This describes what has happened to college football perfectly.

[HammondB3Vol]

They also need to put a price on the brand marketing and advertising that comes from being associated with a big name brand. These players wouldn't be worth any NIL money if they didn't put on those college jerseys and represent those teams. They only gain this perceived value when they play for the Tennessees or the Notre Dames of the sport, etc. The school brands are the actual thing of value; that is, people are invested in the performance of the teams, not the players. If it were otherwise, these supposedly put upon players would just leave school entirely and market their NIL rights on their own. If the "Jayden Daniels" brand actually had value, then he'd have no reason to put up with the wicked, evil, oppressive college football environment, right? Just leave college and go sell his brand direct to companies, without worrying about following those pesky NCAA rules.

Oh, what's that? He wouldn't make a dime you say? Huh. Fancy that. Interesting, isn't it?

It's funny how people always complain about how "the NCAA shouldn't restrict player NIL rights," when the fact is no player was ever prevented from selling their rights. A player could have done so whenever they wanted. They could march right out there and sell them today. The only thing they couldn't do was be eligible to play on college teams if they did so, for myriad reasons that are going to become more and more apparent as the sport continues on its current trajectory.

But that said, awful interesting how none of those college ever chose to do that. Awful interesting.

Well said, sir.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Soooo ... they want to fundamentally change the sport, but ... want everyone else to treat the sport like nothing has changed? Oh, oh yeah, I'm sure they'd like to do that.

My point from the start has been that "keeping that university affiliation" for a business that has no real ties seems silly to me. In a world where players come and go as they please, coaches come and go as they please, where nothing is constant and no one is here longer than the money keeps them, I think all that rah rah college stuff rings hollow. Maybe that's the real thing of it, yeah? Maybe it always was a hustle. Really good marketing I guess. Once upon a time, I don't think it was. Ah well. Just another antiquated notion, I suppose.

It's a brand. The Vols is a brand like Jimmy Dean sausage. Jimmy's long dead and Sara Lee owns the brand now. Does that change the brand in your eyes?

If Vols football is on Saturday, the Orange britches are out there, Neyland is fired up, and the football is competitive and exciting....... that's why people watch.

People don't come to watch Vandy football, despite it having many, many years of tradition, because the football sucks (relatively speaking.)

Seriously, how often do you think about these players as college guys and not players? Our primary contact and knowledge of them is via the football program. Only RARELY does school even get mentioned other than as the UT Vols brand.

 

[TheDeeble]

Soooo ... they want to fundamentally change the sport, but ... want everyone else to treat the sport like nothing has changed? Oh, oh yeah, I'm sure they'd like to do that.

Who is this "they" you speak of that wants to fundamentally change the sport?

My point from the start has been that "keeping that university affiliation" for a business that has no real ties seems silly to me.

It may seem silly to you but that is the one thing that will keep the money flowing. Yes colleges owning the second most dominant sport in the US when that's not really their function is weird. But it evolved over the years. It's a pre-established fan base that rivals professional franchises and it will likely not be replaced. A fan base that will pay tons of money, buy tons of merchandise, and travel around the country to watch their team.

 

[ArmchairQB]

It’s a sad state of affairs when a multi-billion dollar enterprise is threatened by the players responsible for its product having more of a say in determining their own worth.

School-managed NIL is just more of the aforementioned rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. It’s trying to let football players get directly paid, with a wink wink about what they’re getting paid for, lest anyone think they might be entitled to any kind of collective bargaining rights.

Does it all suck because it means a departure from what we know and love? Of course it does. But I’ve got no right to expect some kid to conform to my personal idea of what he should be putting on his jersey for. He’s the one busting his butt every day to make sure the assistant rowing coach is getting paid. If he wants paid too, more power to him.

 

[Jbob1871]

Just wait. You’ll see. This is just in its infancy stage. It’s gonna destroy the love of the game

It already has

 

[volfan102455]

I don't have a problem with students paying for anything but the SCHOOLS are offering the scholarships and the COLLECTIVES are offering the NIL deals.

You make it sound like the students have a gun to their head making them do this. The schools and collectives aren't being forced by anyone to participate.

Capitalism is working just fine in the SEC. SEC schools are making huge football money and they're making "market value" offers to athletes to get their services. If they aren't, the players take their services elsewhere, just like you'd probably do in their shoes.

What schools AREN'T doing is saying the students getting NIL have to forgo that scholarship. That's STILL how the market works. The value of the players to the school is: the value of the scholarship + NIL money.

Just because you disagree that it should be that high doesn't mean crap.

Agree no one is forced to contribute to the NIL. I choose not to, but I know the NIL money is from donors who would have contributed to the general funds that may no longer do so. And the continued focus on NIL as a way to win recruits will lead to more of that.

When there is no money to update the facilities, because the donors are all contributing to NIL, I guarantee you folks will complain about that.

As for SEC making huge football money - you do realize that football supplies the dollars for other sports? Most of the ADs barely break even, some don't.

 

[volfan102455]

It's unconstitutional to deny people the right to make money off their NIL, period. Just because they are in college doesn't mean they shouldn't off their NIL.

You can make money off your NIL, except for your lack of skills to do so. That's the only difference between you and them.

There are a few of the athletes that are able to create a brand on their own - but the majority of them are able to create a brand due to the association with a college football team. No association with a college football team = NO BRAND and NO NIL. The majority of them don't have any more of a skill set than I do. If they did, they would not need a collective to help them do that. And they would not need to risk injuries to play football to make money.

The only reason folks know about these players is because they play football at the University they follow.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Agree no one is forced to contribute to the NIL. I choose not to, but I know the NIL money is from donors who would have contributed to the general funds that may no longer do so. And the continued focus on NIL as a way to win recruits will lead to more of that.

When there is no money to update the facilities, because the donors are all contributing to NIL, I guarantee you folks will complain about that.

As for SEC making huge football money - you do realize that football supplies the dollars for other sports? Most of the ADs barely break even, some don't.

My point is no one is forcing the schools to use NIL or the portal. I'm sure there's a ton of players who'd play at UT without NIL, if that's what bothers you.

The players aren't FORCING NIL on the schools. The schools are offering scholarships + NIL. If they don't want to do that, I'm still sure UT could field a team.

The truth is: quality players are worth more to the schools than the scholarship alone. Period. Stop bitching about it, the schools are offering more to get better players and that's THE CHOICE OF THE SCHOOL.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

There are a few of the athletes that are able to create a brand on their own - but the majority of them are able to create a brand due to the association with a college football team. No association with a college football team = NO BRAND and NO NIL. The majority of them don't have any more of a skill set than I do. If they did, they would not need a collective to help them do that. And they would not need to risk injuries to play football to make money.

The only reason folks know about these players is because they play football at the University they follow.

For dang sure, the big SEC brands won't be noticed without high quality players either.

Few Vandy players get a lot of notice. The Vandy brand is not worth much as a result.

The GA brand has improved BECAUSE of good players.

It goes both ways.

 

[volfan102455]

They also need to put a price on the brand marketing and advertising that comes from being associated with a big name brand. These players wouldn't be worth any NIL money if they didn't put on those college jerseys and represent those teams. They only gain this perceived value when they play for the Tennessees or the Notre Dames of the sport, etc. The school brands are the actual thing of value; that is, people are invested in the performance of the teams, not the players. If it were otherwise, these supposedly put upon players would just leave school entirely and market their NIL rights on their own. If the "Jayden Daniels" brand actually had value, then he'd have no reason to put up with the wicked, evil, oppressive college football environment, right? Just leave college and go sell his brand direct to companies, without worrying about following those pesky NCAA rules.

Oh, what's that? He wouldn't make a dime you say? Huh. Fancy that. Interesting, isn't it?

It's funny how people always complain about how "the NCAA shouldn't restrict player NIL rights," when the fact is no player was ever prevented from selling their rights. A player could have done so whenever they wanted. They could march right out there and sell them today. The only thing they couldn't do was be eligible to play on college teams if they did so, for myriad reasons that are going to become more and more apparent as the sport continues on its current trajectory.

But that said, awful interesting how none of those college ever chose to do that. Awful interesting.

Repeated this because maybe it will sink in if it appears enough times.

I find it strange that folks believe that most of these players could generate NIL without being associated with something (like a college football team or an NFL team, etc.). It is that association that gives them the NIL opportunity.

There are social media influencers out there who can make a lot of money based on finding a niche that leads to lots of followers. And I applaud the ones that have done that on their own without having to be connected to organization for publicity. But that is not what is happening with NIL. NIL is available because of their connection, not because they have magically figured out how to tap into that market on their own. If they really could do that, they would not need the NCAA or the NFL for that matter.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Repeated this because maybe it will sink in if it appears enough times.

I find it strange that folks believe that most of these players could generate NIL without being associated with something (like a college football team or an NFL team, etc.). It is that association that gives them the NIL opportunity.

There are social media influencers out there who can make a lot of money based on finding a niche that leads to lots of followers. And I applaud the ones that have done that on their own without having to be connected to organization for publicity. But that is not what is happening with NIL. NIL is available because of their connection, not because they have magically figured out how to tap into that market on their own. If they really could do that, they would not need the NCAA or the NFL for that matter.

For that matter Patrick Mahomes couldn't get paid without the NFL, but there IS an NFL.

It's the same with college players. Bryce Young got rich, admittedly, because of Bama, but he would've gotten paid at any major school.

So is Mahomes at fault for getting paid "riding on the back" of the NFL? Obviously not. He's extremely talented at football and would be paid in any league. It's a silly point you're making.

 

[cgrish]

Go learn what NIL is and then you won't have so many questions. What you are stating is not how NIL works.

I do know that nil is not contingent on how well they play.

 

[cgrish]

Go learn what NIL is and then you won't have so many questions. What you are stating is not how NIL works.

Many have nil deals before they play the first down in colldge, hence that kind of nil is not tied to performance on the field

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Many have nil deals before they play the first down in colldge, hence that kind of nil is not tied to performance on the field

Peyton Manning got an $11M signing bonus before playing a down in the NFL. They'd seen him play in college.

Nico got paid based upon his play in HS.

Pretty simple, eh?

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

There are a few of the athletes that are able to create a brand on their own - but the majority of them are able to create a brand due to the association with a college football team. No association with a college football team = NO BRAND and NO NIL. The majority of them don't have any more of a skill set than I do. If they did, they would not need a collective to help them do that. And they would not need to risk injuries to play football to make money.

The only reason folks know about these players is because they play football at the University they follow.

Don't delude yourself. They have a skill set that you don't possess. One that generates high revenues unlike any other skill sets

 

[Vol Farmer]

Will it still be college football or NIL Football ?

 

[volfan102455]

Don't delude yourself. They have a skill set that you don't possess. One that generates high revenues unlike any other skill sets

Not without the help of being connected to a larger organization that can help in advertising and introducing them to millions on Saturdays. Lots of folks do that in many industries - I'm not sure why some have an issue with pointing out that this is what they are doing.

They were already getting something valuable in return by playing for and being connected to a college sports program. Just tired of folks acting like they were being treated like "broke college kids".

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Not without the help of being connected to a larger organization that can help in advertising and introducing them to millions on Saturdays. Lots of folks do that in many industries - I'm not sure why some have an issue with pointing out that this is what they are doing.

They were already getting something valuable in return by playing for and being connected to a college sports program. Just tired of folks acting like they were being treated like "broke college kids".

I know. Those players are absolutely FORCING colleges to pay NIL.

Seriously, the schools have no choice, right? They MUST pay these kids or football will die, right?

 

[cgrish]

Peyton Manning got an $11M signing bonus before playing a down in the NFL. They'd seen him play in college.

Nico got paid based upon his play in HS.

Pretty simple, eh?

No, its not. peyton would get pd by his performance on the field. If he was not able to perform he would have been cut. Would a college coach be able to do the same? Just a question. Or would the nils pressure to play the guy or no more nils from them.

 

[Freiwillige]

NIL football. Might as well be honest and admit the truth.

Revenue sports have built on a lie for years. The difference now is that the lie is so apparent that even someone who buries his head in the sand can see it.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

No, its not. peyton would get pd by his performance on the field. If he was not able to perform he would have been cut. Would a college coach be able to do the same? Just a question. Or would the nils pressure to play the guy or no more nils from them.

Peyton got 11 MILLION DOLLARS JUST TO SIGN, not to play, as a signing bonus. Nothing on the field involved, a signing bonus.

College players can have their scholarships not renewed. They are year by year. They can be dismissed for various reasons but usually they're just benched and leave. Often a kid is recruited over like Harrison Bailey and Maurer were. Bailey had, he may still have at Louisville, an NIL deal.

Schools are interested in the best product. It's about spending money to make money. They offer NIL to get better players so the team is better.

You act as though players weren't paid until NIL started. You know this isn't a new concept. Teams have paid for better players for years. Why bitch about it now?

 

[GAVol]

Repeated this because maybe it will sink in if it appears enough times.

I find it strange that folks believe that most of these players could generate NIL without being associated with something (like a college football team or an NFL team, etc.). It is that association that gives them the NIL opportunity.

There are social media influencers out there who can make a lot of money based on finding a niche that leads to lots of followers. And I applaud the ones that have done that on their own without having to be connected to organization for publicity. But that is not what is happening with NIL. NIL is available because of their connection, not because they have magically figured out how to tap into that market on their own. If they really could do that, they would not need the NCAA or the NFL for that matter.

Why does it matter? They have value and it’s illegal to restrict their ability to capitalize on it.

 

[LouderVol]

It's been too long since I've been a college student so I didn't know if they still got in free to athletic events. (outside of the fees they already pay as a student)

Who owns the rights to the Power T? The university. If the sports programs are separate from the college then why does the university own all the rights?

View attachment 601919

That's besides the point though.

My point is those are all things that are associated with Tennessee and are still being done today. The other poster was trying to say college has nothing to do with it anymore. Whether it's the educational side or the athletic side is irrelevant. The football team playing is playing for the University of Tennessee and everything is associated with the university. The decades of tradition is a part of UT and everything in the game today is still UT football. It's not "athletic association affiliated with the University of Tennessee academic institution" football.

The entire college football experience is still centered around college.

the vast majority of fans have nothing to do with the college except that its probably the largest public school in their state. how many can honestly say they are a fan of the University itself? How many have a single clue what is going on at the University outside of the sports? the reason they have any involvement with the University is because of college sports and specifically football. its not the "college" part of college sports that draws people in, its the "sports" part of college sports that draws people.

like I said if they were just fans of "college" they would be cheering for the nearest local college, no matter what level or sport they play for. they choose UT because that is the best football in the state. Otis from Ooltewah would be a UTC fan, not a UTK fan.

It wasn't the Universities prestige that made the Power T recognizable, it was the football team's prestige. It wasn't Ayres Hall that made the checkerboard famous, it was Neyland stadium. Outside of a sporting event I can't think of a single time I heard Rocky Top in the 5 years I was there, maybe at graduation.

 

[TheDeeble]

the vast majority of fans have nothing to do with the college except that its probably the largest public school in their state. how many can honestly say they are a fan of the University itself? How many have a single clue what is going on at the University outside of the sports? the reason they have any involvement with the University is because of college sports and specifically football. its not the "college" part of college sports that draws people in, its the "sports" part of college sports that draws people.

like I said if they were just fans of "college" they would be cheering for the nearest local college, no matter what level or sport they play for. they choose UT because that is the best football in the state. Otis from Ooltewah would be a UTC fan, not a UTK fan.

It wasn't the Universities prestige that made the Power T recognizable, it was the football team's prestige. It wasn't Ayres Hall that made the checkerboard famous, it was Neyland stadium. Outside of a sporting event I can't think of a single time I heard Rocky Top in the 5 years I was there, maybe at graduation.

I think you're reading too much into what I'm saying. Of course college sports are about sports and not going to class, what the buildings look like, the majors offered at that university or non athletic events happening on campus.

But college "sports " are associated with the college. It's student athletes. It's on campus. It's years of tradition that the college has been associated with. That "brand" is what the people making money don't want to lose.

 

[TheDeeble]

Sure instituting stricter transfer rules is within the NCAAs rights but is it right? IMO since most athletic scholarships are year to year after an athlete completes that year they have fulfilled their obligation and should be allowed to leave without penalty.

Yea, I might be wrong. It might not be in the NCAA hands anymore. It sounds like transfers will likely play immediately even if they're on a 2nd transfer. I heard about this court ruling yesterday on the way home from work. If the court can change policy on transfer eligibility, they very well may be able to overrule the NCAA on when/how a player can transfer also.

NCAA’s Transfer Rule on Hold as Judge Rules in Favor of Yost, Others in Antitrust Case - Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost

www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov