'22 TN RB Jordan James (Oregon commit)

[InVOLuntary]

That is absolutely true. However it it does not mean that we should not have rules or that someone should be forced to be "willing" to pay a particular price.

I don't like the NIL decision. I think there are good arguments against it. However here we are. We need to have rules that at a minimum establish some discipline around the portal and assure that NIL's can only be given for sound "business" reasons. If a company is paying for their "name, image, and/or likeness" then they should be using it for a business purpose.

Let me preface this by saying I hate NIL. It will/is ruining college football right before our eyes. I don't think these kids are worth what some are getting.

Having said that, what if someone decided that you make too much? What if they said your whole profession made too much? If someone said hey, I would like for you to represent this product for me and I'm willing to pay you $1M to use your name and likeness, would you want a third party to come in and decide that you didn't deserve that much?

 

[sjt18]

Let me preface this by saying I hate NIL. It will/is ruining college football right before our eyes. I don't think these kids are worth what some are getting.

I'm concerned. The NFL doesn't appeal to me any more for a lot of reasons. I stopped watching as a "fan" during what I believe was the last strike.

Having said that, what if someone decided that you make too much? What if they said your whole profession made too much? If someone said hey, I would like for you to represent this product for me and I'm willing to pay you $1M to use your name and likeness, would you want a third party to come in and decide that you didn't deserve that much?

I wasn't talking about competition per se. More the idea of a coming "minimum wage" for college athletes. Reform is needed with NIL... I suspect that the reform will be worse than the problem because of who runs things in colleges and universities.

I'm pretty laissez-faire. I loath the minimum wage- actually the concept behind the minimum wage... and believe it harms everyone but particularly those it supposedly helps/protects. I don't like the idea of government arbitrarily controlling prices, supply, or demand on a large scale or a small scale like we're talking.

 

[Carp]

Daniel Jeremiah's first mock has UGA with 5 first rounders. Insane.

Daniel Jeremiah 2022 NFL mock draft 1.0: Kenny Pickett, Malik Willis among 3 QBs taken in Round 1

I know he's clearly talented, but what has Quay Walker done to deserve a 1st round rating? His stats at UGA are underwhelming to say the least. I saw another mock with George Pickens as a 1st rounder and had the exact same thought. It's gotta be some UGA bias since they won the Natty. Cause Pickens did almost nothing at UGA.

 

[Nashvegas31]

I know he's clearly talented, but what has Quay Walker done to deserve a 1st round rating? His stats at UGA are underwhelming to say the least. I saw another mock with George Pickens as a 1st rounder and had the exact same thought. It's gotta be some UGA bias since they won the Natty. Cause Pickens did almost nothing at UGA.

Quay surprised me too but more because i haven’t kept up with him. UGa defense so loaded stats probably Hard to come by there. Pickens is first rd talent for sure. He was injured this year until CFP. Unfortunately he is also an undrafted head case so I figure he drops to 2nd/3rd rd

 

[pierce60]

I know he's clearly talented, but what has Quay Walker done to deserve a 1st round rating? His stats at UGA are underwhelming to say the least. I saw another mock with George Pickens as a 1st rounder and had the exact same thought. It's gotta be some UGA bias since they won the Natty. Cause Pickens did almost nothing at UGA.

George Pickens has a lot of Mike Williams/Charles Rogers/Justin Blackmon vibes to him....aka huge NFL busts....maybe I'm wrong though.

 

[Carp]

Quay surprised me too but more because i haven’t kept up with him. UGa defense so loaded stats probably Hard to come by there. Pickens is first rd talent for sure. He was injured this year until CFP. Unfortunately he is also an undrafted head case so I figure he drops to 2nd/3rd rd

Again, this is not related to their talent level. I'm sure both kids are super talented. But on field production has got to matter, particularly for 1st round talent doesn't it? I know I would hate it if the Titans drafted a guy in the 1st round who had virtually no production. I was pretty disappointed they drafted Farley last year, but he at least was all ACC in 2019 and had elite production from a DB. Walker and Pickens are basically all talent and mediocre production. I don't see how they can get serious first round consideration.

 

[volinSmyrna]

DNJ article

Why he's not (at least subtly) blasting Captain Bowl Cut is beyond me. If a coach/team did me dirty like that, I wouldn't be beating around the bush saying they were still in the mix etc. I guess kudos for him taking the high road.

 

[Notorious NIC]

DNJ article

Why he's not (at least subtly) blasting Captain Bowl Cut is beyond me. If a coach/team did me dirty like that, I wouldn't be beating around the bush saying they were still in the mix etc. I guess kudos for him taking the high road.

My guess is he still wants to go there. Maybe he’s thinking along the lines of Jahmyr Gibbs, and thinks he can transfer up in a year or two. I don’t get it either.

 

[volinSmyrna]

My guess is he still wants to go there. Maybe he’s thinking along the lines of Jahmyr Gibbs, and thinks he can transfer up in a year or two. I don’t get it either.

True. I guess in today's day and age of the portal, you don't accomplish much by burning bridges.

 

[m1al]

True. I guess in today's day and age of the portal, you don't accomplish much by burning bridges.

I say nuke the damn thing. Rebuild it later only if necessary....

 

[KptVFL]

DNJ article

Why he's not (at least subtly) blasting Captain Bowl Cut is beyond me. If a coach/team did me dirty like that, I wouldn't be beating around the bush saying they were still in the mix etc. I guess kudos for him taking the high road.

Is behind a paywall. What was the article about?

 

[volinSmyrna]

Is behind a paywall. What was the article about?

Just his thoughts on the process. He took a visit to Oregon...might take a visit to Florida...FSU still in it because they were recruiting him throughout the process and already visited there last semester.

 

[KptVFL]

Just his thoughts on the process. He took a visit to Oregon...might take a visit to Florida...FSU still in it because they were recruiting him throughout the process and already visited there last semester.

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

[volinSmyrna]

Gotcha. Thanks!

I forgot to add that he didn't say much about UGA.

"On Monday, when asked if he had re-opened his recruitment, "Technically, yes." "He declined to comment on his decision to not sign with the Georgia or his current status with the Bulldogs, other than to say they were still in the mix."

He did say he talked with Heupel when he stopped by Oakland, but that was about it.

"James said he has had little contact with Tennessee, but did say he spoke with Vols coach Josh Heupel when he visited Oakland recently. "

 

[Vol8188]

That is absolutely true. However it it does not mean that we should not have rules or that someone should be forced to be "willing" to pay a particular price.

I don't like the NIL decision. I think there are good arguments against it. However here we are. We need to have rules that at a minimum establish some discipline around the portal and assure that NIL's can only be given for sound "business" reasons. If a company is paying for their "name, image, and/or likeness" then they should be using it for a business purpose.

I disagree with you about the need for rules on paying for “sound business reasons”. Let the business decide what they value.

But I agree with limitations on the portal. Specifically I think it was Josh Pate who recommended have 1-2 portal signing days along with specific periods the portal would be open. That I support. Along with moving the early signing period to July

 

[sjt18]

I disagree with you about the need for rules on paying for “sound business reasons”. Let the business decide what they value.

If you do then you have basically turned college football into professional football and destroyed the game. NIL is well on its way to doing that. The only way to stem that and preserve something of CFB is to create some "guard rails" to prevent abuse... and making it simply a matter of which school has the most graduates and rich graduates.

This isn't an outrageous ask. It would be stupid to pay an actor for NIL then never use their NIL to advertise the business, right? We would recognize that some form of corruption were likely occurring.

You may have other ideas on how to avoid or mitigate that problem.... but if you thought the lack of parity was bad with essentially 5 or fewer teams with a realistic shot at winning the NC it will get far worse if rich fans can essentially play guys ONLY to play football and not for the actual use of their NIL.

But I agree with limitations on the portal. Specifically I think it was Josh Pate who recommended have 1-2 portal signing days along with specific periods the portal would be open. That I support. Along with moving the early signing period to July

I don't like the July signing period because of the impact it would have on HS senior seasons and the risks to programs from player injuries. A lot of players break out in their Sr year too. I like the December date.

 

[Vol8188]

If you do then you have basically turned college football into professional football and destroyed the game. NIL is well on its way to doing that. The only way to stem that and preserve something of CFB is to create some "guard rails" to prevent abuse... and making it simply a matter of which school has the most graduates and rich graduates.

This isn't an outrageous ask. It would be stupid to pay an actor for NIL then never use their NIL to advertise the business, right? We would recognize that some form of corruption were likely occurring.

You may have other ideas on how to avoid or mitigate that problem.... but if you thought the lack of parity was bad with essentially 5 or fewer teams with a realistic shot at winning the NC it will get far worse if rich fans can essentially play guys ONLY to play football and not for the actual use of their NIL.

But I agree with limitations on the portal. Specifically I think it was Josh Pate who recommended have 1-2 portal signing days along with specific periods the portal would be open. That I support. Along with moving the early signing period to July

[/QUOTE]

I don’t see it as a problem so I find no need to avoid /mitigate it nor have you presented why it’s a problem. Let businesses decide how to spend their money. How is any of that “ruining the game”

 

[sjt18]

I don’t see it as a problem so I find no need to avoid /mitigate it nor have you presented why it’s a problem. Let businesses decide how to spend their money. How is any of that “ruining the game”

Well. Yeah. I spent several words explaining why it is a problem.... and corrupt.

If the ruling is that a player owns his NIL and can sell it... that does NOT legitimize a business simply giving a player money for nothing except signing with their favored school. That means that the player can sell his name, image, or likeness for some business purpose.

"Legitimate business expense" is NOT a radical idea or inappropriate measure to prevent corruption.

You seriously don't see the risk in having Trump level wealth and deciding to pay players under supposed "NIL" deals for nothing except playing for his favorite school?

 

[Vol8188]

Well. Yeah. I spent several words explaining why it is a problem.... and corrupt.

If the ruling is that a player owns his NIL and can sell it... that does NOT legitimize a business simply giving a player money for nothing except signing with their favored school.

"Legitimate business expense" is NOT a radical or inappropriate measure to prevent corruption.

You seriously don't see the risk in having Trump level wealth and deciding to pay players under supposed "NIL" deals for nothing except playing for his favorite school?

Expect you didn’t….and no. Billionaires have been putting money into college sports for many years. What’s the problem?

 

[sjt18]

Expect you didn’t….and no. Billionaires have been putting money into college sports for many years. What’s the problem?

LOL... That's been a HUGE problem when it comes to direct payment to players and the inequity that creates.

You obviously do not care that you are advocating a corrupt system that will destroy college sports in every way that matters. Competition will decrease with it becoming simply a war of whose alumni is willing to pony up more... or has the ability.

I am advocating nothing more than the legitimate rules in business that keep competition above board.

 

[Vol8188]

LOL... That's been a HUGE problem when it comes to direct payment to players and the inequity that creates.

You obviously do not care that you are advocating a corrupt system that will destroy college sports in every way that matters. Competition will decrease with it becoming simply a war of whose alumni is willing to pony up more... or has the ability.

I am advocating nothing more than the legitimate rules in business that keep competition above board.

You believe college football has ever had equity? The “corruption” has always been here.

 

[volinSmyrna]

Well. Yeah. I spent several words explaining why it is a problem.... and corrupt.

If the ruling is that a player owns his NIL and can sell it... that does NOT legitimize a business simply giving a player money for nothing except signing with their favored school. That means that the player can sell his name, image, or likeness for some business purpose.

"Legitimate business expense" is NOT a radical idea or inappropriate measure to prevent corruption.

You seriously don't see the risk in having Trump level wealth and deciding to pay players under supposed "NIL" deals for nothing except playing for his favorite school?

Simply paying devil's advocate here. Let's say a company signs an NIL deal with a player for jerseys. The player gets $10 per jersey sold. What is to prevent that company (or some booster) to guarantee and buy up 10,000 of those. This would "technically" be a legitimate business expense. I think there need to be some guard rails, but we have opened pandora's box and are now in the wild west.

I think the intent of NIL was to provide a way for the players to benefit if the market warranted. Star QB gets to have his name printed on the back of Nike jerseys and gets a percentage of the sales. Players get to be contracted to promote businesses etc. Should there be a cap on the amount of money a player receives for filming a 30 second ad? Does the NCAA want to get involved in policing that, or is it going to be a free-for-all? Come sign here and we'll pay you $100k for being in a print ad etc.

 

[MarcoVol]

Simply paying devil's advocate here. Let's say a company signs an NIL deal with a player for jerseys. The player gets $10 per jersey sold. What is to prevent that company (or some booster) to guarantee and buy up 10,000 of those. This would "technically" be a legitimate business expense. I think there need to be some guard rails, but we have opened pandora's box and are now in the wild west.

I think the intent of NIL was to provide a way for the players to benefit if the market warranted. Star QB gets to have his name printed on the back of Nike jerseys and gets a percentage of the sales. Players get to be contracted to promote businesses etc. Should there be a cap on the amount of money a player receives for filming a 30 second ad? Does the NCAA want to get involved in policing that, or is it going to be a free-for-all? Come sign here and we'll pay you $100k for being in a print ad etc.

The players are benefitting bc the market IS warranting it. That’s how it works. It will evolve but it will always be about who is willing to pay what.

 

[volinSmyrna]

The players are benefitting bc the market IS warranting it. That’s how it works. It will evolve but it will always be about who is willing to pay what.

100% agree.

 

[sjt18]

Simply paying devil's advocate here. Let's say a company signs an NIL deal with a player for jerseys. The player gets $10 per jersey sold. What is to prevent that company (or some booster) to guarantee and buy up 10,000 of those. This would "technically" be a legitimate business expense.

Nothing possibly. Maybe even a good thing if they distributed them to kids coming to UT home games. But just like the real business world the laws are constructed to discourage corruption. For instance, you or a client could get in hot water either legally or with your companies if you bought 5000 boxes of Girl Scout cookies from his kid and he gave you a bid that you didn't earn.

I think there need to be some guard rails, but we have opened pandora's box and are now in the wild west.

That's my point. I'm not saying we go all NASCAR and ruin the sport by having rules that are too tight. But think of what a few universities could do with unrestrained NIL that has no tether to actual business value.

Consider Michigan. They're one of the top public colleges in the country and graduate more than twice as many each year as UT. Just by shear numbers... they have more than twice the potential for the kind of "NIL" where there's no actual NIL use.

I think the intent of NIL was to provide a way for the players to benefit if the market warranted. Star QB gets to have his name printed on the back of Nike jerseys and gets a percentage of the sales. Players get to be contracted to promote businesses etc. Should there be a cap on the amount of money a player receives for filming a 30 second ad? Does the NCAA want to get involved in policing that, or is it going to be a free-for-all? Come sign here and we'll pay you $100k for being in a print ad etc.

I wouldn't limit the money except to say that a contract for NIL should have terms for delivery. If the player is going to get $100,000 per year then the company should have in writing what they will get in return. It should be verifiable.

It could be as simple as Hooker going to the local Toyota dealership for a big sales event and autograph signing. Product endorsements are going to be huge. Doing a subdivision grand opening.

My issue is that I don't want this to simply be a direct payment for playing football for a particular school. That is not what the ruling was about.

I really, really DON'T want bureaucrats from government or the NCAA in the business of setting or capping prices.