Tim Banks is either lying or delusional.

[sjt18]

I'm confused. That's what I have been referring to, so why are you disagreeing with me?

I'm not entirely sure I ever was... at least not on the conclusion that it is a mistake to judge UT's D on traditional yds/gm and ppg measures.

I don't think we agree on their performance this year. I'm still not buying Banks as a DC. Great coaches, coach great. Heupel is a GREAT offensive coach. I think he's a pretty good HC too. He turned out a 10 win season in year two with far less than ideal players on both sides of the ball. I'm just not ready to say that Banks matches that standard. I don't think UT had ideal talent on D for the past two years. I also don't think he schemed on the level of Heupel... who didn't have ideal talent on O either.

 

[sjt18]

I never witnessed Pruitts genius while.he was at Tennessee. I believe our defense with.Banks would shut down Ga. State.

That D held GSU to 352 yds of total O. UT didn't lose that game because of D. A big problem with the O was Pruitt's meddling... but not much you're going to do with JG at QB.

Pruitt was a good DC. Sometimes guys just need to know and understand their own limitations. He should have never considered a HC job.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

And we let them keep up with us by not stopping them. We can stop them. Dammit I want a defensive coordinator who is not satisfied with 85th in the nation in total defense, or 45th in scoring defense either. We need to get alot better on that side of the ball to win championships. Banks seems to think he did fine. We need to demand more to get back to that Orange Defense that brings home trophies.

Demanding more got us 15 years of puragorty. Demand away...im going to appreciate 10-2

 

[VolGee4]

I'm not entirely sure I ever was... at least not on the conclusion that it is a mistake to judge UT's D on traditional yds/gm and ppg measures.

I don't think we agree on their performance this year. I'm still not buying Banks as a DC. Great coaches, coach great. Heupel is a GREAT offensive coach. I think he's a pretty good HC too. He turned out a 10 win season in year two with far less than ideal players on both sides of the ball. I'm just not ready to say that Banks matches that standard. I don't think UT had ideal talent on D for the past two years. I also don't think he schemed on the level of Heupel... who didn't have ideal talent on O either.

Fair enough. I'm not saying he is great, but I will see what he can do moving forward. He is also still learning.

But the offense and DL have more high level players than the secondary. Aside from Tillman, Hooker, Hyatt, McCoy, Keyton were all fairly highly recruited. Some of the guys in the secondary that are starting were ranked 400+ as recruits. McDonald was almost ranked 600. Burrell was 527. Flowers was 930. Walker was 588. I hope this class helps bring improvement to the secondary.

 

[jeff1vol]

How much improvement should a fan reasonably expect of a new defensive staff year two over year one? What standard are you using to measure that?

Well... what did our Offense do this year compared to last?? How about the improvement in overall record? Significant improvement in year 2 isnt as unexpected as most think. Our total defense numbers are still in the 80's?? Thats not good by any measure.

 

[sjt18]

Demanding more got us 15 years of puragorty. Demand away...im going to appreciate 10-2

Demanding didn't get UT into that abyss. Complacency got UT into that abyss. Incompetence at the administrative level kept UT there. Demanding eventually got UT out of it.

As much as I like Heuple, White may be a bigger piece of the puzzle... and I don't think he's a guy who gets complacent.

 

[sjt18]

Fair enough. I'm not saying he is great, but I will see what he can do moving forward. He is also still learning.

But the offense and DL have more high level players than the secondary. Aside from Tillman, Hooker, Hyatt, McCoy, Keyton were all fairly highly recruited. Some of the guys in the secondary that are starting were ranked 400+ as recruits. McDonald was almost ranked 600. Burrell was 527. Flowers was 930. Walker was 588. I hope this class helps bring improvement to the secondary.

May have been the best player in the secondary and possibly the "best" defender. He was "quiet". Didn't give up a lot of open receptions. Didn't miss his run fills. Didn't miss tackles or assignments. Didn't get caught out of position.

I would buy that more if there weren't less talented secondaries that did better against common opponents. And there were times he had me talking to myself. He would call a blitz and give outside receivers a 10 yard cushion and free release. You can't give that much room. You might get burned and with lesser talent you will. OTOH... you'll also get home and produce big plays.

Honestly, I would have been happier if the D had given up more big plays in exchange for shorter drives/timely stops and big plays on D.

 

[VolGee4]

May have been the best player in the secondary and possibly the "best" defender. He was "quiet". Didn't give up a lot of open receptions. Didn't miss his run fills. Didn't miss tackles or assignments. Didn't get caught out of position.

I would buy that more if there weren't less talented secondaries that did better against common opponents. And there were times he had me talking to myself. He would call a blitz and give outside receivers a 10 yard cushion and free release. You can't give that much room. You might get burned and with lesser talent you will. OTOH... you'll also get home and produce big plays.

Honestly, I would have been happier if the D had given up more big plays in exchange for shorter drives/timely stops and big plays on D.

McDonald had a bad game against UF, missing several open field tackles. I remember because I got a text from someone asking who it was. Obviously, players can have bad days.

The zone/man discussion has been brought up as we seem to play more zone. But we played man on several of UF's 4th down conversions. Our DB's couldn't guard them. The Pitt game may have been the best game plan. Doug Matthews also said a month or so ago that coaching needs to get better, but he also sees guys in position who just aren't reacting well to the ball.

Conversely, Omari Thomas, Tyler Baron, Dominic Bailey were all highly recruited. Terry is a P5 transfer. Bumphus is old. Harrison was ranked higher than other DB that I previously mentioned. Byron Young was a top 15 JUCO player.

 

[sjt18]

McDonald had a bad game against UF, missing several open field tackles. I remember because I got a text from someone asking who it was. Obviously, players can have bad days.

The zone/man discussion has been brought up as we seem to play more zone. But we played man on several of UF's 4th down conversions. Our DB's couldn't guard them. The Pitt game may have been the best game plan. Doug Matthews also said a month or so ago that coaching needs to get better, but he also sees guys in position who just aren't reacting well to the ball.

Zone was the right move. Teams with less talent have played zones that were very difficult to move against. But that's a decision a coach has to have the foresight to make early. Even if you plan to be "multiple", you have to start with your foundation... your fallback position. Some call that an "identity". I don't think UT has an "identity" on D.

Playing zone your DB's have to "see" differently. Almost "read and react" like an old school LB. They have to anticipate. They even have to study film differently. I know you know this but a good zone D team makes throwing windows small and treacherous. Just didn't see that from UT's D.

My favorite DC from the last several years was Wilcox. His talent was far from ideal. But I remember him once saying that they actually didn't do anything complex... they just did it in ways that made it hard for the opposing O to recognize. Even something just that simple could have made a big difference for this D.

 

[LordBolton]

The only stat that really matters is points given up. Our defense was far from elite, but at 44th is more than adequate considering what we put up per game. If the D improves next year as much as it did this year, we are all going to have a fun season.

 

[tdd]

Not even close to the worst in the last decade.
View attachment 527212

You took one sentence and made a comment. If you read the whole thread, I said our defense was the worst defense for one game. Sal Sunseri’s defense was worse overall. If your going to comment, read the whole thread.

 

[swampfoxfan]

That D held GSU to 352 yds of total O. UT didn't lose that game because of D. A big problem with the O was Pruitt's meddling... but not much you're going to do with JG at QB.

Pruitt was a good DC. Sometimes guys just need to know and understand their own limitations. He should have never considered a HC job.

I have to agree with most of your response, but I do remember passes being completed when we didn't have a defender on that side of the field a lot of times it seemed.

 

[TennMan101]

The defensive line is solid. They defend the run well, but that's about all they do.

When they get pressure on the QB, the secondary looks a lot better than they are. LSU game was a good example of this, but they have been extremely inconsistent at getting pressure. If we hope to come away with a win against Clemson, this will be the key to the game IMO. We will also have to run the ball well too.

The Edge rushers we got this past year, along with two top 10 Edge rushers from the 23 class will have us looking very good in the pressuring QB department! That will also help our DB's which in turn helps the entire defense. I can't wait for Herring and Bradley to get here! I'm not sure which will end up being better, but pair them with Joseph and Pierce and that could be the best DE pass rush in the nation, in a year or two. JMO

 

[swampfoxfan]

I'm not entirely sure I ever was... at least not on the conclusion that it is a mistake to judge UT's D on traditional yds/gm and ppg measures.

I don't think we agree on their performance this year. I'm still not buying Banks as a DC. Great coaches, coach great. Heupel is a GREAT offensive coach. I think he's a pretty good HC too. He turned out a 10 win season in year two with far less than ideal players on both sides of the ball. I'm just not ready to say that Banks matches that standard. I don't think UT had ideal talent on D for the past two years. I also don't think he schemed on the level of Heupel... who didn't have ideal talent on O either.

Well that kind of sums up the talent vs coaching debate concerning our defense. I've not until now was sure which side of the fence I was on.
You make a great point great coaches coach great. Our offense didn't have a lot more talent than the defense. However great offense coaching got us 10 wins.

 

[Devo182]

Silliness.

Take that game out, as an anomaly like he said, and we averaged 19.9 ppg - good for 18th nationally. Out of 131 teams...86th percentile.

And that's with the fastest offense, which means we defended more possessions than almost anyone.

He isn't wrong. You just choose your selective perceptions and memory over cold hard facts.

 

[FollowTheLeader]

Silliness.

Take that game out, as an anomaly like he said, and we averaged 19.9 ppg - good for 18th nationally. Out of 131 teams...86th percentile.

And that's with the fastest offense, which means we defended more possessions than almost anyone.

He isn't wrong. You just choose your selective perceptions and memory over cold hard facts.

........for some reason, some people have a hard time giving coach Banks any credit. 10 games out of 12, the defense found a way to stop the other team from scoring more points than us and keep in mind, half of those games, the offense only needed to score 14 pts to win.

The KEYBOARD KIDS need a time out....

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Well... what did our Offense do this year compared to last?? How about the improvement in overall record? Significant improvement in year 2 isnt as unexpected as most think. Our total defense numbers are still in the 80's?? Thats not good by any measure.

So you think since the offense was number one in the country in year two - an amazing feat in everyone's eyes - that therefore the defense has no excuse not to improve more in year two over one? And, I believe I saw that scoring defense was in the 40's, which is a significant improvement.

 

[VolArmy74]

Silliness.

Take that game out, as an anomaly like he said, and we averaged 19.9 ppg - good for 18th nationally. Out of 131 teams...86th percentile.

And that's with the fastest offense, which means we defended more possessions than almost anyone.

He isn't wrong. You just choose your selective perceptions and memory over cold hard facts.

Take out a wrong number and you win a couple of billion in the power ball. In other words, leaving out a massive data point because you don't like it simply leads to a bad conclusion.

The defense played badly vs Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina was historically bad. It had a lot of poor moments at other times this season as well as have been noted here.

Someone asked about points per possession earlier.

The Vols were something like 74th in points allowed per drive when the drive started between the 1 and the 19. Seems like we always gave up points when we pinned someone deep, turned out it was true. We were abysmal on those drives for some reason. We were 65th in points per drive when the drive started between the 20 and 40. Now the most unusual stat that seems to make no sense, we were 26th in points per drive allowed when the field was less than 60 yards. Which may explain why we were okay kicking short.

Alabama was a complete 180 from us. Their rank in points allowed per drive ranked 7th if the drive was 99 to 81 yards. They were 14th if the drive was 80 to 60 yards. But they plunged to 131st on drives of 59 yards or less.

 

[Vato]

Crack is whack
- Whitney Houston

 

[TheFlash1971]

They played well for being on the field 45 minutes per game.

 

[JRich]

He has to be careful about publicly criticizing his players. He has to work with what he has.

 

[KnoxToTheBoro93]

He walked into this one himself. Y'all keep excusing bad defense though, and we'll keep wasting national championship caliber offenses.

It’s almost like we went 3-7 2 years ago my goodness 10-2 with improvements across the board not enough we trending in the right direction and signing the right players we will get there… your post in this thread have been looking at raw stats without context… the defense wasn’t great and it wasn’t bad either… we are still way ahead of schedule and it distorts reality of what our program went through prior to the heuple era…

 

[jasonvol18]

Probably 3 poor defensive games, 2 of which we won…and the UF game had its moments. The USCe was a bad game, and if that goes differently, this isn’t even a discussion.

It was a discussion before the SC game. Our secondary is flat out horrible. Luckily our DLine made our run defense look fairly good.

 

[GrizzlyVol]

The Carolina game was one of the worst things I've ever seen, they had some pretty good games but that game really put a damper on the season but 10-2 bowl great season

 

[HalfullVol]

Will WBurrell be available for the OB?