This makes me wanna vomit (So help me God, it turned into a climate debate)

#53
#53
KB5252 said:
I am by no means an expert but the way I understand it is that humans would be responsible for less than one degree in average temperature rise on the planet. Is this correct or am I wrong here?
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If you mean warming to date, then yes - the IPCC fourth assessment report stated that warming over the last 100 years has contributed to a temperature increase of 0.74 degrees C, which is about 1.4 degrees F (I'm not sure if this is total warming, or the average anthropogenic effect as determined through modeling efforts). The predictions of temperature rise up to 2100 range from about 1.5 to 6 degrees C.
 
#54
#54
TreeGreen said:
Glaciers are supposed to melt, but they are not supposed to disappear. They should be in a state of equilibrium where snow fall keeps them at a constant rate. If the earth warms, then snowfall decreases and they melt considerably faster than they should. That may be the point to elaborate on is the speed with which they have been melting since about 1850.
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I'm no glacial scientist...but I would think that if by equilibrium, you mean...

that snow fall adds to glaciers as melting water takes away such that their size doesn't change...

then everything we think we know about glacial dynamics over the last few million years must be very, very wrong. Am I misunderstanding you?
 
#55
#55
TennTradition said:
If you mean warming to date, then yes - the IPCC fourth assessment report stated that warming over the last 100 years has contributed to a temperature increase of 0.74 degrees C, which is about 1.4 degrees F (I'm not sure if this is total warming, or the average anthropogenic effect as determined through modeling efforts). The predictions of temperature rise up to 2100 range from about 1.5 to 6 degrees C.
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But how much of this can be attributed to man?
 
#56
#56
KB5252 said:
I see, but my point is that since it evident that earth has been going through a warming trend (of which only a very small fraction can be blamed on man) wouldn't they have melted either at this rate or a rate very close to the one we are seeing now?
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Yes...though climate is non-linear, so it's hard to say that 10% less temperature rise would have resulted in 10% less glacial melting....
 
#58
#58
KB5252 said:
But how much of this can be attributed to man?
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Yeah..that's why I put that comment in parentheses...in the summary for policy makers, the IPCC very clearly stated what the estimated man-induced solar radiative forcing (increase in the sun's energy effectively reaching the earth). However, I didn't find it as clearly stated about temperature. I've seen it cut out somewhere...but I can't remember where, probably in my binder in my office. You're certainly asking the right questions...the sun warms..man may enhance that warming..the question is how much to date...I'll see if I can find something....
 
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#59
#59
TennTradition said:
Yeah..that's why I put that comment in parentheses...in the summary for policy makers, the IPCC very clearly stated what the estimated man-induced solar radiative forcing (increase in the sun's energy reaching effectively the earth). However, I didn't find it as clearly stated about temperature. I've seen it cut out somewhere...but I can't remember where, probably in my binder in my office. You're certainly asking the right questions...the sun warms..man may enhance that warming..the question is how much to date...I'll see if I can find something....
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Please tell me you look like this...

frink.gif
 
#63
#63
TennTradition said:
Yeah..that's why I put that comment in parentheses...in the summary for policy makers, the IPCC very clearly stated what the estimated man-induced solar radiative forcing (increase in the sun's energy reaching effectively the earth). However, I didn't find it as clearly stated about temperature. I've seen it cut out somewhere...but I can't remember where, probably in my binder in my office. You're certainly asking the right questions...the sun warms..man may enhance that warming..the question is how much to date...I'll see if I can find something....
Click to expand...

This is where the rubber hits the road IMO. We need to get the political agendas (as well as personal) out of the mix. Find the numbers that work (as best we can) and find the right actions to take.

Too many of the alarmists want to put limits on everything. We need to find the most effective approach, both for the climate and economy, that way we can remain productive and keep our economy growing while helping the environment.
 
#64
#64
TreeGreen said:
:scare:

It's as good of a place to look as any. They are simply restating the IPCC in a nutshell.
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Of course they have to repeat it..... it is the US government...

Any one want to take my challenge of finding a government agency that is 20% effective?
 
#65
#65
KB5252 said:
This is where the rubber hits the road IMO. We need to get the political agendas (as well as personal) out of the mix. Find the numbers that work (as best we can) and find the right actions to take.

Too many of the alarmists want to put limits on everything. We need to find the most effective approach, both for the climate and economy, that way we can remain productive and keep our economy growing while helping the environment.
Click to expand...

:hi:
 
#68
#68
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