To Those already turning on CBJ...

#26
#26
CBJ was as good a hire as UT was going to get under the circumstances of repeated "turn downs (Gundy, Strong, etc.) Silver lining- he was probably the best of the so called candidates after all. You know what they say about lemons.
 
#27
#27
ReBellVol said:
Remind me what Saban's record was his first year at Bama? It takes time to rebuild someone else's mess.
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It was 7-6... and still an improvement over the previous year. But why pick out the exception to the rule??

Successful coaches almost always make an immediate improvement in the quality of play and win total of their new team.

Remind me what was the impact of.... Sumlin, Carroll, MeyerX4, Saban at LSU, Freeze, Malzahn, Franklin, Hoke, Kelly,....?
 
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#31
#31
BigOrangeTrain said:
There are some who will just not understand this concept.
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Understand the "concept" just fine. It just is not true. You guys want to pick out exceptions then pretend that proves your point... while ignoring the "rule".

According to some so called fans on VN, because Jones has not turned us into a top 10 team this season, he has underachieved and his ability has to be questioned.
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Really? Please name those fans. Having to lie to make a point... really doesn't help you make the point very much. No one has called for that. Some just have the honesty to say more could have been done with this roster. Well coached, it was a 7 win roster. Six wins will leave the issue open... VERY open. Five wins... you guys will still make excuses but it will be a significant underperformance by this staff.
 
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#32
#32
vol2002 said:
For those turning on CBJ, please flock to this thread and sound off on him. That way, I know who you are so I can put you on ignore.
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Well go ahead and put TusconVol and TGVol on that list...there hot hate garbage will make you want to punch the computer screen!
 
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#34
#34
LA Vol said:
# of people turning on CBJ - 3

# of threads about this - 300

# of times a day fans lambast other fans for not praising CBJ unconditionally - 3000

# of people sick of all the above - 300,000

# of days it will continue - infinity or until we win a NC, whichever comes first
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So true, nicely done
 
#36
#36
sjt18 said:
FWIW, Dooley's mantra in his year "zero" was that the culture had to change. Kiffin said the same thing.

So either it is something that was created by Fulmer and no one has been able to solve it... or it is nothing but coach speak for "blame the last guy".
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Hmmmm.... Interesting point sjt. I hadn't contemplated the lack of motivation and overall complacency in the program going back as far as Fulmer and never being corrected by the subsequent coaches. But actually the reason Fulmer was ultimately let go was because he couldn't get his teams, that were supposedly very talented, to play to a high level. Kiffin in for one year would have little or no impact on a long term change in culture. Dooley was a straight up loser mentally and definitely didn't instill any type of desire to play with effort. I believe I've just decided that in all likelihood this piss poor, losers mentality culture does go all the way back to Fulmer's waning years. So I think that being the case means it has been systemic and will be a bit more difficult to correct.

The good news is that we have a coach that really is an intense guy and once he gets his recruits (with speed and desire) we may actually get this ship going in the right direction. To counter your earliest rebuttal, all rebuilding jobs are different and I really do believe this is not your typical rebuilding job. Imagine if you will trying to rebuild perennial losers like the Detroit Lions and Oakland Raiders. It takes continual effort and is very hard to get rid of the stench of losing.
 
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#37
#37
jkleno said:
Why. Why. Oh Why, does someone always bring up Saban's 1st year? Ugh.
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It was a very popular crutch for Dooley support, also.

But hey, this time I have decided to take it. As long as Saban's second year record of 12-2 (8-0 SEC) comes right after it.
 
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#38
#38
sjt18 said:
Well coached, it was a 7 win roster. Six wins will leave the issue open... VERY open. Five wins... you guys will still make excuses but it will be a significant underperformance by this staff.
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i thought it was a 6 win season at the start of the year,till the season got close and i put on my orange tinted shades on

it is just there has been so many blow outs,that i didn't foresee happening,that is where the concerns are at,the lack of improvement for the Defense

and i would have loved to seen what Dooley would have done,if Wilcox and company had been retained
 
#39
#39
Do you really think Dooley was intentionally sabotaging the program? Just support Jones and quit sounding like Fuad the Bitter.He sounds like an uninformed idiot,right?
 
#40
#40
sjt18 said:
I am neither a troll nor a negavol. I am a hopeful person by nature. I regretably ignored too many failures of the last staff from the very start that should have been warning signs. This staff still has time to prove they belong in the Big Leagues. For the last 3 games, the D staff has not proven they're up to it. Hopefully that changes... because it MUST.
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Excellent response, sjt, to the OP's straw man fallacy. Of course no one is giving up on CBJ 10 games into his tenure here. However, I for one have come to believe that he will never have UT in say, the SECCG with his current staff, Jancek being the prime example.
 
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#41
#41
ImportedVoL said:
You can not expect ANYONE to change the culture in his first year at a program.

By culture I mean the mindset the Dooley instilled into our players over a 3 year span. The mindset of a quitter. Dooley spent all three of his years here doing his best to sabotage our program and convince our players and our fans that it is "OK" to lose some games. That some teams just out talent us.. they are faster then us...we just cant win. Once your down a few scores, just turn your belly up to the sky and hope the rub it, instead of kicking the krap out of you.

CBJ is just as pissed over these loses as any fan in volnation. He is just as disgusted with the outcome of those games. Just as enraged that some of our players decided to quit and mail in the game as soon as we were down.

BUT.. he cant change it in a single season, You can't do it with a single recruiting class. Not when it was pounded into us as a team and a fanbase for so many years.

I saw Jones recruits still giving it everything they had as freshmen, trying to turn it around and battle to come back.

While so called "upperclassmen" and "leaders" decided the game was over and stopped playing.."If they even started playing to begin with" The younger guys can't do it by themselves.

But he is changing the culture. It WILL take a couple recruiting classes. It WILL take a few Springs and Falls.

And WE as fans need to help him out, by showing these recruits that we are not going to quit on them just because it gets a little ruff. Just because we get a black eye, does not mean the fight is lost. We are going to be there to support them while they fight their way out of the abyss.

If we can do that, UT will be back within a couple years.. Teams will fear the Orange once again.

JUST PLEASE don't quit on our coaches and players already... LET US lead by example. Let us show these players that this is what we expect. A never ending fight... if we can do it as fans, then you can do it as players.

All you trolls and Negavols.. Flame away, I don't care.. I will still be here tomorrow, supporting our players and coaches, No matter what troll comments you make. No matter what synical smartarse posts you care to make.

I am a VFL... that L means LIFE, Not until we lose really bad
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I think you misinterpret many of us. I think we all hope Butch Jones succeeds. And, he deserves every chance. But, I've seen at many programs coaches who come in and talk a good game. They even recruit well and have great recruiting classes but the wins never seem to materialize. Some coaches are slow starters and then the program gets going. But, it seems to me the ones who usually turn programs around you can usually tell it almost right away. The thing that has me most concerned is how it seems like the team gave up on Jones the last three games. The special teams effort against Auburn was very disturbing. I think these next two games will tell a lot about what Coach Jones can do. This is a VOL message board not a Coach Jones RAH RAH board. Why all the hero worship for a particular coach? Do you get so easily seduced by the pep talk? Again, I hope he succeeds but I'm not emotionally invested in Coach Jones. I am emotionally invested in UT football. I think the leadership over there is terrible from the BOT on down. If Coach Jones succeeds bully for him. I'll continue to support the team and I won't speak out against the players but I'll wait for results on the field before I give my unconditional support to Coach Jones.
 
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#43
#43
sjt18 said:
Understand the "concept" just fine. It just is not true. You guys want to pick out exceptions then pretend that proves your point... while ignoring the "rule".



Really? Please name those fans. Having to lie to make a point... really doesn't help you make the point very much. No one has called for that. Some just have the honesty to say more could have been done with this roster. Well coached, it was a 7 win roster. Six wins will leave the issue open... VERY open. Five wins... you guys will still make excuses but it will be a significant underperformance by this staff.
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And you want everyone to believe because you say something is not true then it's not. Because you say something is the rule it is. You are not some kind of an authority whose words and theories should be considered law. You're just another person who likes CF and has opinions like the rest of us on here.

Your second paragraph says it all. So more could have been done with this roster? I would ask for proof of our statement ut you cannot provide any. You like to pretend that you are one of those that's not afraid to say what you think is the truth. That is a load of BS. Coming up with a hypothetical that this team would have more wins if it were coached better is a pathetic attempt to inflate your ego. If all did was offer constructive criticism, then there would be no problem. But you don't. You just say people are making excuses for why the team has played badly recently. We look at the situation as a whole and use facts to explain why the team has been faltering. You cherry pick what you want to use for your ignorant posts.

BTW I didn't call you out and I didn't make up any lies.
 
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#45
#45
LA Vol said:
# of people turning on CBJ - 3

# of threads about this - 300

# of times a day fans lambast other fans for not praising CBJ unconditionally - 3000

# of people sick of all the above - 300,000

# of days it will continue - infinity or until we win a NC, whichever comes first
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:good!:
 
#46
#46
SJT has listed the one year turnarounds.

Saban, Spurrier, Richt all won the SEC in year two.
 
#47
#47
sjt18 said:
I AM very concerned when the team isn't even competitive with teams like Mizzou and Auburn. Neither of those programs are far if any ahead of UT in talent right now. One of them also has a new coach.
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Recruiting Rankings per Rivals:
2010--AU #4 UT #9 MU #21
2011--AU #7 UT #13 MU #48
2012--AU #10 UT #17 MU #31
2013--AU #8 UT #21 MU #41

So Auburn does have the better talent and Pinkel is just a genious? :dunno:
 
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#48
#48
LA Vol said:
# of people turning on CBJ - 3

# of threads about this - 300

# of times a day fans lambast other fans for not praising CBJ unconditionally - 3000

# of people sick of all the above - 300,000

# of days it will continue - infinity or until we win a NC, whichever comes first
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Put me in this category, please.:)
 
#49
#49
jkleno said:
2007 took over job.
2009 National champs

Not a good reply. Actually horrible comparison.
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Don't you need the two years?....just for comparison sake?...or is Butch supposed to make this year worth two?...should have paid more attention in physics
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#50
#50
DERELICK_MY_VOLS said:
Recruiting Rankings per Rivals:
2010--AU #4 UT #9 MU #21
2011--AU #7 UT #13 MU #48
2012--AU #10 UT #17 MU #31
2013--AU #8 UT #21 MU #41

So Auburn does have the better talent and Pinkel is just a genious? :dunno:
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Let's assume that Rivals has a perfect ranking system (bad assumption). It would still not make any sense to use these rankings to judge coaching prowess. You do realize that more than half of the Rivals 4 and 5 star talent of Tennessee's upperclassmen are no longer on the team. So, I would suggest that an evaluation of Butch's coaching abilities shouldn't be made based upon players who aren't there.

How different would this season be if Bray, Hunter, and Patterson weren't playing their would-be senior season in the NFL?
 
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