'20 TN WR Holden Willis (USF commit)

#326
#326
GUNTERSVOL said:
Ok, we get that for some reason you do not want this kid to be a part of our program even though our staff has given him an offer to join as a PWO. Trust your own analysis or that of folks with insider information that you value. I am going to go with our staff. There is risk in trying to analyze players in lower divisions of HS ball. Got it. I am guessing he is aware of that as he has talked with all the schools that have offered him different opportunities. So why don't we let him analyze all of those and if he determines he is willing to risk one semester of his life to pursue playing football at a P5 school, the one closest to his home none the less, and he is comfortable with the honesty and integrity of our staff it can turn into a win win for both him and UT. If not, and he needs to be playing at a lower level he can transfer down and play immediately at his next school choice. It could be his safest choice, rather than wondering about the opportunity the rest of his life. An issue for most kids offered a PWO. Who knows what a guy with his tools can do with some natural maturity, a top tier training table and strength facility and a lot of hard work. Only one way to find out.

Further serial attacks on him are not necessary and certainly not productive. I am glad that if he is looking on this board he can easily determine by the number of responses to your post give him a more fair look into the composition of the Orange nation.
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Do you even know what a preferred walk-on is?
 
#327
#327
GUNTERSVOL said:
Ok, we get that for some reason you do not want this kid to be a part of our program even though our staff has given him an offer to join as a PWO. Trust your own analysis or that of folks with insider information that you value. I am going to go with our staff. There is risk in trying to analyze players in lower divisions of HS ball. Got it. I am guessing he is aware of that as he has talked with all the schools that have offered him different opportunities. So why don't we let him analyze all of those and if he determines he is willing to risk one semester of his life to pursue playing football at a P5 school, the one closest to his home none the less, and he is comfortable with the honesty and integrity of our staff it can turn into a win win for both him and UT. If not, and he needs to be playing at a lower level he can transfer down and play immediately at his next school choice. It could be his safest choice, rather than wondering about the opportunity the rest of his life. An issue for most kids offered a PWO. Who knows what a guy with his tools can do with some natural maturity, a top tier training table and strength facility and a lot of hard work. Only one way to find out.

Further serial attacks on him are not necessary and certainly not productive. I am glad that if he is looking on this board he can easily determine by the number of responses to your post give him a more fair look into the composition of the Orange nation.
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If Holden is going to be a high level athlete, he will be able to handle both positive and negative comments from fans..... This particular forum is to critique our potential recruits. Most of the positive reviews have been bc he is a local kid with potential and most of the negative is bc he is a low rated white skilled player. I trust our coaches who don’t think he is quite scholarship level but good enough for a PWO.
 
#330
#330
volbeast33 said:
If Holden is going to be a high level athlete, he will be able to handle both positive and negative comments from fans..... This particular forum is to critique our potential recruits. Most of the positive reviews have been bc he is a local kid with potential and most of the negative is bc he is a low rated white skilled player. I trust our coaches who don’t think he is quite scholarship level but good enough for a PWO.
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Got no problem with the basis of your assessment except you attribute MOST of his positives are simply because he is local, when maybe a good portion could be because he was selected as the best player in all of Class 1 . I do reserve the right to point out those REPETITIVELY challenging his intelligence for even considering taking this offer rather than a full ride to lower level schools. It is a personal decision and I will not consider it an affront if his decision is to go that route, but will be hopeful it works out that he can be a contributor at a D1 school 30 miles from his HS stadium. I am hoping to avoid large portions of our own fanbase that would crucify our staff for allowing him to go elsewhere with out any effort with such accolades. I agree he must be prepared to deal with a vast array of fans wherever he goes, but do want him to know that large groups of us will have his back as he analyzes this and other boards if he elects to stay home. For the record I am a bit nervous about letting the other local MR Tennessee leave town, under totally different circumstances in that he had multiple D1 offers.
 
#331
#331
GUNTERSVOL said:
Got no problem with the basis of your assessment except you attribute MOST of his positives are simply because he is local, when maybe a good portion could be because he was selected as the best player in all of Class 1 . I do reserve the right to point out those REPETITIVELY challenging his intelligence for even considering taking this offer rather than a full ride to lower level schools. It is a personal decision and I will not consider it an affront if his decision is to go that route, but will be hopeful it works out that he can be a contributor at a D1 school 30 miles from his HS stadium. I am hoping to avoid large portions of our own fanbase that would crucify our staff for allowing him to go elsewhere with out any effort with such accolades. I agree he must be prepared to deal with a vast array of fans wherever he goes, but do want him to know that large groups of us will have his back as he analyzes this and other boards if he elects to stay home. For the record I am a bit nervous about letting the other local MR Tennessee leave town, under totally different circumstances in that he had multiple D1 offers.
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If that was the case, why are there not more threads like this for all the me football winners that do not get recruited by division 1 schools? The overwhelming majority of me football winners in Tennessee have to play at a lower level. As for Elijah Young.... he would have fit our previous staffs offense better than the one we run now.... I hope all our local kids reach their dreams but want our staff to recruit the best kids possible no matter where they are from..... The staffs jobs depend on it.
 
#332
#332
Another thing everyone has to understand about De1 is NPA is a part of the service industry for lack of a better term, although I do agree with his stance about tearing up your body for free, it also looks better for NPA to say we took this 1a player and got him a scholarship to Tulane instead of a PWO to Tennessee, it's a business decision for both parties.
 
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#334
#334
volbeast33 said:
If that was the case, why are there not more threads like this for all the me football winners that do not get recruited by division 1 schools? The overwhelming majority of me football winners in Tennessee have to play at a lower level. As for Elijah Young.... he would have fit our previous staffs offense better than the one we run now.... I hope all our local kids reach their dreams but want our staff to recruit the best kids possible no matter where they are from..... The staffs jobs depend on it.
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We all want them to maximize the 85 and the PWO allotment on top of that. This thread started with this player being offered a PWO... I have not seen a bunch of posts saying he should get one of this years counters, but some are excited that he might consider joining the team and earning a scholly down the road. Why make a negative out of this potential? Why challenge the intelligence of any player on the cusp of taking a shot this route. He is big and he is fast and he is a MR. Football winner who played at a level that makes it hard to evaluate.... Let's encourage these guys to weigh their options and do what they are most comfortable with and leave it at that. Nothing wrong with some of us hoping it works out and he has a Johnny Mills type impact..... Some old timers could relate to this guy.... a hybrid type receiver who grew each of his 3 years.....
 
#336
#336
GUNTERSVOL said:
We all want them to maximize the 85 and the PWO allotment on top of that. This thread started with this player being offered a PWO... I have not seen a bunch of posts saying he should get one of this years counters, but some are excited that he might consider joining the team and earning a scholly down the road. Why make a negative out of this potential? Why challenge the intelligence of any player on the cusp of taking a shot this route. He is big and he is fast and he is a MR. Football winner who played at a level that makes it hard to evaluate.... Let's encourage these guys to weigh their options and do what they are most comfortable with and leave it at that. Nothing wrong with some of us hoping it works out and he has a Johnny Mills type impact..... Some old timers could relate to this guy.... a hybrid type receiver who grew each of his 3 years.....
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I agree with you, this is not a negative , I think for UT it comes down to scholarship numbers as they only have 3-5 left for which I’m guessing they already know who else will sign plus getting a kids like Holden as a PWO to add to the roster better enhances the team competition, Pruitt is big on competition. This staff knows he has no P5 offers so they are not competing with other P5 schools for him, they also know his dream is to play for UT, so getting him as a PWO to add to this signing class is great as he will get it done if he chooses to go that route. A PWO is nothing to be discouraged about, as some say it is, heck JJ Watts and Clay Matthews were also PWOs, worked out great for them as well!
 
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#337
#337
JJ Watt was not a PWO. He was a scholarship tight end for Butch Jones at Central Michigan, and transferred to Wisconsin without a scholarship. Kinda like De1 suggested Willis should do.
 
#338
#338
bigl3327 said:
JJ Watt was not a PWO. He was a scholarship tight end for Butch Jones at Central Michigan, and transferred to Wisconsin without a scholarship. Kinda like De1 suggested Willis should do.
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Sorry, the article I read said he was a PWO a UW.
 
#339
#339
Rabid Vol said:
Sorry, the article I read said he was a PWO a UW.
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There is a difference between a transfer walk on and a preferred walk on. Paul Bain was a transfer walk on at UT. He transferred from Tusculum(sp?). That is the same situation as JJ Watt. PWO's are offered by coaches to players coming out of high school. It is a marginally better situation than just being a regular walk on and offers a greater opportunity to be put on scholarship.
 
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#340
#340
bigl3327 said:
There is a difference between a transfer walk on and a preferred walk on. Paul Bain was a transfer walk on at UT. He transferred from Tusculum(sp?). That is the same situation as JJ Watt. PWO's are offered by coaches to players coming out of high school. It is a marginally better situation than just being a regular walk on and offers a greater opportunity to be put on scholarship.
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Except JJ was a TE at Central Michigan left and was delivering pizza before he went to Wisconsin.
 
#346
#346
Rabid Vol said:
Ok, are you say you spoke with a UT coach about Willis? He played above his competition hence he broke the TSSAA single season TD receiving record + 1700+ yards receiving, finished 8th among elite receivers at the Nike open camp in Nashville and his numbers were close to the top 4-5, I would say that’s better than being mid tier guy. You say he’s not SEC talent, I say he is and we can agree to disagree. You’re right, playing 1A has hurt him somewhat, but he did all he could do to prove his worth as a high level football player.
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20191228_180901.jpg
 
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#347
#347
GUNTERSVOL said:
Ok, we get that for some reason you do not want this kid to be a part of our program even though our staff has given him an offer to join as a PWO. Trust your own analysis or that of folks with insider information that you value. I am going to go with our staff. There is risk in trying to analyze players in lower divisions of HS ball. Got it. I am guessing he is aware of that as he has talked with all the schools that have offered him different opportunities. So why don't we let him analyze all of those and if he determines he is willing to risk one semester of his life to pursue playing football at a P5 school, the one closest to his home none the less, and he is comfortable with the honesty and integrity of our staff it can turn into a win win for both him and UT. If not, and he needs to be playing at a lower level he can transfer down and play immediately at his next school choice. It could be his safest choice, rather than wondering about the opportunity the rest of his life. An issue for most kids offered a PWO. Who knows what a guy with his tools can do with some natural maturity, a top tier training table and strength facility and a lot of hard work. Only one way to find out.

Further serial attacks on him are not necessary and certainly not productive. I am glad that if he is looking on this board he can easily determine by the number of responses to your post give him a more fair look into the composition of the Orange nation.
Click to expand...

You sound silly and are trying to make it personal. Its not personal at all. Getting a PWO is nothing when a kid has real valid offers. I'm not speaking from a fan perspective as many of you are. I speak as a talent evaluator/ trainer a job in which I've done for over 15 yrs. I've trained many P5 guys as well as a gazillion FCS guys. I have 3 pros i trained personally. What you tk personal i clearly Do Not. I watched the leading rusher in Ensworth and the state go to a lower level Tulane and then go to the NY Giants and become their starter. The kid doesn't have to play at UT to be successful. The problem here is I can be objective and many of you only see Orange/White.
 
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#348
#348
de1conley said:
You sound silly and are trying to make it personal. Its not personal at all. Getting a PWO is nothing when a kid has real valid offers. I'm not speaking from a fan perspective as many of you are. I speak as a talent evaluator/ trainer a job in which I've done for over 15 yrs. I've trained many P5 guys as well as a gazillion FCS guys. I have 3 pros i trained personally. What you tk personal i clearly Do Not. I watched the leading rusher in Ensworth and the state go to a lower level Tulane and then go to the NY Giants and become their starter. The kid doesn't have to play at UT to be successful. The problem here is I can be objective and many of you only see Orange/White.
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De1, I've realized that many that post here are casual observers and don't really "know" football. So trying to explain things sometimes comes across as personal attacks to them. It's the reason I don't even try in many cases. You bring good stuff to the board, but sometimes it may not be worth the effort.
 
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#349
#349
de1conley said:
You sound silly and are trying to make it personal. Its not personal at all. Getting a PWO is nothing when a kid has real valid offers. I'm not speaking from a fan perspective as many of you are. I speak as a talent evaluator/ trainer a job in which I've done for over 15 yrs. I've trained many P5 guys as well as a gazillion FCS guys. I have 3 pros i trained personally. What you tk personal i clearly Do Not. I watched the leading rusher in Ensworth and the state go to a lower level Tulane and then go to the NY Giants and become their starter. The kid doesn't have to play at UT to be successful. The Got no problem with your basis of your assessment except . I do reserve the right to point out those REPETITIVELY challenging his intelligence for even considering taking this offer rather than a full ride to lower level schools. It is a personal decision and I will not consider it an affront if his decision is to go that route, but will be hopeful it works out that he can be a contributor at a D1 school 30 miles from his HS stadium. iproblem here is I can be objective and many of you only see Orange/White.
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So why don't we let him and his support folks analyze the entire array of offers and pick the path that best deals with their own risk/reward goals. I have no clue what those are. But with the PWO and maybe Hope scholly and other financial assists they would prefer him playing in Knoxville where they can see every home game with ease rather than deal with transportation and housing costs in your example of Tulane. On top of that the staff could have addressed the potential of getting a full ride down the road. As a fan I would love for one of those feel good local guy makes good stories. However if he chooses an alternate path I hope he chooses the best one wherever that leads him. You have established that him getting the PWO is "NOTHING", he may have a totally different value system than you do.
 
#350
#350
de1conley said:
You sound silly and are trying to make it personal. Its not personal at all. Getting a PWO is nothing when a kid has real valid offers. I'm not speaking from a fan perspective as many of you are. I speak as a talent evaluator/ trainer a job in which I've done for over 15 yrs. I've trained many P5 guys as well as a gazillion FCS guys. I have 3 pros i trained personally. What you tk personal i clearly Do Not. I watched the leading rusher in Ensworth and the state go to a lower level Tulane and then go to the NY Giants and become their starter. The kid doesn't have to play at UT to be successful. The problem here is I can be objective and many of you only see Orange/White.
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Question. What is your take on using a service such as Tennessee Gridiron Scouting or Chris Smith Scouting to help a kid with the process.
 
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