'20 TN WR Holden Willis (USF commit)

[Rabid Vol]

De1, I've realized that many that post here are casual observers and don't really "know" football. So trying to explain things sometimes comes across as personal attacks to them. It's the reason I don't even try in many cases. You bring good stuff to the board, but sometimes it may not be worth the effort.

It’s great to have folks like you and De1 to keep the “ casual observers who don’t really know football “ in check and educated. Keep bringing the good stuff, it is worth it.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

It’s great to have folks like you and De1 to keep the “ casual observers who don’t really know football “ in check and educated. Keep bringing the good stuff, it is worth it.

It appears that big3327 doesn't know a whole lot about football but thinks he wrote the book.

 

[SweetasSoda]

De1, I've realized that many that post here are casual observers and don't really "know" football. So trying to explain things sometimes comes across as personal attacks to them. It's the reason I don't even try in many cases. You bring good stuff to the board, but sometimes it may not be worth the effort.

Lol.... I admit I am a orange glasses wearing cheerleader with orange blood. It is all about the Vols for me. It is also obvious where DE1 is coming from. But posters who "know football" but aren't getting paid to use that knowledge are just another poster on a fan board.

 

[de1conley]

Ok, are you say you spoke with a UT coach about Willis? He played above his competition hence he broke the TSSAA single season TD receiving record + 1700+ yards receiving, finished 8th among elite receivers at the Nike open camp in Nashville and his numbers were close to the top 4-5, I would say that’s better than being mid tier guy. You say he’s not SEC talent, I say he is and we can agree to disagree. You’re right, playing 1A has hurt him somewhat, but he did all he could do to prove his worth as a high level football player.

Look all the records are cool for personal accolades but as far as that goes its still seen as 1A football and lower tier. My lil cousin had offers and couldn't commit because he played at Davidson Academy a lower tier private but had all kinds of records. He ended up at Purdue. We as fans just hv to accept everyone isn't upper tier SEC guys.

 

[de1conley]

De1, I've realized that many that post here are casual observers and don't really "know" football. So trying to explain things sometimes comes across as personal attacks to them. It's the reason I don't even try in many cases. You bring good stuff to the board, but sometimes it may not be worth the effort.

I understand that which is why I try to get them to understand nothing is personal LOL but so much for that.

 

[de1conley]

Question. What is your take on using a service such as Tennessee Gridiron Scouting or Chris Smith Scouting to help a kid with the process.

The more resources you use the more exposure. The thing is if you join a group that trains and does both you don't really need either of those. Both are really just upstart small budget ppl with a vision to be a rivals or 24/7. Carlos and Will are way further ahead of the curve than Chris Smith. Both sacrifice a lot of time to do what they do.

 

[de1conley]

So why don't we let him and his support folks analyze the entire array of offers and pick the path that best deals with their own risk/reward goals. I have no clue what those are. But with the PWO and maybe Hope scholly and other financial assists they would prefer him playing in Knoxville where they can see every home game with ease rather than deal with transportation and housing costs in your example of Tulane. On top of that the staff could have addressed the potential of getting a full ride down the road. As a fan I would love for one of those feel good local guy makes good stories. However if he chooses an alternate path I hope he chooses the best one wherever that leads him. You have established that him getting the PWO is "NOTHING", he may have a totally different value system than you do.

@GUNTERSVOL let me address this for the last time. I used Orleans Darkwa as an example. I never said this kid should or could go to Tulane. I also stated Orleans took the scholarship to Tulane over PWO or any color shirt from Kiff and company. In my examples of offers or schools i said would better suit the kid such as UTC level maybe MTSU. I also stated this is not from a fan's perspective but a person who has advised kids of what's the better decision. I Do Not know of the kid's family finances but free money and playing time are things you look at. As far as what a coach promises let me inform you that they ALL lie and make situations look like heaven on earth when there is no guarantee of anything once they get your signature. Again even @bigl3327 has explained there is no true value in PWO other than being a part of the team at practice. Kids want to play. Why waste years earnining something when you can take a scholarship from a school who truly wants or needs you? Its really common sense seriously.

 

[Rabid Vol]

The more resources you use the more exposure. The thing is if you join a group that trains and does both you don't really need either of those. Both are really just upstart small budget ppl with a vision to be a rivals or 24/7. Carlos and Will are way further ahead of the curve than Chris Smith. Both sacrifice a lot of time to do what they do.

Have you talked to Carol and Will about Holden? They both were on the GB sideline for the SP semi game. If you haven’t and trust their judgment of talent, they could tell you if he is SEC worthy. It appears you are basing evaluation mostly based on him playing 1A ball. I think everyone who has posted concerning this has said we’re all glad he’s getting to opportunity to play at some level. You might have already stated, but have you seen this kid in person?

 

[vols 30]

@GUNTERSVOL let me address this for the last time. I used Orleans Darkwa as an example. I never said this kid should or could go to Tulane. I also stated Orleans took the scholarship to Tulane over PWO or any color shirt from Kiff and company. In my examples of offers or schools i said would better suit the kid such as UTC level maybe MTSU. I also stated this is not from a fan's perspective but a person who has advised kids of what's the better decision. I Do Not know of the kid's family finances but free money and playing time are things you look at. As far as what a coach promises let me inform you that they ALL lie and make situations look like heaven on earth when there is no guarantee of anything once they get your signature. Again even @bigl3327 has explained there is no true value in PWO other than being a part of the team at practice. Kids want to play. Why waste years earnining something when you can take a scholarship from a school who truly wants or needs you? Its really common sense seriously.

Agree, this kid better jump on that Tulane offer. Unless, he thinks someone else will offer

 

[Rabid Vol]

Have you talked to Carol and Will about Holden? They both were on the GB sideline for the SP semi game. If you haven’t and trust their judgment of talent, they could tell you if he is SEC worthy. It appears you are basing evaluation mostly based on him playing 1A ball. I think everyone who has posted concerning this has said we’re all glad he’s getting to opportunity to play at some level. You might have already stated, but have you seen this kid in person?

Meant to say Carlos,

 

[Rabid Vol]

Agree, this kid better jump on that Tulane offer. Unless, he thinks someone else will offer

A lot can happen between now and Feb.

 

[Vfl83]

Have you talked to Carol and Will about Holden? They both were on the GB sideline for the SP semi game. If you haven’t and trust their judgment of talent, they could tell you if he is SEC worthy. It appears you are basing evaluation mostly based on him playing 1A ball. I think everyone who has posted concerning this has said we’re all glad he’s getting to opportunity to play at some level. You might have already stated, but have you seen this kid in person?

I can tell you Carlos is very very very high on Willis. He stated that Willis is right there with any athelete they have seen all year this year. on a side note We have more talent in this state from 2021-2023 than we have ever had.

 

[Vfl83]

Agree, this kid better jump on that Tulane offer. Unless, he thinks someone else will offer

I'd play for JJ in heart beat

 

[Jackcrevol]

Question. What is your take on using a service such as Tennessee Gridiron Scouting or Chris Smith Scouting to help a kid with the process.

edit: neermind

 

[bigl3327]

It appears that big3327 doesn't know a whole lot about football but thinks he wrote the book.

It appears you took my post personally, which wasn't directed at anyone individually. But you called yourself out. I never said I wrote the book, but I've been around the game for over 40 years as the son of a college coach, as a player, as a college recruit, as a college player, then as a coach and trainer myself. Also went through the entire process with my two younger brothers and one of my sons. I've been on this board for years because I'm a Vol fan and love the recruiting side as much as I love the game itself. So, if you fall into the casual observer category, don't out yourself by coming at me.

 

[de1conley]

Have you talked to Carol and Will about Holden? They both were on the GB sideline for the SP semi game. If you haven’t and trust their judgment of talent, they could tell you if he is SEC worthy. It appears you are basing evaluation mostly based on him playing 1A ball. I think everyone who has posted concerning this has said we’re all glad he’s getting to opportunity to play at some level. You might have already stated, but have you seen this kid in person?

I'm basing it on my observations not just him playing 1A. Los and Will are paid to help this kid. I was at the state championships and watched all the games as I always do whether Tv or in person. There's a difference in competition between 1 and 6A. I'll gv you another example ppl were criticizing back in the day. Troy Flemming played lil boy ball and nobody wanted him and he ended up at UT as a Fb. He played lil boy private football and broke all the records nationally. Ppl laughed at it and said what I'm saying now. Level of competition carries alot of weight. Do you think if the kid played for Marryville or Alcoa he'd get such little play in his recruitment? Typically kids like this go to the likes of UTC or lower and have a great career/fun. Not a knock on the kid but it is what it is. Nothing personal at all and I can't say this enough.

 

[Rabid Vol]

I'm basing it on my observations not just him playing 1A. Los and Will are paid to help this kid. I was at the state championships and watched all the games as I always do whether Tv or in person. There's a difference in competition between 1 and 6A. I'll gv you another example ppl were criticizing back in the day. Troy Flemming played lil boy ball and nobody wanted him and he ended up at UT as a Fb. He played lil boy private football and broke all the records nationally. Ppl laughed at it and said what I'm saying now. Level of competition carries alot of weight. Do you think if the kid played for Marryville or Alcoa he'd get such little play in his recruitment? Typically kids like this go to the likes of UTC or lower and have a great career/fun. Not a knock on the kid but it is what it is. Nothing personal at all and I can't say this enough.

Ok so I take it all you’ve seen live on him is the state game. I respect what you’ve said and not at all taking anything personal, I disagree with you’re observations of this kid. There’s a lot you obviously don’t know concerning him and I’ll leave it at that. I’m sure you and some others will disagree that this kid would be great on any HS team at any level in the state. It’s on him or any other player for that matter to prove their value where ever they attend. No hard feelings, I just see this different than you and that’s ok.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

@GUNTERSVOL let me address this for the last time. I used Orleans Darkwa as an example. I never said this kid should or could go to Tulane. I also stated Orleans took the scholarship to Tulane over PWO or any color shirt from Kiff and company. In my examples of offers or schools i said would better suit the kid such as UTC level maybe MTSU. I also stated this is not from a fan's perspective but a person who has advised kids of what's the better decision. I Do Not know of the kid's family finances but free money and playing time are things you look at. As far as what a coach promises let me inform you that they ALL lie and make situations look like heaven on earth when there is no guarantee of anything once they get your signature. Again even @bigl3327 has explained there is no true value in PWO other than being a part of the team at practice. Kids want to play. Why waste years earnining something when you can take a scholarship from a school who truly wants or needs you? Its really common sense seriously.

I doubt ALL coaches lie anymore than ALL posters do. Are you saying if he took the PWO at UT that if it did not work out after a semester or yr he could not transfer down? I seriously doubt that. His risk would be low and he could at least take a shot at a dream IF IF IF that is one he had. They probably have been kicking around some options I bet.

To assume anyone’s analysis of a player is absolute, especially when the lower division is in the calculation is a bit much as well. I hope he makes the right decision for himself period.

 

[de1conley]

I doubt ALL coaches lie anymore than ALL posters do. Are you saying if he took the PWO at UT that if it did not work out after a semester or yr he could not transfer down? I seriously doubt that. His risk would be low and he could at least take a shot at a dream IF IF IF that is one he had. They probably have been kicking around some options I bet.

To assume anyone’s analysis of a player is absolute, especially when the lower division is in the calculation is a bit much as well. I hope he makes the right decision for himself period.

Look all a coach wants is a signature. That is part of how they make money. As far as posters lying don't see the correlation @GUNTERSVOL to what we're discussing. Again WHY waste a year to drop down later when that can hold you back due to having to learn a different offense and so on. You speaking as a fan and I'm speaking from a business perspective as far as what advice I'd gv the kid and his family.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

Look all a coach wants is a signature. That is part of how they make money. As far as posters lying don't see the correlation @GUNTERSVOL to what we're discussing. Again WHY waste a year to drop down later when that can hold you back due to having to learn a different offense and so on. You speaking as a fan and I'm speaking from a business perspective as far as what advice I'd gv the kid and his family.

Why would a coach lie to get a walkon, especially one whose support is near the stadium, and local radio? Is making a scholly opportunity conditional a lie? Not all coaches lack morals. The point above is ALL is a tough word to apply to AN:Y group or class of people. He might think what ever the cost differential is cheap to not have to wonder about what might have been at the highest level. You have any idea what a year at UT costs an instate kid maybe with the Hope Scholly? Bet they are doing the math. I hope they find it a bargain.

 

[LittleVol]

You sound silly and are trying to make it personal. Its not personal at all. Getting a PWO is nothing when a kid has real valid offers. I'm not speaking from a fan perspective as many of you are. I speak as a talent evaluator/ trainer a job in which I've done for over 15 yrs. I've trained many P5 guys as well as a gazillion FCS guys. I have 3 pros i trained personally. What you tk personal i clearly Do Not. I watched the leading rusher in Ensworth and the state go to a lower level Tulane and then go to the NY Giants and become their starter. The kid doesn't have to play at UT to be successful. The problem here is I can be objective and many of you only see Orange/White.

I agree with most of this.
But here is the thing about being preferred walk-on.
It gives him the chance to play right next to those scholarship guys and earn it.
Then he does become a SEC scholarship WR. Can't do that at Tulane.
He'll have Harrison Bailey or Brian Maurer throwing to him. Tulane won't have that. Talking about developing...who can prepare him better than T Martin??

Plus he bleeds orange. Even if he can't do it...he can stay and use the Hope Scholly or he can transfer. He could go JUCO and then earn more offers too... but he could sort all that out if he took PWO route first.
And just try it for a year, like Montgomery, and little Gardland.

 

[de1conley]

Why would a coach lie to get a walkon, especially one whose support is near the stadium, and local radio? Is making a scholly opportunity conditional a lie? Not all coaches lack morals. The point above is ALL is a tough word to apply to AN:Y group or class of people. He might think what ever the cost differential is cheap to not have to wonder about what might have been at the highest level. You have any idea what a year at UT costs an instate kid maybe with the Hope Scholly? Bet they are doing the math. I hope they find it a bargain.

Ok

 

[walkenvol]

Just my guess from reading the tea leaves.

CJP would sign over 25 this year if that were still an option. I think there’s a good chance CJP is looking for a couple of guys that he can persuade to PWO with the promise of a scholarship after the first year. Willis is one of those guys. JMG

 

[windrider]

After wandering thru the Darnell Washington thread in what seems like forever, this is my new favorite thread. Personally, I hope to see this kid in Orange.

 

[Rabid Vol]

Just my guess from reading the tea leaves.

CJP would sign over 25 this year if that were still an option. I think there’s a good chance CJP is looking for a couple of guys that he can persuade to PWO with the promise of a scholarship after the first year. Willis is one of those guys. JMG

There’s always the possibility he would be offered a blue shirt. CJP knows he needs to upgrade this roster and he needs quality numbers to create better competition to compete at a higher level in the SEC.