This is not normal: Trump's tweet storm

#453
#453
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#458
#458
37L1 said:
The Fourth Amendment and what was released.

Any warrant requires that the affiant swear before the magistrate to the truth of the facts within the affidavit under pain of perjury. Since the dossier was not vetted how could the affiant swear to it's truthfulness? I'm pretty sure that the FISA court would frown upon being presented with made up sh!t paid for by the opposition party and not being made aware of it. Particularly with those being responsible for writing the warrant in the first place knew it was unvetted and paid for by the DNC/Clinton campaign.

Probable cause will not lie unless the facts supporting the warrant are sworn by the officer as true to the best of their knowledge. The officer's oath can be written or oral, but the officer must typically swear that no knowing or intentionally false statement has been submitted in support of the warrant and that no statement has been made in reckless disregard of the truth.

Really, really stupid. Particularly for those who have related that the Steele Dossier and related news articles (yahoo/Isikoff) only played a small part in obtaining the warrant. If so, why risk perjuring yourself?

DOJ and FBI falsely attested to the FISA court not once, not twice, not thrice, but four separate times that Steele was not the source of Isikoff's September 23 article, which DOJ used to corroborate claims from Steele's dossier. In fact, Steele was the only source.

But others say it was vital and probably wouldn't have gotten the warrant without it. What was released was so heavily redacted that no one outside of the insiders that have seen the whole thing, knows.

This doesn't pass the remedial smell test.

Oh, has Carter Page, the target of this warrant, been indicted/charged with any crime yet?

10 pieces of evidence against most diabolical Russian spy ever
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Franks v. Delaware, 438 US 154 - Supreme Court 1978 - Google Scholar

The deliberate falsity or reckless disregard whose impeachment is permitted today is only that of the affiant, not of any nongovernmental informant.

Colorado v. Nunez, 465 US 324 - Supreme Court 1984 - Google Scholar

“We have, to be sure, recently concluded that the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments entitle a defendant to a veracity *327 hearing if he makes a substantial preliminary showing that an affiant knowingly and intentionally, or with reckless disregard for the truth, included in a warrant affidavit a false statement necessary to the finding of probable cause. Franks v. Delaware, 438 U. S. 154 (1978). But in so doing we emphasized that "[t]he deliberate falsity or reckless disregard whose impeachment is permitted today is only that of the affiant, not of any nongovernmental informant." Id., at 171.
 
#459
#459
luthervol said:
I get your point and sort of agree. Government is what steps in when people fail.
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Everything I’m saying is assuming no government. I assume the town has a government but that the dude dumping chemicals is not part of it.

I agree that government should be the last option but what I’m saying is that good government is about finding the balance between keeping the chemicals out of a town’s water supply while still allowing dude to do whatever he’s doing to produce the chemicals, whenever possible. Good government maximizes positive outcomes.
 
#460
#460
RockyTop85 said:
Franks v. Delaware, 438 US 154 - Supreme Court 1978 - Google Scholar

The deliberate falsity or reckless disregard whose impeachment is permitted today is only that of the affiant, not of any nongovernmental informant.

Colorado v. Nunez, 465 US 324 - Supreme Court 1984 - Google Scholar

“We have, to be sure, recently concluded that the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments entitle a defendant to a veracity *327 hearing if he makes a substantial preliminary showing that an affiant knowingly and intentionally, or with reckless disregard for the truth, included in a warrant affidavit a false statement necessary to the finding of probable cause. Franks v. Delaware, 438 U. S. 154 (1978). But in so doing we emphasized that "[t]he deliberate falsity or reckless disregard whose impeachment is permitted today is only that of the affiant, not of any nongovernmental informant." Id., at 171.
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So? It is on the affiant. I didn't raise that as an issue, are you? What I questioned was the reliance on unvetted documentation being sworn to as being true. I never brought up the issue of the culpability of a nongovernmental informant.
 
#461
#461
I'm confused by why more of the right wingers here don't seem concerned with Trump's behavior patterns. They're not normal. They're not productive. They're not healthy.

If you had an older adult relative behaving in such a way, you'd likely do the responsible thing and steer them towards dementia or Alzheimer's screening. You'd also find ways to steer them away from media that triggers or exacerbates the negative behavior.

Instead, there's what appears to be an unhealthy amount of protection (bordering in some cases on veneration) and reveling in the behavior. That's not good. Not for anyone.
 
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#462
#462
BigOrangeTrain said:
He is fine. He just continues to rustle your and other dems jimmies because of his unorthodox style. But its definitely something you should be concerned about lol.
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Attacking a deceased man is now an "Unorthodox style?"

Megan McCain is right and Don knows it. He'll never measure up and it gnaws at him.
 
#463
#463
Septic said:
Attacking a deceased man is now an "Unorthodox style?"

Megan McCain is right and Don knows it. He'll never measure up and it gnaws at him.
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For the life of me, I don't get it. I was no fan of McCain and I think the Steele Dossier and healthcare vote were vindictive BS.... but publicly calling out a dead man just months after his death is just weird.
 
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#464
#464
Septic said:
Attacking a deceased man is now an "Unorthodox style?"

Megan McCain is right and Don knows it. He'll never measure up and it gnaws at him.
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He's spent his entire life overcompensating for his insecurities and that little thing Stormy mentioned.
 
#465
#465
AshG said:
I'm confused by why more of the right wingers here don't seem concerned with Trump's behavior patterns. They're not normal. They're not productive. They're not healthy.

If you had an older adult relative behaving in such a way, you'd likely do the responsible thing and steer them towards dementia or Alzheimer's screening. You'd also find ways to steer them away from media that triggers or exacerbates the negative behavior.

Instead, there's what appears to be an unhealthy amount of protection (bordering in some cases on veneration) and reveling in the behavior. That's not good. Not for anyone.
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Politics has driven everybody to a point where they're ignoring everything in the name of political positioning. Trump is a moral disaster. Democratic Presidential candidates have arrest records. Yet nobody cares if the politics line up. It's an awful place to be.
 
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#467
#467
AshG said:
I'm confused by why more of the right wingers here don't seem concerned with Trump's behavior patterns. They're not normal. They're not productive. They're not healthy.

If you had an older adult relative behaving in such a way, you'd likely do the responsible thing and steer them towards dementia or Alzheimer's screening. You'd also find ways to steer them away from media that triggers or exacerbates the negative behavior.

Instead, there's what appears to be an unhealthy amount of protection (bordering in some cases on veneration) and reveling in the behavior. That's not good. Not for anyone.
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DIMs should never ever talk about someone else's behavior. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.
 
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#470
#470
BigOrangeD said:
DIMs should never ever talk about someone else's behavior. It's like the pot calling the kettle black.
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lol...there has never been anything like Trump. He's the new standard, one which we will never again approach.
 
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