Thoughts on the hire of Kim Caldwell

[chuckiepoo]

Only issue is that we got the same amount of uncertainty in a new blonde package.

 

[Christian Lowe]

I know. I don:t expect either clause to have any relevance next year. I hope she'll have a good first season and lay the groundwork. Big learning curve.

Funny, though. All those wanting to cut ties with the LV past and "legacy" shouldn't be concerned with relics of the past such as "the Tournament Streak." It's a new day, and a new dawn....
.

Those two things don’t correlate and you know they don’t.

Just because Alabama hired outside of Saban’s tree doesn’t mean his records and achievements aren’t to be preserved. Same thing.

 

[Vol_guy]

Will there be a press conference?

 

[livefaith]

Well, here we are!
Kellie deserved at least one more season with increased NIL and decreased injuries. I will always wish her much success and appreciate everything she did for UT as a player and coach.

We have a new coach now and I will be 100% behind her. I hope she values and takes care of our current Lady Vol’s as they are a great group of young women. She will definitely need help recruiting at this level so I hope she retains Sam and Joy and I hope the reports of increased NIL are correct.

I know Coach Caldwell will give lip service to honoring Pat and the Lady Vol traditions and legacy. She really needs to understand our history and make sure the LVFLs are still active participants in the program. The support of Tamika, Candace, Draya, Jordan and even Rickea could really help her in the short and long term.

We as LV fans need to welcome our new coach and continue to support our program with dollars and attendance. I know I will do my best to get up to Knoxville for a couple of games this year.

Finally I will eagerly await the day when DW is no longer our AD.

I hope your eagerness gets renewed year after year for decades to come.

 

[turbovol]

StoernerFumbles fumbled this one, eh? Didn't he strongly suggest we were getting a "big fish"?

 

[livefaith]

We haven’t had a proven winner at “our level” for the last 12 seasons.

Nailed it.

 

[livefaith]

We exchanged our Walmart coach for a Dollar Tree coach....

How do you figure a mediocre results coach being exchanged for an absolute winner as being a downgrade. Is Marshal as an instant turnaround winner not as prestigious as SW Mo State where slightly above average reigned?

 

[creekdipper]

Those two things don’t correlate and you know they don’t.

Just because Alabama hired outside of Saban’s tree doesn’t mean his records and achievements aren’t to be preserved. Same thing.

No, some posters were adamant that the new hire had to be outside the family. Just as some said they couldn't have spouses on staff. Others wanted age limits or other restrictions (including proven, extended success at P-5 level).

And there was a contingent saying that we couldn't be so concerned with preserving the legacy and living in the past that we would be afraid to try new things. Ideally, we'd want to immediately be competing for championships. But making a risky move might require losing some battles in order to win the war. And that includes putting the tournament streak on the line while adapting to new style of play and getting recruiting reinvigorated.

 

[ThatVolGuy]

Will there be a press conference?

Yep—you can watch it on YouTube here tomorrow at 2 PM ET.

 

[creekdipper]

How do you figure a mediocre results coach being exchanged for an absolute winner as being a downgrade. Is Marshal as an instant turnaround winner not as prestigious as SW Mo State where slightly above average reigned?

Marshall was 17-14 the year before Kim arrived. She cut the losses to 7 and added 8 wins. Nice work and deserves much credit, but not earth-shattering, either. It's not like taking a three-win team and improving to 20 wins. Marshall had a winning season the year before, so they weren't horrible.

 

[livefaith]

Bash DW all you want. He's won two straight SEC allsports trophies. Football has won won 20 games in that t same span. Men's basketball, baseball, and softball are elite.

Some Kellie-apologist wishes he was gone. Probably one of the top 3 ADs in the country. Just................ crazy.

It's the hand wringers that wish Holly were here and descended into not making the NCAAT, or CKH had stayed another year or two to take us there. Their pizzed @ our AD because he didn't allow a 3rd disaster in a row to fondle their feelings. That's all.

 

[Christian Lowe]

No, some posters were adamant that the new hire had to be outside the family. Just as some said they couldn't have spouses on staff. Others wanted age limits or other restrictions (including proven, extended success at P-5 level).

And there was a contingent saying that we couldn't be so concerned with preserving the legacy and living in the past that we would be afraid to try new things. Ideally, we'd want to immediately be competing for championships. But making a risky move might require losing some battles in order to win the war. And that includes putting the tournament streak on the line while adapting to new style of play and getting recruiting reinvigorated.

They’re right. I can think of almost no examples of Dynasty level franchises and programs in the pros or college deciding to “keep it in the family” for their successors and it working out. And It hasn’t worked here.


still has nothing to do with wanting to maintain the dynasty, or preserving its legacy. Places that have gone the route we have with Pat’s successors almost universally destroy their dynasty and legacy far worse than if they were to just hire the best man for the job whether or not they’re “family.”

 

[livefaith]

Marshall was 17-14 the year before Kim arrived. She cut the losses to 7 and added 8 wins. Nice

But but she's not from Pat's tree. We'd rather keep losing with yet another mediocre hire. Maybe the 3rd time, we could miss the NCAAT completely on our way to a winless season or two. At least we'd keep the purity!

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Just reported her deal is 5 years @ 750K per year. The incentive clause, allegedly, is that if she wins a national championship she will be given a raise to equal or exceed the highest paid coach in the country at that time.

As many psosters proclaimed in the search stage, $ talk (except for some reason to Becky Hammon), so make room for #9 in the rafters next season. Incentives BABY!

If you don’t think she can do it then the NC clause don’t matter. If she does do a NC and get the bump, it bothers you?

Confusing to even worry about it to me.

 

[livefaith]

If Kellie had this same resume she wouldn’t have gotten this flack. These midwits don’t like her because she is young and doesn’t have Lady Vol connections

I think ur right. The same herd fawned over our completely unproven 1st hire without a single win and didnt even raise a pinkie to question it. Yet an innovative young winner is dogged as unproven! This is why we need a SKILLED AD to go get the hire needed.

 

[chuckiepoo]

I know all this is legaleze and not intended to accurately reflect expectations, but I still find it funny when a contract simultaneously includes a clause implying the possibility of winning a national title coupled with clauses that imply that White might have to fire her within a year without cause. How's that for inspiring confidence?

If he fires her without cause before Mar. 31, 2025, he owes her 100% of her remaining salary. If he waits a day, he only owes her half of her remaining salary.

"Hey, Kim, you just might win a championship next year and become the highest+paid coach in women's basketball. Paid as much or more than coaches with eleven championships!"

"Gee, thanks, Danny. I really appreciate the vote of confidence. It means a lot to me.'

"Well, of course, I just might have to fire you by next Spring, too. There is that."

Extremely high ceiling opportunity!

 

[creekdipper]

But but she's not from Pat's tree. We'd rather keep losing with yet another mediocre hire. Maybe the 3rd time, we could miss the NCAAT completely on our way to a winless season or two. At least we'd keep the purity!

I keep in mind that you find getting blown out by 40-some points in the first round to somehow be more impressive than taking a mid-major to the Sweet Sixteen and throwing a major scare into Stanford.

 

[creekdipper]

I think ur right. The same herd fawned over our completely unproven 1st hire without a single win and didnt even raise a pinkie to question it. Yet an innovative young winner is dogged as unproven! This is why we need a SKILLED AD to go get the hire needed.

Serious question: How many beers have you had today?

 

[creekdipper]

Extremely high ceiling opportunity!

Always bet on

 

[madtownvol]

If you don’t think she can do it then the NC clause don’t matter. If she does do a NC and get the bump, it bothers you?

Confusing to even worry about it to me.

A little edgy today? I was just reporting the contract terms to someone who ask. No need to reframe every comment as an attack on Coach Caldwell. The $ comment was a jab at those who predicted that White would spend whatever it takes to get Hammon or Staley and that no one turns down a big pay increase.

 

[creekdipper]

Will there be a press conference?

Will there be cake? We were told there would be cake.

 

[madtownvol]

From some crappy website at an Alabama TV network that didn't even have ratings for this a year ago, when she wasn't coaching. (I checked on the Internet Archive.)

Anyway, using something more legitimate, like the ratings at sports-reference.com, we get that Marshall in 2023-24 was the 82nd best D1 team in the nation, with an SOS rated 146th: 2023-24 Marshall Thundering Herd Women 's Schedule and Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

And one year before, when someone else coached the team, Marshall was the 182nd best team with an SOS rated 223rd.

Gee, she improved them by 100 spots. But you are absolutely right that she doesn't need to create such a huge bump with Tennessee. The Lady Vols were 24th this season.

I'm glad there is an "ignore" option on here...

Already making excuses. If she can't move us up 100 spots from #24, then.....

 

[madtownvol]

I know all this is legaleze and not intended to accurately reflect expectations, but I still find it funny when a contract simultaneously includes a clause implying the possibility of winning a national title coupled with clauses that imply that White might have to fire her within a year without cause. How's that for inspiring confidence?

If he fires her without cause before Mar. 31, 2025, he owes her 100% of her remaining salary. If he waits a day, he only owes her half of her remaining salary.

"Hey, Kim, you just might win a championship next year and become the highest+paid coach in women's basketball. Paid as much or more than coaches with eleven championships!"

"Gee, thanks, Danny. I really appreciate the vote of confidence. It means a lot to me.'

"Well, of course, I just might have to fire you by next Spring, too. There is that."

Thanks, I did not know the buyout terms. Sounds like White is well aware of taking a big gamble and has provisions in place to cut his losses if things don't work out.

Caldwell has to know what she has signed up for. I am sure she thought the initial contact was an April Fools gag--"Oh, SHUUUURE, Tennessee wants me to be their new head coach."

For the record, I would be very perfectly happy if Coach Caldwell gets the big salary bump next season for winning the National Championship. I am just not betting my house on it. Got that Dadof2Vols?

 

[gladiator06]

From some crappy website at an Alabama TV network that didn't even have ratings for this a year ago, when she wasn't coaching. (I checked on the Internet Archive.)

Anyway, using something more legitimate, like the ratings at sports-reference.com, we get that Marshall in 2023-24 was the 82nd best D1 team in the nation, with an SOS rated 146th: 2023-24 Marshall Thundering Herd Women 's Schedule and Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

And one year before, when someone else coached the team, Marshall was the 182nd best team with an SOS rated 223rd.

Gee, she improved them by 100 spots. But you are absolutely right that she doesn't need to create such a huge bump with Tennessee. The Lady Vols were 24th this season.

I'm glad there is an "ignore" option on here...

wow...you made my point better than I did; i.e., Marshall wasn't good and weren't gonna ever be that good even with Caldwell. They won their conference and lost in the 1st round of the tournament by 40+ points. All their record and conference win says to me is they played in a cupcake conference against teams with SOS 100+. Additionally, you'd expect teams to be somewhat better when the starters have played together for 3 - 4 years. Given Marshall was losing a few Seniors, even with Caldwell, they probably. wouldn't repeat as conference champions. There is NO coach winning championships because he/she is so great alone. It takes a combination of coaching and talented players, or a coach who can develop where there is no talent.

All ratings will point to the Lady Vols struggling to get recruits that will help to restore the program to the glory days of old. I'll just say it - Caldwell want do it next year, the following year, the year following, etc.... Not gonna happen - PERIOD! There are too many SEC schools with HOF caliber coaches, where players will choose to go. The smartest thing DW could've done was to choose a coach with at least name recognition, who could've likely attracted some of the top talent in the transfer portal, like Deja Kelly and Amari Dewberry. Oh well!

 

[madtownvol]

It's the hand wringers that wish Holly were here and descended into not making the NCAAT, or CKH had stayed another year or two to take us there. Their pizzed @ our AD because he didn't allow a 3rd disaster in a row to fondle their feelings. That's all.

"Feeling fondling" can cause some real problems with the HR people. Best not to do it....