To Protect and to Serve II

#14,076
#14,076
Rickyvol77 said:
Is there anyone you don’t want to shoot and kill?
Doctors, police, game wardens, government officials, nurses, hospital admin?

You are insane
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I figured that would get you riled up.

But these guys are very lucky that they were not shot at installing these cameras on private property.
 
#14,077
#14,077
Rickyvol77 said:
You always assume they may have a firearm especially with what he was saying and doing. Also tasers only work from close range and he had too much clothing for the probes to attach successfully
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They were within 10-15 feet of the guy, not sure what he was wearing but looked like a light jacket and shirt. If tasers won't work in that environment why the hell do they even have them?
 
#14,078
#14,078
hog88 said:
It appears they were wrong in that also. The more you defend them the worse they look.
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Turns out he wanted to commit suicide by cop, they did the right thing by keeping him talking and trying to connect. Whatever he was going through was too heavy for him. The officers didn't do anything wrong here IMO.

We can play coulda shoulda woulda but that can be countered with sound reasoning.

You could be right, a well placed taser may have stopped this, or it may have just as easily escalated the situation resulting in his death because of the direct actions of law enforcement. They decided to play it safe and attempt to talk him down. I see nothing wrong with the way they handled it.
 
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#14,080
#14,080
hog88 said:
They were within 10-15 feet of the guy, not sure what he was wearing but looked like a light jacket and shirt. If tasers won't work in that environment why the hell do they even have them?
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I didn't catch the thickness of his jacket. But I will say I read a study a few years ago about tasers and I often wonder why they are used. It is roughly a 50 to 55% rate of success for most jurisdictions for a successful deployment. They are notoriously inaccurate/inneffective. In fact there are some reports that the newest models are less reliable.
 
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#14,082
#14,082
So, just looking at the first few minutes of this Nashville video, I don't think officers understand that saying we don't want to hurt you while pointing a gun at someone is not going to deescalate a situation. They hear what your mouth says, but your actions say something totally different.

The opening of the video states the officer came up on the guy because he was sitting on the side of the road and offered him a ride home or whatever. If that is the case, I don't have an issue with that. But I'm wondering how it escalated into the guy pulling out his box cutter. Also, if the guy wanted to use his gun on an officer, that would have been the time to do it... not flash a box cutter.

Lastly, I kind of feel bad for this officer based on what I've seen thus far. It is an indictment on the officer profession that even mentally unstable people can't even buy into their negotiating skills or trust cops when they say "we're here to help" or "you're not going to jail". Frankly, this victim showed a reasonable amount of fear inspite of what the cop was saying. A gun pointed at you tends to cancel out whatever words you may be saying.
 
#14,083
#14,083
Rickyvol77 said:
Yes threatening murder of people because you disagree with their actions is definitely normal thinking
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No, not disagreeing with their actions. I said they are very lucky they were not shot... and before that, I said if there were any justice, they would have been shot, meaning they were fortunate to not have gone on the wrong property.
 
#14,084
#14,084
Rasputin_Vol said:
So, just looking at the first few minutes of this Nashville video, I don't think officers understand that saying we don't want to hurt you while pointing a gun at someone is not going to deescalate a situation. They hear what your mouth says, but your actions say something totally different.

The opening of the video states the officer came up on the guy because he was sitting on the side of the road and offered him a ride home or whatever. If that is the case, I don't have an issue with that. But I'm wondering how it escalated into the guy pulling out his box cutter. Also, if the guy wanted to use his gun on an officer, that would have been the time to do it... not flash a box cutter.

Lastly, I kind of feel bad for this officer based on what I've seen thus far. It is an indictment on the officer profession that even mentally unstable people can't even buy into their negotiating skills or trust cops when they say "we're here to help" or "you're not going to jail". Frankly, this victim showed a reasonable amount of fear inspite of what the cop was saying. A gun pointed at you tends to cancel out whatever words you may be saying.
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I’ve successfully talked at least 12 people from killing themselves in similar situations. Some people want to die and don’t want to be saved. It’s not the police’s fault that this guy wanted to die and chose to take those actions
 
#14,085
#14,085
Rasputin_Vol said:
So, just looking at the first few minutes of this Nashville video, I don't think officers understand that saying we don't want to hurt you while pointing a gun at someone is not going to deescalate a situation. They hear what your mouth says, but your actions say something totally different.

The opening of the video states the officer came up on the guy because he was sitting on the side of the road and offered him a ride home or whatever. If that is the case, I don't have an issue with that. But I'm wondering how it escalated into the guy pulling out his box cutter. Also, if the guy wanted to use his gun on an officer, that would have been the time to do it... not flash a box cutter.

Lastly, I kind of feel bad for this officer based on what I've seen thus far. It is an indictment on the officer profession that even mentally unstable people can't even buy into their negotiating skills or trust cops when they say "we're here to help" or "you're not going to jail". Frankly, this victim showed a reasonable amount of fear inspite of what the cop was saying. A gun pointed at you tends to cancel out whatever words you may be saying.
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In thinking about this scenario the only thing I think that may have been done differently is if more of the officers would have retreated a short distance away and left a couple of officers to talk to him.

In a witness account I saw they had weapons drawn but not pointed on him initially until he motioned into his pocket with his other hand like he had another weapon.
 
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#14,086
#14,086
Rasputin_Vol said:
If there was any justice in this world, these game wardens and TWRA guys would be shot on the spot.

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The game wardens set up one of their “I’m a dumbass targets” in a field a couple miles down the road from our farm without talking to the landowner. The guy took it and as far as I know still has it today in spite of VADWRs threats.
 
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#14,087
#14,087
hog88 said:
They were within 10-15 feet of the guy, not sure what he was wearing but looked like a light jacket and shirt. If tasers won't work in that environment why the hell do they even have them?
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He had on a baggy jacket and baggy pants the odds of the taser being successful at that distance are slim. He had his hand in his jacket pocket for 30mins while they were talking to him, a reasonable person would believe he was trying to conceal something. He then pull said object as if it was a gun, officers then fired. You could argue that 9 officers surrounding him with their weapon’s drawn was too many but at the end of the day he decided he wanted to die and left the officers no choice.
 
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#14,088
#14,088
Blake25p said:
He had on a baggy jacket and baggy pants the odds of the taser being successful at that distance are slim. He had his hand in his jacket pocket for 30mins while they were talking to him, a reasonable person would believe he was trying to conceal something. He then pull said object as if it was a gun, officers then fired. You could argue that 9 officers surrounding him with their weapon’s drawn was too many but at the end of the day he decided he wanted to die and left the officers no choice.
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9 officers were surrounding him so couldn’t 1 or 2 try and tase him while the other 7 or 8 be ready to fire if he pulled a firearm?
 
#14,089
#14,089
hog88 said:
9 officers were surrounding him so couldn’t 1 or 2 try and tase him while the other 7 or 8 be ready to fire if he pulled a firearm?
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Man, it is very difficult to get cops to behave rationally on clear cut bad shoots. We can't reasonably expect them to make good decisions in a situation like this. And look at some of the responses in here... "The cops had no choice but to shoot".
 
#14,090
#14,090
Now the cops and the govt go after the Amish. I swear, these jackboots will pick on anybody. These guys can just raid your property and then just walk away?

ATF Raids Property of Amish Farmer | ZeroHedge

King has claimed that though he is a gun collector himself who occasionally sells weapons, offering little insight into the potential of a greater criminal conspiracy that may have prompted the raid. To his point, the ATF has not made any arrests nor filed any charges against King following the raid. The lack of charges is rather curious as King himself has stated that he has sold guns from his personal collection without any license.

Tips offered to local media in the Lancaster area suggested that King may have sold upwards of 600 weapons, a claim the farmer has succinctly dismissed. King added that he has not sold any pistols, as his collection is a procurement of rifles he has sold to other Amish in the community for the purpose of hunting. Being Amish himself, King stated he did not advertise nor conduct any sales online given the group's exclusionary beliefs on modern technology that would be necessary to do so.
 
#14,092
#14,092
NurseGoodVol said:
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Far too much traffic for a high speed chase.
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Moments like these are why I think a lot of cops get into the business for the adrenaline rush. High speed driving: check, Authoritarian control: check, Ability to kill someone: check, Being above the law: check, Being thought of as a hero: check.
 
#14,095
#14,095
We had 3 fentanyl OD in my hospital just last night. There’s a bad batch going around in the area. Last time this happened they had 17 ODs in 3 days. Oi.
 
#14,100
#14,100
tim said:
The go to…Every.Damn.Time

What about…. Prohibition….
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My bad, I fact checked myself. It wasn't the moonshiners fault that the liquor was poisoned... it was the do-gooder regulators and law enforcement. They went as far as to kill and injure people in order to save their lives.

Fact check: U.S. government poisoned some alcohol during Prohibition

Law enforcement and regulators also devised a new strategy for limiting the supply of alcohol at its source. Bootleg alcohol during the Prohibition era was overwhelmingly produced from distilled industrial alcohols. Officials reasoned that by mandating toxic additives into products which would be converted to bootleg alcohol, the supply could be effectively cut before consumption.
 
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