Thoughts on Olivier Nkamhoua?

[BruinVol]

The staff would have to allow that...you said similarly about Kent, he’s not on the roster...you are well aware that if the staff wants the room they’ll make it.

And according to you the transfer rule was a slam dunk to happen this year, and while that isn’t the case it’s almost a forgone conclusion to happen next year. And also not really Tennessee’s concern.

Kent was here too long.

My stance has always been if a kid isn’t in the rotation after year 2 it’s time to go

 

[BruinVol]

Kelly Olynyk for Gonzaga.

I think some people really don't understand how strict the roles Coach Barnes gives young players (especially point guards) are. If you've played a certain way and thought a certain way on the court for most of your high level career and then you're told not to do that, it usually doesn't change in just 1 year. None of the guys have that transcendent talent that KD had where Barnes gave him a green light and built the system to feature him. These guys are brought it to be a part of the engine instead of the entire engine on this team. It's tough. Give him time to fill out, develop into his role and then let's see what he's capable of. Redshirt or not next year, I think he'll be a very good career player here at UT.

that’s a good find. I was sure there had to be someone out there. The interesting part of that is he played his first two years and then RSed.

 

[cncchris33]

Pons and Fulky were less than impressive as sophomores. Alexander is an example of a kid I wished could have redshirted as a freshman/sophmore because he developed into a really nice player for us as a Jr/Sr. One thing about Barnes that is hard to argue is that players have developed well under him.

Those willing to put in the work have improved. Those who weren't, got shipped out.

 

[BruinVol]

Those willing to put in the work have improved. Those who weren't, got shipped out.

Not sure Im willing to say all those that left wouldn’t work. I don’t think that’s fair. They could have just sucked

 

[LeannaVol]

Pons and fulky played as sophomores and that’s the point

Would Pons and Fulky have played as sophomores on the 2020-2021 version of the vols? I don't think they would too much and that is the standard you are holding ORN to. There's really no way to know how ORN will turn out but to wait a few years. He could be a Kent or he could be an Admiral. I just think he has shown enough to be willing to give him some more time and Barnes has shown the ability to get more out of players that stick around.

 

[BruinVol]

Would Pons and Fulky have played as sophomores on the 2020-2021 version of the vols? I don't think they would too much and that is the standard you are holding ORN to. There's really no way to know how ORN will turn out but to wait a few years. He could be a Kent or he could be an Admiral. I just think he has shown enough to be willing to give him some more time and Barnes has shown the ability to get more out of players that stick around.

My belief is you have to play to develop. It’s much more difficult to develop sitting on the bench. I’d point to uros as an example to make my point

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Kent was here too long.

My stance has always been if a kid isn’t in the rotation after year 2 it’s time to go

Wow. You really want to see the list of guys around the country who weren't in the main 7-8 man rotation (meaning there were games they DNP) after their 2nd year and became very good players?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

My belief is you have to play to develop. It’s much more difficult to develop sitting on the bench. I’d point to uros as an example to make my point

So guys who sit as freshman whether it’s due to academic, or depth chart, or needing to add strength don’t develop at all?

 

[pricevol5]

I can’t think of a single player that redshirted due to “lack of skill” after playing a year and that player come back and contributed for any team any where. Now surely there are a few out there so maybe you can share some success stories of players that RS for such reasons and came back and were good players. I just don’t think there are many if at all.

Tariq Owens is a kid that could somewhat fit the description. Granted, he RS due to a transfer, but it was ultra-beneficial in his development after being overmatched as a true frosh. In the end was a key player on a team playing for a National Championship.

 

[LeannaVol]

My belief is you have to play to develop. It’s much more difficult to develop sitting on the bench. I’d point to uros as an example to make my point

Fair enough. I tend to think players can improve and develop during a redshirt year, especially big guys that have athleticism but may be a little raw. A lot of it probably comes down to having a staff willing to put in time to help them develop and the players willingness to do the work. .

 

[BruinVol]

Wow. You really want to see the list of guys around the country who weren't in the main 7-8 man rotation (meaning there were games they DNP) after their 2nd year and became very good players?

Yea I want to see a list of guys that didn’t average 10min a game in year 2 that turned out good
it won’t be a long list

 

[JelloPuddinPup]

that’s a good find. I was sure there had to be someone out there. The interesting part of that is he played his first two years and then RSed.

He's an interesting case study. I remember they specifically did it to improve his strength and hand/eye coordination. There was a piece on him, I think on ESPN when he was a RSJr and having his breakout year. It was pretty good. I agree that there aren't many situations like his out there that reached such success post-redshirt.

I'd be for him redshirting just so as not to lose a year of his playing time being sub-10 mins. I think he'll be fine and develop just fine as well. He'd benefit mostly from a physical standpoint but I think he can and will have a long career at UT. Hope I'm right.

 

[cncchris33]

Not sure Im willing to say all those that left wouldn’t work. I don’t think that’s fair. They could have just sucked

I didn’t say that everyone who got shipped out, wouldn’t work to get better. I said those that wouldn’t work to get better, got shipped out. The two ideas aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[cncchris33]

Yea I want to see a list of guys that didn’t average 10min a game in year 2 that turned out good
it won’t be a long list

Look no further than John Fulkerson. He’d come with an asterisk because of him returning from injury, perhaps, but he looked really out of place even two years removed from injury as a rSO, only to become an All-SEC player as a rJR.

 

[BruinVol]

Look no further than John Fulkerson. He’d come with an asterisk because of him returning from injury, perhaps, but he looked really out of place even two years removed from injury as a rSO, only to become an All-SEC player as a rJR.

As you say Fulky doesn’t fit the mold of my discussion which was not playing due to skills. The injury was the reason as he was playing well over 10min before the injury.

 

[cncchris33]

As you say Fulky doesn’t fit the mold of my discussion duets not playing due to skills. The injury was the reason as he was playing well over 10min before the injury.

Not entirely. He wasn’t the same player after coming back from injury, but he was back and played in 30 of a possible 35 games the next year, and in all 36 the year after. He just wasn’t playing really well, at all. I honestly wondered if he might transfer, at that point.

I might chalk the first year up to regaining form from injury, but the second year back, he just flat out wasn’t any good, and he had better players playing in front of him. Even guys in and around his own class that just passed him up.

People sometimes want to pretend that Fulk was a world beater as a true freshman, and he showed flashes, but in a small sample size (10 games) where he only averaged 16 mpg and 4.7 ppg and 4.6 rpg. Pretty good numbers for an unheralded freshman, but he wasn’t carrying his team, either.

 

[BruinVol]

Not entirely. He wasn’t the same player after coming back from injury, but he was back and played in 30 of a possible 35 games the next year, and in all 36 the year after. He just wasn’t playing really well, at all. I honestly wondered if he might transfer, at that point.

I might chalk the first year up to regaining form from injury, but the second year back, he just flat out wasn’t any good, and he had better players playing in front of him. Even guys in and around his own class that just passed him up.

People sometimes want to pretend that Fulk was a world beater as a true freshman, and he showed flashes, but in a small sample size (10 games) where he only averaged 16 mpg and 4.7 ppg and 4.6 rpg. Pretty good numbers for an unheralded freshman, but he wasn’t carrying his team, either.

Sure all that is true but we all know it was due to the injury.

the discussion here about Olivier is he’s already been recruited over and won’t get on the floor this season due to his skill level. An injury isn’t even in the discussion so he and Fulky aren’t even comparable imo

 

[BruinVol]

I might chalk the first year up to regaining form from injury, but the second year back, he just flat out wasn’t any good, and he had better players playing in front of him

I think this is a good point and the kind of year I am hoping for Olivier this year. Even though Fulky “flat out wasn’t good” he was still in the rotation that year you are talking about. Without being in the rotation I see little chance he gets to where he is now

 

[cncchris33]

I think this is a good point and the kind of year I am hoping for Olivier this year. Even though Fulky “flat out wasn’t good” he was still in the rotation that year you are talking about. Without being in the rotation I see little chance he gets to where he is now

I think that’s fair. But just to be clear, are you saying you will have hope for Nkamhoua in 21-22 if he averages 3 ppg, 2.5 rpg across 12 mpg as a SO? It would seem unlikely that he would then parlay that into a role of a starter and serious contributor like Fulk did, but I guess lightning could strike twice, perhaps.

 

[BruinVol]

I think that’s fair. But just to be clear, are you saying you will have hope for Nkamhoua in 21-22 if he averages 3 ppg, 2.5 rpg across 12 mpg as a SO? It would seem unlikely that he would then parlay that into a role of a starter and serious contributor like Fulk did, but I guess lightning could strike twice, perhaps.

Yes I will have hope if he does that but I don’t have all sec type goals for him either. If he can be a 20min a guy that gives is 8and 8 at any point that would be great imo

 

[cncchris33]

Yes I will have hope if he does that but I don’t have all sec type goals for him either. If he can be a 20min a guy that gives is 8and 8 at any point that would be great imo

Agreed, but only because I was pretty vocal about us not taking him to begin with. I was never very impressed with him as a player last spring when we pursued. So if he ever becomes an 8 and 8 guy, I will be pleased.

 

[BruinVol]

Agreed, but only because I was pretty vocal about us not taking him to begin with. I was never very impressed with him as a player last spring when we pursued. So if he ever becomes an 8 and 8 guy, I will be pleased.

And the chances of that happening goes way way down if he isn’t in the rotation this year To restate my stance

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Yea I want to see a list of guys that didn’t average 10min a game in year 2 that turned out good
it won’t be a long list

Just sticking to Tennessee, as sophomores/seniors...

Jordan Howell 7.8mpg/18mpg
Kenny Hall 7mpg/20mpg
Skylar Mcbee 12mpg/25mpg
Armani Moore 13mpg/33mpg
Derek Reese 11mpg/20mpg
John Fulkerson 9mpg in Yr.2, 12mpg as soph/30mpg as senior
Yves Pons 12mpg/34mpg



ORN averaged 11.4mpg last season

 

[BruinVol]

Just sticking to Tennessee, as sophomores/seniors...

Jordan Howell 7.8mpg/18mpg
Kenny Hall 7mpg/20mpg
Skylar Mcbee 12mpg/25mpg
Armani Moore 13mpg/33mpg
Derek Reese 11mpg/20mpg
John Fulkerson 9mpg in Yr.2, 12mpg as soph/30mpg as senior
Yves Pons 12mpg/34mpg



ORN averaged 11.4mpg last season

well you gave me two names that fit my criteria.
Hall and Howell are far from success stories
so you yea so far that list is very short

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

One other thing that I think about Olivier. He might be a junior or a senior before I'll ever manage to spell or pronounce his last name. "ORN" or "O(R)N" will be my go to for a long while yet.