This class comes down to one thing...

[RockyTopTexas]

As for Tee..lets not forget that we run the ball.. If im a 5* im playing in the spread.. its not that crazy that he went to another school (Clemson a Championship Team)

 

[VolGee4]

This class is defined by Butch. A coach that the recruiting world has figured out can't develop elite talent.

April 27, 2017 says otherwise.

 

[TAF]

Oh look. Another life championship joke. That is really, really funny and original. Wait, no.....no it isn't. It is simply tired and stale. But, you do you, if it makes you feel better.

The championship of life thing is as done as saying cool beans. Please stop saying both

They're still loading that bandwagon with fans, you still have a spot so why don't you go jump on it and gtfo..........

Here's "One Thing"...

Tennessee head coach Butch Jones walks off the field following the 45-34 loss to Vanderbilt at Vanderbilt Stadium on Sunday, Nov. 27, 2016.

 

[Foster's Tacos]

Here's "One Thing"...

Cool

 

[Bring_Back_Dooley]

Here's "One Thing"...

Tennessee head coach Butch Jones walks off the field following the 45-34 loss to Vanderbilt at Vanderbilt Stadium on Sunday, Nov. 27, 2016.

Yeah, I think you're on the wrong message board, champ.

 

[Section N Row 5]

That's odd considering 247 only shows UT with 1 5* and 4 4* signees. None of the teams ranked ahead of them has less than 9 4/5* players. The 87.14 avg score they gave UT signees is lower than all of the avg's of the teams above them and 21 of the 24 other programs in their top 25.

If 247 "loves" this class... they have a really, really odd way of expressing that love.

You are looking at the composite rating, you have to look at each player to see the star rating from 247.

Jordan Murphy is a 3 star 0.8883 composite
He is a 91 4 star on 247 rating

247 composite class is 17
247 rating is 11

 

[sanefan]

Y'all a bunch of star gazers. Jordan Matthews was 3 star going to Vandy. Where is he now? A pro player. Stars mean crap tbh.

Please just stop with the "Stars mean crap" crap. We can all find multiple individual examples of 3-star or lower guys who turn out to be great and 5-star can't miss guys who fail miserably.

However, NO credible source disputes that a much higher percentage of 4-5 star recruits become contributing starters than 0-3 star recruits. Raw numbers don't cut it, so keep that to yourself. there are 1000's more 0-3 star rated players in the last 3+ years than 4-5 star.

Bottom line is the more 4-5 star players, the more successful a program is likely to be. Exactly how successful will depend on the coach. Aside from this year, Mike Dantonio would be someone most would say did more with less, and Les Miles did less with more. But for any given coach, if they recruit higher rated players, will get better results if the only criteria is physical talent.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Please just stop with the "Stars mean crap" crap. We can all find multiple individual examples of 3-star or lower guys who turn out to be great and 5-star can't miss guys who fail miserably.

However, NO credible source disputes that a much higher percentage of 4-5 star recruits become contributing starters than 0-3 star recruits. Raw numbers don't cut it, so keep that to yourself. there are 1000's more 0-3 star rated players in the last 3+ years than 4-5 star.

Bottom line is the more 4-5 star players, the more successful a program is likely to be. Exactly how successful will depend on the coach. Aside from this year, Mike Dantonio would be someone most would say did more with less, and Les Miles did less with more. But for any given coach, if they recruit higher rated players, will get better results if the only criteria is physical talent.

I posted this in the RFFT thread earlier, according to DOC and Heather on the sports animal this morning, no team since 1996 has one the National Championship without finishing in the top ten in recruiting the 4 years prior.

 

[Section N Row 5]

I posted this in the RFFT thread earlier, according to DOC and Heather on the sports animal this morning, no team since 1996 has one the National Championship without finishing in the top ten in recruiting the 4 years prior.

Not true, was posted in the football forum that the 4 year average from 2003 to 2016, 11 of the 14 did.

2003 LSU 12th
2010 Auburn 16th
2016 Clemson 13th

Not saying it's not important, just that statement is wrong

The fight is over.

There is no debate, and never should have been.

Carry on, gents.


History shows national titles without elite recruiting over 4 years is rare

 

[InVOLuntary]

Not true, was posted in the football forum that the 4 year average from 2003 to 2016, 11 of the 14 did.

2003 LSU 12th
2010 Auburn 16th
2016 Clemson 13th

Not saying it's not important, just that statement is wrong

Maybe they were messing with the numbers by choosing different recruiting services for different years. They definitely said that. Maybe they're just wrong.

 

[Hank Bukowski]

I don't start a lot of threads anymore but I thought this topic was worth its own discussion...

In all of my years of following recruiting I'm not sure I've ever seen one class be so thoroughly defined by one player...and that player (IMO) was Tee Higgins...

Adding Higgins would have only bumped us to about #12 in the various rankings so it's not like we are suddenly top 5 with him...but there's more to it than just the ranking...we lost a 5 star can't miss talent out of back yard in a highly public fashion...and then to add insult to injury our 5 star WR leaves early for the draft...leaving a gaping hole that Higgins would have filled perfectly...

Maybe it's just me...maybe the rest of you see other significant holes that would still bother you even if we landed Higgins...but to me it's simply comes down to him...add him to this class and I'm celebrating a really good and perfectly acceptable NSD...losing him made this class below average and disappointing to me

Well said. Losing him hurt a lot. But it's worse than just him. We only got what...three out of the top-10 players in Tennessee this year?? Only three native sons will wear the orange.and white?

That cannot happen. As good/decent as Butch was recruiting the state his first three years, something has gone wrong. When any team not named Alabama comes into Tennessee and gets our best HS players from under our noses, something is clearly off.

Maybe Fulmer can help guide Butch.

 

[UTwild82]

This class will build quality depth and produce several high impact stars. Period. It's a solid class. No reason for disappointment.

This is how I see it. Yeah, having a few more guys would have helped but it's not a terrible class. Along with a new S&C coach and DB coach I'm cautiously optimistic about next year.

 

[bignewt]

Maybe they were messing with the numbers by choosing different recruiting services for different years. They definitely said that. Maybe they're just wrong.

No surprise they are buffoons.

 

[UTwick]

This class comes down to one thing...
And I can sum it all up in just one word: courage, dedication, daring, pride, pluck, spirit, grit, mettle, and G-U-T-S, *guts*. Why, this class has got more guts in it's little finger than most of us have in our large intestine, including the colon!

I think that the large intestine and colon are on in the same, guts are guts.

 

[UTwick]

The championship of life thing is as done as saying cool beans. Please stop saying both

Far out!

 

[The Dog]

Hey let's go to the Super Bowl. Again. I know, it's getting a little boring watching us do it over and over again. So let's throw a wrinkle in there. This year, let's do it with a bunch of short white boys at wide receiver. Let's say from Texas Tech, Kent State, and... let's see, just to make sure everyone knows we can do whatever the heck we want and still win? Let's say Monmouth.
Sincerely,
The New England Patriots

Danny Amendola (3 star, 5'11", Texas Tech)
Julian Edelman (2 star, 6'0", Kent State)
Chris Hogan (Penn State lacrosse player, one year playing football at Monmouth, 6'1")

The way I see it, either:

1) Recruiting evaluations are an inexact science, and those three were far better than anyone thought.
2) The evaluations were right about talent and potential but if you coach someone and put them in a system that suits them they can succeed, and punch far above their weight.

Either way, I'll know a lot more how I feel about this class around, say, 2020. For now, I'll stick with welcoming them to the Vols!

I, absolutely hate the Patriots, but I completely agree with u

 

[The Dog]

No surprise they are buffoons.

Exactly. Of all the people on sports radio, dude(not newt) picks Doc and Heather to quote. Come on, man

 

[TNslammabama]

I am so tired of watching us sign 3 star athletes, when our competition is signing multiple 4 and 5 star football players. It all starts with the talent on the field, coaching can only do so much, but better athletes will always be where good football teams begin. Butch cannot get those athletes unless they are legacies, and he is missing on those now. Please let's get an AD that will get us a top level head coach!!!!

Agree. Not looking at the worst site for UT, but looking at ESPN, Georgia got 4 5-star, 17 4-star, and 5 3-star signees.
UT got 1 5-star, 6 4-star, and 20 3-star players. Kirby Smart SMOKED Butch in the state of Georgia, getting 18 players signed in all, and 16 of them were 4 and 5-star. We all know how UT depends on consistently signing talent from Georgia. Bama of course only signed 2 or 3 3-star players. I don't think Butch, based on previous player development and retention, is going to be competitive with UGA much longer if this continues next year, and we might as well get used to losing to Bama by 40 or 50-something to 10 or 14 forever. The possibility of being dominated by Bama and Georgia for the foreseeable future is repulsive, disgusting, and hideous to me. Alternative, new AD hires WINNER for coach, whatever the cost. We should be playing for national championships at UT, not hoping to win the SEC East!

 

[daj2576]

It never comes down to one player. The rankings when it comes to specific players simply aren't that accurate and never have been. The most 5* players I've seen in a single class was Fulmer's next to last. He landed five of them. Do you remember any of these great contributors to UT football? Chris Donald, Kenny O'Neal, Brent Vinson, Ben Martin.

Martin of course played through injuries but was never a 5* level contributor. The others were busts. Only Berry lived up to the hype.


HOWEVER.... when you look at the quality of classes being signed by their "star average" or some other consistent factor like that then there is a pretty obvious correlation almost all of the time between talent and wins. So this class is defined by 3.29... 3.29 stars on average.

"Average" is a pretty good way of labeling it. Not top tier. Not even 2nd tier. Just "average". An average of the average stars of SEC recruiting classes this year is 3.31.... average. UT was 7th out of 14 teams. Average. The average SEC team this year signed 9.2 4/5* players. UT signed 9... Average.

The problem is that average talent won't win championships. Average talent lands you in the bottom tier with occasional "up" years when you win 9 to break into the 2nd tier. Worse yet, Jones has yet to prove he's even an average coach when it comes to player development, team management, and game day.

The main difference between Jones and Les Miles right now is that Miles always loaded his team with talent and a good S&C program.

Very odd math.

Rivals has UT with a 15th ranked class. There are over 120 teams in the top division.

That means UT basically has a class in the top ten percent of all of college football.

But, one class doesn't really show much. Four years of class averages is highly predictive. That said the 2016 Vols had a four year average with a low of 21. Next year's team will have a four average with a low of 15. That means the 2017 Vols by this metric will have a more talented team than 2016 (I'll publish the whole matrix later).

To keep the upward trend Jones has established, he basically needs a top five class in 2018.

This upcoming year is the truly make or break year, I think.

 

[jarnol32]

Really Butch Jones's tenure comes down to this season. Win the east or have a successful 10 win season in 2017 and recruiting will get a huge boost... If he fails to turn the corner we may be looking for a new coach for 2018. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. I think 2017 is going to be a good year, and butch is gonna turn the corner and get us back to the sec championship game.

 

[jason3713]

It never comes down to one player. The rankings when it comes to specific players simply aren't that accurate and never have been. The most 5* players I've seen in a single class was Fulmer's next to last. He landed five of them. Do you remember any of these great contributors to UT football? Chris Donald, Kenny O'Neal, Brent Vinson, Ben Martin.

Martin of course played through injuries but was never a 5* level contributor. The others were busts. Only Berry lived up to the hype.


HOWEVER.... when you look at the quality of classes being signed by their "star average" or some other consistent factor like that then there is a pretty obvious correlation almost all of the time between talent and wins. So this class is defined by 3.29... 3.29 stars on average.

"Average" is a pretty good way of labeling it. Not top tier. Not even 2nd tier. Just "average". An average of the average stars of SEC recruiting classes this year is 3.31.... average. UT was 7th out of 14 teams. Average. The average SEC team this year signed 9.2 4/5* players. UT signed 9... Average.

The problem is that average talent won't win championships. Average talent lands you in the bottom tier with occasional "up" years when you win 9 to break into the 2nd tier. Worse yet, Jones has yet to prove he's even an average coach when it comes to player development, team management, and game day.

The main difference between Jones and Les Miles right now is that Miles always loaded his team with talent and a good S&C program.

Well you are a well below average poster, so the Vols beat the **** out of you signing day.

Oh and the difference between Jones and Miles is Jones has a job right now.

 

[sanddune50]

Outside of Crosby, I'm really disappointed in our D-line recruiting.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

This class will build quality depth and produce several high impact stars. Period. It's a solid class. No reason for disappointment.

Yeah thats how championship teams are built. Lol.

 

[bignewt]

Outside of Crosby, I'm really disappointed in our D-line recruiting.

Butler and Bennett will eat. Stand back and watch.

 

[sanddune50]

Really there are 27 signed yesterday that beg to differ. Also see Barnett, Sutton, Dobbs etc... all of who were 3* coming out!

Bye Felicia!

:thud:

Tennesseeduke

Barnett was a highly rated 4 star recruit,

But you could also hit him with Antonio Brown, Eric Fisher, and Isiah Pead. Kamara's stock went through the roof as well. Malone looked like a different player this year. Wrongroute is generally good for a one shot zinger. He finds himself in the deeper waters when pushed to back up his take.