TV and do apologize. however i am curious where you do get your news and views from. what are your influences then? I do , however, listen to Beck regularly and the notion that he is a racist is simply a falicy. Remember Context matters. If you want i can go Tit for Tat with soundbytes from Dems or Repubs with you that would make them sound racist if i took them out of context. Obama included, if that is your guy? To go one step further i would be willing to bet everything i have, which isn't much by the way, that me and you have said something(s) in our lives that was or could at least be percieved as racist also. i guess our opinions, like Becks, must disgusts you too. Of course i am assuming again aren't i, but i at least have percentages of a lifetime of spoken dialogue on my side for a racist slipup to have occured.
Beck sheds alot of light on subjects that would never make it to the light of day and need to be known in my opinion. I would also agree, with him that is, that somethings, not all, should not be negoitiated. I don't understand when personal responsible and fiscal solvency was such controversial ideas.
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I have definitely made racist remarks in my life; I have also learned I was absolutely wrong in those remarks. I try my best to think before I speak and keep from making racist/sexist remarks. Some still perceive some remarks I make as offensive; it is perfectly acceptable for those persons to be disgusted if they feel offended.

I read the WSJ everyday; I check Drudge and Huffpo daily; I read religious texts, biographies, political manifestos, economic essays, histories, novels, and philosophical tracts. I think of myself as neither Conservative nor Liberal.

Obama is not my guy and never has been; I think he should be criticized on policy and public actions. If he postponed a critical decision in order to pray, I would criticize him in the same manner. His duty is to complete the job, not spend time with his deity.

Beck is an entertainer, as are Boortz, Franken, O'Reilly, D.L Hughley, Stewart, and Colbert. I think anyone who takes what any of these guys says (or any pundit, whether they be political, social, economic, philosophical, religious, etc.) as gospel or as some higher truth without subjecting it to a heavy amount of skepticism, to include listening to/reading the counter arguments is bein rash, and dangerously rash at that.

I have listened to what Beck has said in context; I have come away with the thought that he is ultra-jingoistic and ultra-anti-Muslim/Arab/Hispanic. I will stand by that thought. Should I give his book a chance? Maybe. Have I given him a chance? Yes.
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#171
#171
MUR73 said:
So you "choose" to have someone else tell you what he says and you based your decision on that. While i appreciate your response and honesty, it doesn't sound fair to rip that piece of work if you haven't examined it yourself.
I understand it is popular to rip Beck, because that is what the John Stewarts and Bill Mahrs and NBC tells you to do, but he makes alot of sense on many issues and the truth is he has been demonized some much that anything that comes from him isn't even given a chance. Many of his ideas aren't new at all and are just common sensical solutions to problems that calls for the individual instead of the government to be responsible for him/herself, what is controversial about that?
I mean honestly, can you give me a legitimate reason for the Beck hatred.
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I don't give a rip if it's popular to bash Beck. No one had to tell me anything for me to see what a charlatan he was.
 
#172
#172
therealUT said:
I have definitely made racist remarks in my life; I have also learned I was absolutely wrong in those remarks. I try my best to think before I speak and keep from making racist/sexist remarks. Some still perceive some remarks I make as offensive; it is perfectly acceptable for those persons to be disgusted if they feel offended.
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Thoughts and attitudes are more important than words. Words and actions will ALWAYS be the product of one's consistent thought life and cultivated attitudes.

Obama is not my guy and never has been; I think he should be criticized on policy and public actions. If he postponed a critical decision in order to pray, I would criticize him in the same manner. His duty is to complete the job, not spend time with his deity.
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Would it be right for me to demand that you draw a dichotomy between your behavior and your beliefs? Anyone who takes their faith seriously cannot help but have it inform their worldview and change their behavior. You may not like it... but you should respect it.

Beck is an entertainer...
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Entertainer? Historically entertainers have influenced kings and nations.

Do you likewise think the Hollywood types should butt out of politics and social discourse?

If Beck is 100% wrong then he is doing a valuable service to the public debate by allowing wrong ideas to be disproven... In that regard, I think it is telling that the left spends much more time accusing and calling names than actually disproving in toto the "historical facts" he cites in his diatribes.

He is a conspiracy theorist. He does go too far in assigning motives a la LG. But he also provides some insight that people need to look at for themselves.

Much if not most of the stuff he talks about I had heard about long before he came on the scene. Some of it is conjecture posing as something more. Some of it is true. Some of it is opinion.
 
#173
#173
sjt18 said:
Thoughts and attitudes are more important than words. Words and actions will ALWAYS be the product of one's consistent thought life and cultivated attitudes.
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True; words are a reflection of thoughts and attitudes, and actions are results of thoughts and attitudes. Of course, there are persons who say one thing and do another.

sjt18 said:
Would it be right for me to demand that you draw a dichotomy between your behavior and your beliefs? Anyone who takes their faith seriously cannot help but have it inform their worldview and change their behavior. You may not like it... but you should respect it.
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It would be right for you to demand that I am present for duty instead of at Church, Synagogue, Mosque, or Temple.

sjt18 said:
Entertainer? Historically entertainers have influenced kings and nations.

Do you likewise think the Hollywood types should butt out of politics and social discourse?
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I do not think they should butt out; however, I am not going to give credence to what they say simply because they are a celebrity. They have just as much of a burden of proof and just as much of a responsibility to lay out their deductively valid arguments as everyone else.

sjt18 said:
If Beck is 100% wrong then he is doing a valuable service to the public debate by allowing wrong ideas to be disproven... In that regard, I think it is telling that the left spends much more time accusing and calling names than actually disproving in toto the "historical facts" he cites in his diatribes.
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It is not just the left that spends time discrediting Beck; that said, I am not sure I care about whether or not he knows history. Knowing history does not make one a prophet; knowing history does not mean that one can come up with workable solutions. In my understanding of history, there are usually a thousand different things that someone could have done right and a thousand different things someone could have done wrong; historical knowledge simply gives one insight to the one decision picked by a person/government/nation/etc. and whether that turned out to ultimately be a right or wrong decision.

sjt18 said:
He is a conspiracy theorist. He does go too far in assigning motives a la LG. But he also provides some insight that people need to look at for themselves.
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I would rather persons just read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution by themselves; then maybe a Constistutional Law book, a Parliamentary Procedures Book, and a history of the SCOTUS.
 
#174
#174
therealUT said:
True; words are a reflection of thoughts and attitudes, and actions are results of thoughts and attitudes. Of course, there are persons who say one thing and do another.
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Which is also a reflection of their thoughts and attitudes... their "heart" if you will.

It would be right for you to demand that I am present for duty instead of at Church, Synagogue, Mosque, or Temple.
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Non sequitur. Free observance by one person in no way suggests a right to force others to do so. I have no more right to force you to use a Christian pov to derive your worldview and political views than you have to demand I use a secular humanist one.

It is not just the left that spends time discrediting Beck; that said, I am not sure I care about whether or not he knows history. Knowing history does not make one a prophet; knowing history does not mean that one can come up with workable solutions.
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Somewhat agree though I would suggest that not knowing history is a SERIOUS inhibitor to coming up with workable solutions.
I would rather persons just read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution by themselves; then maybe a Constistutional Law book, a Parliamentary Procedures Book, and a history of the SCOTUS.
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I would like for them to do that but listening to various pov's is invaluable for determining the truth of a matter.
 
#175
#175
sjt18 said:
1. Which is also a reflection of their thoughts and attitudes... their "heart" if you will.

2. Non sequitur. Free observance by one person in no way suggests a right to force others to do so. I have no more right to force you to use a Christian pov to derive your worldview and political views than you have to demand I use a secular humanist one.

3. Somewhat agree though I would suggest that not knowing history is a SERIOUS inhibitor to coming up with workable solutions.

4. I would like for them to do that but listening to various pov's is invaluable for determining the truth of a matter.
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1. Agree that actions are more telling than words; however, words have plenty of influence over one's own actions and on other's actions.

2. Individuals can worship whatever they please; however, I am not going to give someone leverage simple because they say their actions are in accord with any belief set.

3. I would say that a lack of historical knowledge is less of an inhibitor than a lack of knowledge of philosophical knowledge.

4. Refusing to read Glenn Beck does not mean that one is refusing from taking in many different and various points of view.
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