The Weightlifters Thread

#6,127
#6,127
RockyTop411 said:
Stupid question, I know - but is it possible to lose bf while gaining muscle mass?
Click to expand...

There are a few considerations.

1. Experience: Beginners can show rapid loss in body fat and rise in lean body mass in the beginning stages of training. This makes them think that they are on the path to greatness, only to realize that within a few months. They must fight and scrap for an ounce in either direction. :)

2. Recomposition: You must define the time frame for gaining muscle and losing fat to answer the question. Can the both goals be accomplished within a 24 hour period? Probably not. However, if you define the period of time being, let's say, 3 months, it can be accomplished, as one poster mentioned, training near maintenance level of calories, though the process is awfully slow.

Another option is to cycle your calories above and below maintenance over a period of time. Eating in a surplus some days, and below maintenance on other days can also result in a recomposition.

3. Steroids: They make magic happen, at a cost.

As BB said, going for lean gains is the best approach, IMO. I cut a huge amount of fat, getting down to 8.4% and weighing 147 pounds. I have sought to slowly add muscle mass over the course of the last 8 months, and currently sit 14 pounds heavier at 161 pounds and 10% body fat.

My net gains in this time period has been 10 pounds of lean body mass, and 3.8 pounds of fat. Not perfect results, but pretty acceptable, IMO. In fact, over 2.5 pounds of that fat came in the two weeks after I finished my cut. I did not know what I was doing, so if you look past that, I have put on 1 pound of fat since July, and 9+ pounds of lean body mass. :hi:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#6,128
#6,128
nicksjuzunk said:
There are a few considerations.

1. Experience: Beginners can show rapid loss in body fat and rise in lean body mass in the beginning stages of training. This makes them think that they are on the path to greatness, only to realize that within a few months. They must fight and scrap for an ounce in either direction. :)

2. Recomposition: You must define the time frame for gaining muscle and losing fat to answer the question. Can the both goals be accomplished within a 24 hour period? Probably not. However, if you define the period of time being, let's say, 3 months, it can be accomplished, as one poster mentioned, training near maintenance level of calories, though the process is awfully slow.

Another option is to cycle your calories above and below maintenance over a period of time. Eating in a surplus some days, and below maintenance on other days can also result in a recomposition.

3. Steroids: They make magic happen, at a cost.

As BB said, going for lean gains is the best approach, IMO. I cut a huge amount of fat, getting down to 8.4% and weighing 147 pounds. I have sought to slowly add muscle mass over the course of the last 8 months, and currently sit 14 pounds heavier at 161 pounds and 10% body fat.

My net gains in this time period has been 10 pounds of lean body mass, and 3.8 pounds of fat. Not perfect results, but pretty acceptable, IMO. In fact, over 2.5 pounds of that fat came in the two weeks after I finished my cut. I did not know what I was doing, so if you look past that, I have put on 1 pound of fat since July, and 9+ pounds of lean body mass. :hi:
Click to expand...

Another personal experience...

I pursued the magical recomp for about two years, calculating every calorie, cycling high and low days. I got some results, but mostly just looked exactly the same.

Finally, I decided to pursue the cut only, trying to preserve muscle mass. Yes, I got thinner than I wanted, but love the leanness. Building it lean from that point is my preferred method, after trying both.
 
#6,130
#6,130
Thrasher865 said:
I think I've seen it mentioned, but has anybody tried intermittent fasting?

How did it affect your training?
Click to expand...

Yes.

I followed Martin Berkhan's LeanGains protocol on my cut to lose my fat. I also continued with it on my bulk. This week, I begin to implement it again, as I prefer it as a lifestyle.

My training was semi-fasted, meaning no calories during the day leading up to my workout. I used 10 grams of BCAA for pre-workout, and other non-caloric pre-workout powder.

The first couple of times, it may feel a little rough, especially if you are also carb cycling. However, as I continued, I ended up hitting personal records on bench, deadlift and squat during my cut, while cycling carbs, in a calorie deficit, and with fasted training, so you do adjust.

Martin is pissed at the world and has stopped writing, but Andy Morgan has some good stuff out there on IF if you are interested to learn more.
 
#6,131
#6,131
Throwing in numbers for the example. They're obviously not meant to be concrete, but will illustrate the point.

If you work a desk job, aren't active, weigh 250 lbs w/ 20% body fat, it will be fairly easy to lose weight and gain muscle mass.

If you are already somewhat muscly, and around 220 lbs 12-15% body fat, it's almost impossible to gain while you're losing. That's basically what separates pro bodybuilders from people like me.
 
#6,132
#6,132
Awesome, thanks. I had heard of people seeing PR's while cutting with it, which seemed too good to be true.

where did your workouts fit into your fasting schedule, or does it matter? I'm concerned about fasting in the hours following a workout. If I eat a large meal immediately after a workout and then fast for 16+ hours, is this alright?
 
#6,133
#6,133
Thrasher865 said:
Awesome, thanks. I had heard of people seeing PR's while cutting with it, which seemed too good to be true.

where did your workouts fit into your fasting schedule, or does it matter? I'm concerned about fasting in the hours following a workout. If I eat a large meal immediately after a workout and then fast for 16+ hours, is this alright?
Click to expand...

Martin's method is fasted training (10 gm BCAA), huge meal afterwards, and fill in all of your calories after the workout. So for me, I had a morning training, so it looked like this.

8:00 am Train on BCAA
9:00 am Break fast with post-workout shake, go home, eat big.
9:30-5:00 eat the rest of my calories, but the last meal should have a big source of protein, casein, cottage cheese, and egg whites are good choices due to slow absorption rates. Also, lots of fibrous veggies to slow digestion.
5:00pm - 9:00am Fast.

You should not fast after your workout. That's where the food goes. :hi:
 
#6,134
#6,134
Thrasher865 said:
Awesome, thanks. I had heard of people seeing PR's while cutting with it, which seemed too good to be true.

where did your workouts fit into your fasting schedule, or does it matter? I'm concerned about fasting in the hours following a workout. If I eat a large meal immediately after a workout and then fast for 16+ hours, is this alright?
Click to expand...

The PR's are most likely not attributed to the IF itself, but more towards the type of training that comes with it. Many on LeanGains adopt a Reverse Pyramid style, which minimizes work in the gym, maintaining and increasing strength, in order to preserve muscle in a calorie deficit. I've entered a RPT program into the Bodyspace database, if you want to have a look.
 
#6,135
#6,135
Thanks for all the replies, guys.

I'm 5'11"-6'0" it really varies, 170-175 lbs (I'll know for sure in a couple of days), and I've decided I want to cut since it's mid- Feb and I'd like to get abs.

I'm close, I think, and to maintain where I'm at right now I'd need to eat 2750 calories a day. To lose fat loss "aggressively" (20%) I'd need to eat 2200 calories a day.

CARBS PROTEIN FAT FIBER CALORIES
GRAMS per day 219.8 219.8 48.8 35 - 43 2198
Click to expand...

Any tips? I live on campus so it's hard to eat specifically and get what I need exactly.

Also, any guesses on my BF% would be nice.
 
#6,140
#6,140
RockyTop411 said:
Thanks for all the replies, guys.

I'm 5'11"-6'0" it really varies, 170-175 lbs (I'll know for sure in a couple of days), and I've decided I want to cut since it's mid- Feb and I'd like to get abs.

I'm close, I think, and to maintain where I'm at right now I'd need to eat 2750 calories a day. To lose fat loss "aggressively" (20%) I'd need to eat 2200 calories a day.



Any tips? I live on campus so it's hard to eat specifically and get what I need exactly.

Also, any guesses on my BF% would be nice.
Click to expand...

I estimate 25-27% on your body fat.

20% is not "aggressive", IMO. That is pretty much the standard for beginning fat loss. I cycled 30% below on off days, and maintenance on workout days.

Dropping your fat that low is not going to be good for your testosterone or leptin levels. I'm not sure if you think dietary fat makes you fat, but that is not true. It's excess calories, no matter where it comes from, though there is an interesting study done to suggest that maybe protein does not.

Keep that fat at 20% of your diet, at least. Eat 1.25 per gram x body weight in protein. The rest can come from carbs or fat, whatever your preference is. That is what I would recommend as a baseline.

The excessive protein is to spare muscle catabolism and also for satiating effects.

Also, I'm not sure where you are pulling your daily calorie needs, but unless you are very active, that is way too many calories to drop weight.
 
#6,141
#6,141
nicksjuzunk said:
I estimate 25-27% on your body fat.

20% is not "aggressive", IMO. That is pretty much the standard for beginning fat loss. I cycled 30% below on off days, and maintenance on workout days.

Dropping your fat that low is not going to be good for your testosterone or leptin levels. I'm not sure if you think dietary fat makes you fat, but that is not true. It's excess calories, no matter where it comes from, though there is an interesting study done to suggest that maybe protein does not.

Keep that fat at 20% of your diet, at least. Eat 1.25 per gram x body weight in protein. The rest can come from carbs or fat, whatever your preference is. That is what I would recommend as a baseline.

The excessive protein is to spare muscle catabolism and also for satiating effects.

Also, I'm not sure where you are pulling your daily calorie needs, but unless you are very active, that is way too many calories to drop weight.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the informative response.

I just used the term "aggressive" because that was the term used on: IIFYM Calculator

I'll gladly take tips on what to change and alter.

My daily calorie needs at 5'11", 173lbs, and say 25% BF is 2332 to maintain and 1724 with a 25% drop for a cut.

My BMR is 1644.
 
#6,142
#6,142
RockyTop411 said:
Thanks for the informative response.

I just used the term "aggressive" because that was the term used on: IIFYM Calculator

I'll gladly take tips on what to change and alter.

My daily calorie needs at 5'11", 173lbs, and say 25% BF is 2332 to maintain and 1724 with a 25% drop for a cut.

My BMR is 1644.
Click to expand...

As long as you track your calories as accurately as possible, it doesn't matter how many calories you start with, because your results will tell you what you need to do.

I calculate my calories based on Katch-Mcardle system, but I find it shoots me low, compared to what I seem to need to maintain.

Choose your numbers, try to hit them for two weeks, and reasses
 
#6,143
#6,143
What do you do for meal prep? Make all on one day or day by day?

It's extremely difficult to track calories as a college student because the cafeteria doesn't always serve proper food.
 
#6,144
#6,144
RockyTop411 said:
What do you do for meal prep? Make all on one day or day by day?

It's extremely difficult to track calories as a college student because the cafeteria doesn't always serve proper food.
Click to expand...

You will have your challenges with the cafeteria, not knowing the preparation, and the fact that getting your protein is going to be near impossible without supplementation. Not the ideal situation, but anything can be accomplished with discipline and planning.

For me, I have a meticulous personality, so I eat at home 9/10 times, and weigh everything. Myfitnesspal is my best friend. I don't need to do a lot of meal prep, because I always have the same foods that I enjoy.

Pork tenderloin in the crockpot - lean pulled pork sandwiches
Grilled chicken breast
Oats
Fruit
Rice
Frozen berries
Fat free yogurt
Casein and egg white shake before bed.

These are staples for me, and depending on how much I eat of something else, I can make my macros work on that last shake of the day. Need more fat? Add flax seeds and peanut butter. Need more protein? Add extra egg whites. Need more carbs, throw in some oats.

An investment in a crockpot would be helpful. Learn to love chicken breast. Probably around 40 grams of protein for a breast, depending on the size.
 
#6,145
#6,145
RockyTop411 said:
What do you do for meal prep? Make all on one day or day by day?

It's extremely difficult to track calories as a college student because the cafeteria doesn't always serve proper food.
Click to expand...

Also, I just checked my journal from when I was about your weight. I worked with 1,800 on off days, and 2,800 on workout days, FWIW.
 
#6,146
#6,146
RockyTop411 said:
What do you do for meal prep? Make all on one day or day by day?

It's extremely difficult to track calories as a college student because the cafeteria doesn't always serve proper food.
Click to expand...

If you're at UT, I would say I always got much healthier selections with more flexibility in Smokey's or Sophie's (I think that's what it was called). I ate a lot at the buffet in Sophie's. It's below one of the dorms next to North Carrick.
 
#6,147
#6,147
nicksjuzunk said:
Martin's method is fasted training (10 gm BCAA), huge meal afterwards, and fill in all of your calories after the workout. So for me, I had a morning training, so it looked like this.
Click to expand...

Can you explain the cited benefits of fasting before training?

With my schedule, I have to work out after work, so it would be far easier for me to eat lunch, then lift right before dinner and then fast until lunch the following day.
 
#6,148
#6,148
Meal 1: 3 Egg whites, 1 Whole Egg, 1 Cup of quaker oats (425 Cal, 26.8g/Protein, 55.2g/Carb, 14.3g/Fat)
Meal 2: Protein, 1 ½ scoops, ½ cup of oats (375 Cal, 43.5g/Protein, 34.5g/Carbs, 6g/Fat)
Meal 3: Tuna, whole wheat round bread, green beans, 2 tbsp Peanut butter (519 Cal, 55g/Protein, 34 g/Carbs, 18g/Fat)
Meal 4: Protein 1 ½ scoops, ½ cup of oats (375 Cal, 43.5/g Protein, 34.5g/Carbs, 6g/Fat)
Meal 5: 4oz Grilled chicken breast, 1 cup white rice, 1 cup of broccoli (507 Cal, 36g/Protein, 62g/Carb, 8.23g/Fat)

Cal = 2201
g/Protein = 204.8
g/Carbs = 220.2
g/Fat = 52.53
Click to expand...

Example of a diet plan I made.

I know it's 2200 calories, but I think my macros are on point.
 
#6,149
#6,149
Thrasher865 said:
If you're at UT, I would say I always got much healthier selections with more flexibility in Smokey's or Sophie's (I think that's what it was called). I ate a lot at the buffet in Sophie's. It's below one of the dorms next to North Carrick.
Click to expand...

Well, the only cafeteria they have near Carrick is PCB in pres court. It's above Chick Fil A, and its east from Carrick. It's hard to find food at that one but I'll have to try Smokies out for sure!
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top