This makes me wanna vomit (So help me God, it turned into a climate debate)

[emainvol]

true enough. I like it here very much. Thanks hippies and liberal f@#*s.

You're welcome. I'll have something from New Belgium later and toast to you.

 

[emainvol]

Off topic but still on the subject of beer, kev have you ever been to Phantom Canyon in Colorado Springs? I will be out that way in March, hopefully, and I was told to try to place out.

 

[dantheman617]

thank you to the mod who changed the thread title. I started it last week, and it somehow turned into a heated global warming debate after someone said the name "Al Gore"

 

[kev20]

Off topic but still on the subject of beer, kev have you ever been to Phantom Canyon in Colorado Springs? I will be out that way in March, hopefully, and I was told to try to place out.

never been, but have heard that it is quite the hot spot in the Springs. I've only driven through the Springs also. Never spent any real time there.

 

[kev20]

You're welcome. I'll have something from New Belgium later and toast to you.

Fat Tire, I pressume? Skinny Dip?
They have a cool thing going on over there. That is a very good tour to go on. Pretty neat how they run their operation.
Even saw Fat Tire on a Gary Unmarried episode. They called it a Belgian beer though.

 

[hndog609]

Fat Tire, I pressume? Skinny Dip?
They have a cool thing going on over there. That is a very good tour to go on. Pretty neat how they run their operation.
Even saw Fat Tire on a Gary Unmarried episode. They called it a Belgian beer though.

Don't know if you've tried the Brazilian brew Xingu yet? Expensive but I liked it quite a bit.

This threads flown off tagent enough I don't even feel guilty being OT.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Don't know if you've tried the Brazilian yet? Expensive but I liked it quite a bit.

I'm gonna leave the Brazilians to the women folk.

 

[hndog609]

I'm gonna leave the Brazilians to the women folk.

Well, I'll drink most any of it, but I found it interesting that something that dark (essentially black) could be that smooth.

This time of year I'm into scotch as much as anything. Cold does that to me for some reason.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Well, I'll drink most any of it, but I found it interesting that something that dark (essentially black) could be that smooth.

This time of year I'm into scotch as much as anything. Cold does that to me for some reason.

fair enough, but I think you missed my apparently weak joke.

 

[hndog609]

fair enough, but I think you missed my apparently weak joke.

Nah, I got it, just didn't really have enough left in the tank after a long work day to do something interesting with it.

Now, if I'd had some of the aforementioned scotch in me...

 

[MG1968]

At this point I think option 2 is going to be necessary regardless because we are draining our aquifers faster than they can replenish. It's just one of those really expensive technologies that at some point we'll probably have to bite the bullet on.

you do realize that the distillation plant onboard a Nimitz class aircraft carrier is capable of producing 400 thousand gallons of fresh water per day?

the technology is there. what will make it prohibitively expensive is the enviro-nazi movement that will protest any construction of desalinization plants.

 

[TennTradition]

you do realize that the distillation plant onboard a Nimitz class aircraft carrier is capable of producing 400 thousand gallons of fresh water per day?

the technology is there. what will make it prohibitively expensive is the enviro-nazi movement that will protest any construction of desalinization plants.

There's no doubt that the technology is there...and we'll probably see more of it...but the original point stands that the cost is very high. I have no idea how much that would come down as you build more. I don't know how accurate this website is...but there are some cost numbers at the bottom...

Seawater Desalination CHAPTER ONE

 

[therealUT]

The AGW theory is based on data that is drawn from a ridiculously narrow span of time and it demonstrates a wanton disregard for the ‘big picture’ of long-term climate change. The data from paleoclimatology, including ice cores, sea sediments, geology, paleobotany and zoology, indicate that we are on the verge of entering another Ice Age, and the data also shows that severe and lasting climate change can occur within only a few years. While concern over the dubious threat of Anthropogenic Global Warming continues to distract the attention of people throughout the world, the very real threat of the approaching and inevitable Ice Age, which will render large parts of the Northern Hemisphere uninhabitable, is being foolishly ignored.

Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age - Pravda.Ru

Anything to this article, TennTradition? I found it a pretty interesting read, yet, not nearly scientific enough to convince me of anything (is that graph correct? )

 

[TennTradition]

Anything to this article, TennTradition? I found it a pretty interesting read, yet, not nearly scientific enough to convince me of anything (is that graph correct? )

I find this article interesting because most of the facts it presents seem OK...but the conclusions are a bit odd to me. The figure that is linked to is accurate to the extent that we can track interglacial temperatures, CO2 levels, etc. And, the author correctly points out the cause for these responses - that is, as the ocean warms, it releases portions of its large stores of CO2.

The author acts as if this is the 800 lb. gorilla in the room, but climate scientists will very openly talk about the ice core record and data such as that presented here. To some extent, the data is used apparently, because I once asked a climate modeler about the lagging CO2 responses and he indicated that CO2 concentrations are increasing faster than they would from ocean temperature rise alone. This is one of the positive feedbacks that climate scientists consider in their models - as man adds CO2 to the atmosphere, this causes some warming, which releases more CO2, which causes some more warming, etc....this positive feedback leads to more warming than would have otherwise been experienced.

I think that the article is wrong when it says that CO2 levels were higher 325,000 years ago. I think that levels were about 299 ppm then, and we are well past that now...by almost 100 ppm. I think that the article is correct about temperature....I think it is believed temperatures were once higher.

We will eventually enter another ice age of course - and, we are on the right side of the temperature record to be approaching on rather than leaving one. However, my problem with the article is one of time scales. Sure, we are going to have to face a coming ice age....and temperatures are going to drop some over the next 50,000 years. I would think that it is safe to say that climate scientists are more worried with warming over the next 500 to 1000 years. Yes, this is a ridiculously small time span to be worried about on geologic time scales. But, the author needs to take a step back and think about just how long 1000 years is with respect to human lifetime. A few thousand years isn't that long wrt to ice ages...but it sure doesn't feel like Christ was born to Mary just yesterday to me.

So, if man is still around to care about it, we might have to fight off an ice age over the next 10,000 to 50,000 years....in that, the author is correct, IMO. It just seems to me that there are flaws in the logic used at times.

 

[volinbham]

First a rant, then a useful post.

The Rant: I watched a show on the History Channel about the 7 ways the Earth might end - usual suspects (nukes, germs, astroids, etc.)

#1 was Global Warming. Okay. The scientists interviewed (and Al Gore) basically said there is zero debate about GW and man's role. They said there are only about a dozen or less real scientists that dispute this. They equated anyone who doesn't buy into this to Holocaust deniers and they indicated that virtually all opposition is from pseudo-scientists bought by the oil companies.

Seriously? Can't we at least let one dissenting voice be heard? If not, do you have to completely ridicule and demonize anyone scientists that don't agree? The analogy they used was the tobacco industry claiming nicotine is not addictive.

[rant/]

 

[volinbham]

Now of the useful (perhaps) post.

As part of a Business Plan competition I'm involved with, we awarded a guy from U. Alabama $50K to develop a home desalination product. His first units are in production and it's cheap, scalable and pretty effective. He's come up with some panels that you can use on the roof for example to collect and purify rainwater but it works for salt water too.

 

[TennTradition]

Now of the useful (perhaps) post.

As part of a Business Plan competition I'm involved with, we awarded a guy from U. Alabama $50K to develop a home desalination product. His first units are in production and it's cheap, scalable and pretty effective. He's come up with some panels that you can use on the roof for example to collect and purify rainwater but it works for salt water too.

I would think that the materials of construction would have to be quite different for the two...with the rainwater purification requiring less durable materials...does the cost of the unit go up a lot?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

How was your trip TT?

 

[TennTradition]

How was your trip TT?

Ahh...still on it, actually. The trip here was good...very good meetings today. We're part of an all-day seminar tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes - though apparently the entire Chemical Engineering department (well, PhD and Masters students, that is, not undergrads) is coming to it...so at least we'll have a good audience. I'm working on finishing up the presentation right now before I pass out for the evening. Weather isn't too bad here, just icy from last week's bad weather. Had a nice meal tonight with lots of fish....which they really know how to cook over here.

Thanks for asking...:hi:

 

[volinbham]

I would think that the materials of construction would have to be quite different for the two...with the rainwater purification requiring less durable materials...does the cost of the unit go up a lot?

I don't have the details in front of me - I'll see what I can dig up but basically, it's the same unit for both purposes.

 

[TennTradition]

I don't have the details in front of me - I'll see what I can dig up but basically, it's the same unit for both purposes.

I could be off base....I haven't done process design stuff for several years now...losing my touch .

Edit: PS...unrelated...but relevant to the politics forum...I'm watching a BBC World News interview with a representative of the Palestinian government right now...I have to say, extremely good...she's raking him over the calls...and I get the feeling she would do the same if she were interviewing an Israeli. The show is Hard Talk...so I guess that is why she's not letting him off easily, but it isn't crap...she's asking good questions and allowing him to talk...not just going off to hear herself. I don't watch BBC when I'm in the States...is anyone else familiar with the show?

 

[volinbham]

I could be off base....I haven't done process design stuff for several years now...losing my touch .

Here's a brief description:

The Solar Evaporation Array is a sun-powered desalination technology that removes salt from seawater or high mineral concentrations from ground water. It has a low-environmental impact, since it does not eject brine-water, and is made from remanufactured plastic water and soda bottles. The company plans to manufacture and sell this array system in third-world markets and to homeowners and businesses in coastal areas for irrigation and drinking water.

And link to his presentation at the competition:

Alabama Launchpad - Video

Ignore the part where it says "Part 4 on the first video" that is part one.

 

[vader]

First a rant, then a useful post.

The Rant: I watched a show on the History Channel about the 7 ways the Earth might end - usual suspects (nukes, germs, astroids, etc.)

#1 was Global Warming. Okay. The scientists interviewed (and Al Gore) basically said there is zero debate about GW and man's role. They said there are only about a dozen or less real scientists that dispute this. They equated anyone who doesn't buy into this to Holocaust deniers and they indicated that virtually all opposition is from pseudo-scientists bought by the oil companies.

Seriously? Can't we at least let one dissenting voice be heard? If not, do you have to completely ridicule and demonize anyone scientists that don't agree? The analogy they used was the tobacco industry claiming nicotine is not addictive.

[rant/]

I saw that this weekend. I had a feeling that it would spark the ire of volnation.

 

[TennTradition]

I saw that this weekend. I had a feeling that it would spark the ire of volnation.

I think that it is true that there are very, very few climate scientists that dispute it. You can make arguments as to why that is, but I understand that to be the case. I obviously don't know it...but in talking to the climate scientists I do know...they say that is the case....and they know their field.

As for making deniers out to be something like Holocaust deniers...if they say that, then that is obviously a completely ridiculous statement. If they are disparaging them (and people make it out to be how people treat Holocaust deniers, that's one thing)...but to say it is completely wrong. The two types of "denial" or rather...disagreement with the prevailing winds....are completely different (as I'm sure most here would agree).