To Those already turning on CBJ...

[jkleno]

Don't you need the two years?....just for comparison sake?...or is Butch supposed to make this year worth two?...should have paid more attention in physics
Posted via VolNation Mobile

I may have misspoke or better yet mistyped. Everyone by now knows that Saban lost to Monroe his first year. Then year 3 he wins the national championship. It is too much to put on CBJ. It will not happen at UT in year 3. Let's just beat Vandy- that should be our focus. And I hate when posters call them "candy" or Vandy High. They kicked our tail last year and technically have bragging rights. Tradition, history, in 1951...., that is bad karma. Let's respect our competition and beat them on the field. Then we can trash them in the Vol forum.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

2007 took over job.
2009 National champs

Not a good reply. Actually horrible comparison.

Very easy to build a national championship team when you cheat heavily.

 

[fade route]

I don't think most people are turning on BJ. I think people just post things in the aftermath of a bad loss that they don't really mean. Sometimes I think that during the season, the board should just shut down from Saturday til about Tuesday after a loss.

 

[norriscraftbasser]

I may have misspoke or better yet mistyped. Everyone by now knows that Saban lost to Monroe his first year. Then year 3 he wins the national championship. It is too much to put on CBJ. It will not happen at UT in year 3. Let's just beat Vandy- that should be our focus. And I hate when posters call them "candy" or Vandy High. They kicked our tail last year and technically have bragging rights. Tradition, history, in 1951...., that is bad karma. Let's respect our competition and beat them on the field. Then we can trash them in the Vol forum.

If we lose to Vandy it will be a mess in here.

 

[ImportedVoL]

[I'm not turning on him but will answer some of your points anyway. I HAVE criticized what look like some coaching shortcomings. I HAVE said and fully believe that they are not getting the maximum potential out of the current roster. This is based on a somewhat subjective but also somewhat objective opinion about the available talent. It is not "great". But it was a 7 win roster. Before you argue, ask yourself if Jones had a do-over could he have beaten UGA and UF?]

Could he beat them as their teams stand now? Yes I believe he could... Both of those teams were top 10 BEFORE UT went in and injured key players on their team and made them what they are now.. did we win those games? NO, but we did cost both of those teams their seasons, and opened them up for others to come along and beat them when otherwise they would not have, if they played them at full strength... So your argument is flawed trying to compare what they are now, from when we played them.

[I AM very concerned when the team isn't even competitive with teams like Mizzou and Auburn. Neither of those programs are far if any ahead of UT in talent right now. One of them also has a new coach. Yes you can. Zook to Meyer was immediate. Nutt to Freeze was immediate. Majors to Fulmer was immediate. Sherman to Sumlin was immediate. Chizk to Malzahn was immediate. Dinardo to Saban was immediate.]

None of your examples did those coaches have a worse team and a harder schedule then what faced UT this year. We have/had one of the toughest schedules in history.. let alone any of the teams you mentioned here..

The reason we were not competitive with either of those teams go back to my original point.. In that culture of quitting has been engraved into these players for the last 3 years..A.K.A The Doofus Years

[When a great coach replaces a dud... more often than not their impact on the culture is immediate and profound.] Thats not a culture change.. that is showing a team they can win.. guess what, that happened this year! lest we forget beating a top10/11 team for the first time since Phulmer.

[If you believe any of this... you need help. Dooley did give up. He lost hope. By mid-season last year he had quit recruiting and pretty much quit coaching. I think he wanted out.

But he did not spend 3 years intentionally trying to sabotage the program or anything of the sort. If rumors are to be believed, he asked out after the '11 debacle and Hart convinced him to try one more season.]

I love when people have no actual points to stand on so they attack the poster directly.. I need help?, Why because I'm not a pessimist trying to pretend like I know better then people doing this their entire lives and who get paid millions to do it.. But you know better behind your keyboard... And you say I need help..LMAO

[ Fan base? You were wrong about a great coach's ability to change a team but now you think it matters what the fan base is like? You are reaching badly.]

What a fanbase does has a huge impact on a team.. if you ever played any kind of competitive teambased sport in your life you would understand this.. Why do you think their is such a thing as home field advantage? People cheering you on, gives you energy.. gets the adrenaline pumping.. motivates you. People booing and jeering you does the exact opposite. And No its not just what happens on gameday in the stadium. It is how your fans are towards you everyday.. I feel sorry for you to know you have never felt the power of having a crowd of people behind you cheering, and know how much POWER that gives to a person.

It is one of the best feelings in the world, and can be more powerful then even the strongest drugs man can come up with.

[If you saw that then Jones did right? So why didn't he yank the upperclassmen?] Dont have enough to replace them. or do you not know our roster well enough to understand the depth issues we face every game?

[My only complaint with Jones personally is that he has not done just that. The only upperclassman I know of who has lost his job is Worley... and he deserved it less than several others that continue to start.] see above response.. when we have replacements.. they will be playing.

[ I hope so... but you KNOW this how? It ain't from results on the field. I ain't from consistent effort. It ain't from great defensive schemes and coaching.] your blowing smoke here about something you have absolutely ZERO personal knowledge about.

[Few if any have "quit". That is nothing more than a strawman you and folks like you try to throw up because you can't answer some of the criticisms intelligently.] Unfortunately I do know the look of a player who has stopped giving his all and is just going through the motions trying to get the current game to be over with. And that is exactly what happened in the past few games.

[I have praised and criticized this staff. Never have I said Jones needs to be fired or anyone else right now. I have concerns about the quality of the defensive staff... but I hope you don't think my expressing them here will impact recruits more than uncompetitive efforts on the field. What do you think Jones spends more time trying to explain to these recruits.... performance on the field or what some fan says on a chat board? ] If you think my post had anything at all to do with posts questioning certain calls, or people expressing concern over certain aspects of the game.. you need to take an english course and read it again. It has to do with those already questioning on whether CBJ is the "ONE" to bring us back.. on the people making idiotic posts on "IF Kiffin was still here we would be winning 9-10 games".. essentially having already given up on the current staff/players..

Recruits do see how some fans turn so quickly, all you need to do to KNOW this is true.. Is go take a look at these recruits twitter accounts and see the tweets they themselves put out.

[ So you have to close your eyes and sing kumbaya in order to support them? I don't think criticizing sub-par coaching is a lack of support or fan caring. This D staff needs to show improvement and that right quick or the least of UT's recruiting problems are what a few fans are saying here.]

I don't think singing kumbaya has ever been posted as to how we should be acting. But neither is it right to criticize ... or say SUB-PAR coaching when you have zero experience with what these coaches are having to deal with... These recruits can see that we are only missing a few key pieces to have this completely turned around, and they can be that key piece. Which is one of the reasons our class is doing so well this year. But like I said previously.. they do express concerns over how fast "some" of our fans seem to be turning on our coach who has given us our best win in 7-8 years and our best recruiting class in longer then that.. over a couple games in which, granted we should have preformed better then what we did, but we were out talented in "almost" every position on the field.



I am neither a troll nor a negavol. I am a hopeful person by nature. I regretably ignored too many failures of the last staff from the very start that should have been warning signs. This staff still has time to prove they belong in the Big Leagues. For the last 3 games, the D staff has not proven they're up to it. Hopefully that changes... because it MUST.]

please refrain from drawing any parallel to the previous staff with this one... this staff has us improving every game, and once again proved they can get us back on top. we just need more consistency from our players which will come with experience and time with the current staff. The last staff had us getting worse on a daily basis.. we would start out looking like superstars at the start of the year, and Doofus would slowly wear them down till by the end of the year we would be losing to kentucky...not beating the #11 conference opponent.

Huge difference... just sayin

 

[LocoVol]

Excellent response, sjt, to the OP's straw man fallacy. Of course no one is giving up on CBJ 10 games into his tenure here. However, I for one have come to believe that he will never have UT in say, the SECCG with his current staff, Jancek being the prime example.

:good!: spot on.

sjt has pretty much owned this thread. All I'd like to see is a better DC, a special teams coach and maybe someone who can coach qbs.

 

[tnvols72]

I don't think people questions BJ , I think they question the so called best coaching staff in the country. I think BJ is the right man for the job but he could of surrounded himself around better coaches. I just cant believe that the best coaching staff in the country has been hid away in Ciny. for 3 years and nobody never found them. People that thinks the trio of Jancek and Martinez is going to make this Defense great to compete in the SEC are setting themselves up for a big disappointment. They got ran off at Ga for the exact same thing that is happening to Tn right now. Don't try to say wait until they get their players in here because its not going to matter. They had their players in place at UGA and they still got ran up and down the field and still got fired. I have not seen too many people turning on BJ but seen plenty questioning the rest of them. I bet most that are defending this entire staff are the same ones that thought Dooley needed another year.

 

[Tenacguy50]

Man been doing this now for 43 years if you can win 8 or 9 then every now and then play for it all be happy, this is the SEC we are not going to win 10 games every year go back the last 70 years if we can stay at 8 or 9 and win the EAST a couple of times every few years be tickled to death its going to get harder and harder in the SEC for the other teams.

FYP in BOLD... :hi:

 

[BanditVol]

@OP...you make an interesting point.

Those complaining constantly that the team has quit and then blaming the coaches in year one rebuilding of what is really close to the worst stretches in Tennessee football are themselves quitters as fans!

It will take patience and fortitude from fans to weather this low point in Vol history as well. Some lack the balls and/or backbone to get through it, apparently. lol:

 

[onevol74]

If what the OP says is true,

While so called "upperclassmen" and "leaders" decided the game was over and stopped playing.."If they even started playing to begin with" The younger guys can't do it by themselves.

Butch needs to politely tell the "upperclassmen" and "leaders," thank you for your contribution to Tennessee Football and sat them on the bench for the rest of their careers. As a fan I have more issues with a coach that allows players to control the team with negative attitudes than a coach who rewards the young kids for setting a higher level of performance. I would rather watch a group of kids showing effort than a bunch of dunces repeating illegal procedure penalties time after time.

 

[ReBellVol]

2007 took over job.
2009 National champs

Not a good reply. Actually horrible comparison.

So Jones still has a chance to go 7-6 (Saban's record year one) this year and could have us competing for an SEC Championship by 2015, but you'd rather bust his balls than wait to see what happens? I'm just saying give the guy some time to make adjustments to make the team better. Do I think we turn around as fast as Bama? No, but I do expect to see us making major improvements.

 

[onevol74]

Butch needs 3 years to prove himself but at this point he is just one game ahead of UT's most incompetent coach ever, Derek Dooley. And that is the USC victory.

After the last 3 blowouts there is very little difference between him and Dooley, but he does have that one game.

 

[CountVolcula]

I think you misinterpret many of us. I think we all hope Butch Jones succeeds. And, he deserves every chance. But, I've seen at many programs coaches who come in and talk a good game. They even recruit well and have great recruiting classes but the wins never seem to materialize. Some coaches are slow starters and then the program gets going. But, it seems to me the ones who usually turn programs around you can usually tell it almost right away. The thing that has me most concerned is how it seems like the team gave up on Jones the last three games. The special teams effort against Auburn was very disturbing. I think these next two games will tell a lot about what Coach Jones can do. This is a VOL message board not a Coach Jones RAH RAH board. Why all the hero worship for a particular coach? Do you get so easily seduced by the pep talk? Again, I hope he succeeds but I'm not emotionally invested in Coach Jones. I am emotionally invested in UT football. I think the leadership over there is terrible from the BOT on down. If Coach Jones succeeds bully for him. I'll continue to support the team and I won't speak out against the players but I'll wait for results on the field before I give my unconditional support to Coach Jones.

Ron Zook comes to mind when talking about being a great recruiter and subpar HC

 

[Slydell]

Still growing the bamboo. Just different words.

 

[Vol737]

Guys/Gals, we are not even close to talking apples to apples concerning offense. We lost a TON of offensive talent from last year. I'm not happy either W/L record. Sure I wanted better but I would not expect much more than .500 next year either. Year 3 should be better. If you look at the big picture and what CBJ stepped into, I think it's doing this program a disservice if he doesn't get four years.

 

[Vol Fan in Fla]

You can not expect ANYONE to change the culture in his first year at a program.

By culture I mean the mindset the Dooley instilled into our players over a 3 year span. The mindset of a quitter. Dooley spent all three of his years here doing his best to sabotage our program and convince our players and our fans that it is "OK" to lose some games. That some teams just out talent us.. they are faster then us...we just cant win. Once your down a few scores, just turn your belly up to the sky and hope the rub it, instead of kicking the krap out of you.

CBJ is just as pissed over these loses as any fan in volnation. He is just as disgusted with the outcome of those games. Just as enraged that some of our players decided to quit and mail in the game as soon as we were down.

BUT.. he cant change it in a single season, You can't do it with a single recruiting class. Not when it was pounded into us as a team and a fanbase for so many years.

I saw Jones recruits still giving it everything they had as freshmen, trying to turn it around and battle to come back.

While so called "upperclassmen" and "leaders" decided the game was over and stopped playing.."If they even started playing to begin with" The younger guys can't do it by themselves.

But he is changing the culture. It WILL take a couple recruiting classes. It WILL take a few Springs and Falls.

And WE as fans need to help him out, by showing these recruits that we are not going to quit on them just because it gets a little ruff. Just because we get a black eye, does not mean the fight is lost. We are going to be there to support them while they fight their way out of the abyss.

If we can do that, UT will be back within a couple years.. Teams will fear the Orange once again.

JUST PLEASE don't quit on our coaches and players already... LET US lead by example. Let us show these players that this is what we expect. A never ending fight... if we can do it as fans, then you can do it as players.

All you trolls and Negavols.. Flame away, I don't care.. I will still be here tomorrow, supporting our players and coaches, No matter what troll comments you make. No matter what synical smartarse posts you care to make.

I am a VFL... that L means LIFE, Not until we lose really bad

+1

 

[jkleno]

Very easy to build a national championship team when you cheat heavily.

Good one!!!

 

[JAL]

I recently moved to Denver. The few people who I have met that are knowledgeable about college football here have expressed to me that they believe Tennessee is on the verge of something special. These people, primarily, are from the south and remember the days when Tennessee was a powerhouse. College football is a revolving door. No one stays on top forever. Bama was nothing between Stallings and Saban. Tennessee's time is coming...AGAIN!!

 

[Slydell]

Sunshine pumpers maybe.

 

[jkleno]

So Jones still has a chance to go 7-6 (Saban's record year one) this year and could have us competing for an SEC Championship by 2015, but you'd rather bust his balls than wait to see what happens? I'm just saying give the guy some time to make adjustments to make the team better. Do I think we turn around as fast as Bama? No, but I do expect to see us making major improvements.

What are you talking about???? I have been supporting CBJ. I stated that I hate the comparison's to Saban. CBJ will just fall short and I don't think he deserves that. I haven't said anything derogatory toward CBJ. I am not sure about your post ReBellVol.

 

[JAL]

Sunshine pumpers maybe.

Not sunshine pumpers at all!

 

[#16s Dad]

Butch needs 3 years to prove himself but at this point he is just one game ahead of UT's most incompetent coach ever, Derek Dooley. And that is the USC victory.

After the last 3 blowouts there is very little difference between him and Dooley, but he does have that one game.

A fair post but let me point out CD had time to do it and could not get it done in 3 years.

CBJ has got it done half way through year 1.

We need depth all around and it's on the way.

We need speed but you cant coach it so we gota recruit it again it's on the way.

We need our players to have confidence, after what the upper classman have been through how could they.

We need players with heart to step up and lead again cant coach it.

Bottom line is we have to yet again rebuild from the ground up and thats gona take time.

I for one am all in behind CBJ and the team.

When they lose yeah it sucks but I see where it's going Tennessee is on the way back.

I'v always been a Vol fan and always will be through good time and bad till death do us part.

Win or lose I'll still say GO VOLS :td:

A true fan follows every game regardless of the record and is optimistic no matter how bad the situation gets. You must realize that being a fan sometimes means you put your logic aside to truly accept a team.

So if you are emotionally attached to your team and you embrace it instead of reject it then you are in fact a true fan.

 

[VOLgirl93]

I'm pretty sure Dooley is the anti-vol

 

[JAL]

Let's put it this way...if you're already turning on Butch, then you don't what the hell you are talking about.

 

[Weezer]

[I'm not turning on him but will answer some of your points anyway. I HAVE criticized what look like some coaching shortcomings. I HAVE said and fully believe that they are not getting the maximum potential out of the current roster. This is based on a somewhat subjective but also somewhat objective opinion about the available talent. It is not "great". But it was a 7 win roster. Before you argue, ask yourself if Jones had a do-over could he have beaten UGA and UF?]

Could he beat them as their teams stand now? Yes I believe he could... Both of those teams were top 10 BEFORE UT went in and injured key players on their team and made them what they are now.. did we win those games? NO, but we did cost both of those teams their seasons, and opened them up for others to come along and beat them when otherwise they would not have, if they played them at full strength... So your argument is flawed trying to compare what they are now, from when we played them.

[I AM very concerned when the team isn't even competitive with teams like Mizzou and Auburn. Neither of those programs are far if any ahead of UT in talent right now. One of them also has a new coach. Yes you can. Zook to Meyer was immediate. Nutt to Freeze was immediate. Majors to Fulmer was immediate. Sherman to Sumlin was immediate. Chizk to Malzahn was immediate. Dinardo to Saban was immediate.]

None of your examples did those coaches have a worse team and a harder schedule then what faced UT this year. We have/had one of the toughest schedules in history.. let alone any of the teams you mentioned here..

The reason we were not competitive with either of those teams go back to my original point.. In that culture of quitting has been engraved into these players for the last 3 years..A.K.A The Doofus Years

[When a great coach replaces a dud... more often than not their impact on the culture is immediate and profound.] Thats not a culture change.. that is showing a team they can win.. guess what, that happened this year! lest we forget beating a top10/11 team for the first time since Phulmer.

[If you believe any of this... you need help. Dooley did give up. He lost hope. By mid-season last year he had quit recruiting and pretty much quit coaching. I think he wanted out.

But he did not spend 3 years intentionally trying to sabotage the program or anything of the sort. If rumors are to be believed, he asked out after the '11 debacle and Hart convinced him to try one more season.]

I love when people have no actual points to stand on so they attack the poster directly.. I need help?, Why because I'm not a pessimist trying to pretend like I know better then people doing this their entire lives and who get paid millions to do it.. But you know better behind your keyboard... And you say I need help..LMAO

[ Fan base? You were wrong about a great coach's ability to change a team but now you think it matters what the fan base is like? You are reaching badly.]

What a fanbase does has a huge impact on a team.. if you ever played any kind of competitive teambased sport in your life you would understand this.. Why do you think their is such a thing as home field advantage? People cheering you on, gives you energy.. gets the adrenaline pumping.. motivates you. People booing and jeering you does the exact opposite. And No its not just what happens on gameday in the stadium. It is how your fans are towards you everyday.. I feel sorry for you to know you have never felt the power of having a crowd of people behind you cheering, and know how much POWER that gives to a person.

It is one of the best feelings in the world, and can be more powerful then even the strongest drugs man can come up with.

[If you saw that then Jones did right? So why didn't he yank the upperclassmen?] Dont have enough to replace them. or do you not know our roster well enough to understand the depth issues we face every game?

[My only complaint with Jones personally is that he has not done just that. The only upperclassman I know of who has lost his job is Worley... and he deserved it less than several others that continue to start.] see above response.. when we have replacements.. they will be playing.

[ I hope so... but you KNOW this how? It ain't from results on the field. I ain't from consistent effort. It ain't from great defensive schemes and coaching.] your blowing smoke here about something you have absolutely ZERO personal knowledge about.

[Few if any have "quit". That is nothing more than a strawman you and folks like you try to throw up because you can't answer some of the criticisms intelligently.] Unfortunately I do know the look of a player who has stopped giving his all and is just going through the motions trying to get the current game to be over with. And that is exactly what happened in the past few games.

[I have praised and criticized this staff. Never have I said Jones needs to be fired or anyone else right now. I have concerns about the quality of the defensive staff... but I hope you don't think my expressing them here will impact recruits more than uncompetitive efforts on the field. What do you think Jones spends more time trying to explain to these recruits.... performance on the field or what some fan says on a chat board? ] If you think my post had anything at all to do with posts questioning certain calls, or people expressing concern over certain aspects of the game.. you need to take an english course and read it again. It has to do with those already questioning on whether CBJ is the "ONE" to bring us back.. on the people making idiotic posts on "IF Kiffin was still here we would be winning 9-10 games".. essentially having already given up on the current staff/players..

Recruits do see how some fans turn so quickly, all you need to do to KNOW this is true.. Is go take a look at these recruits twitter accounts and see the tweets they themselves put out.

[ So you have to close your eyes and sing kumbaya in order to support them? I don't think criticizing sub-par coaching is a lack of support or fan caring. This D staff needs to show improvement and that right quick or the least of UT's recruiting problems are what a few fans are saying here.]

I don't think singing kumbaya has ever been posted as to how we should be acting. But neither is it right to criticize ... or say SUB-PAR coaching when you have zero experience with what these coaches are having to deal with... These recruits can see that we are only missing a few key pieces to have this completely turned around, and they can be that key piece. Which is one of the reasons our class is doing so well this year. But like I said previously.. they do express concerns over how fast "some" of our fans seem to be turning on our coach who has given us our best win in 7-8 years and our best recruiting class in longer then that.. over a couple games in which, granted we should have preformed better then what we did, but we were out talented in "almost" every position on the field.



I am neither a troll nor a negavol. I am a hopeful person by nature. I regretably ignored too many failures of the last staff from the very start that should have been warning signs. This staff still has time to prove they belong in the Big Leagues. For the last 3 games, the D staff has not proven they're up to it. Hopefully that changes... because it MUST.]

please refrain from drawing any parallel to the previous staff with this one... this staff has us improving every game, and once again proved they can get us back on top. we just need more consistency from our players which will come with experience and time with the current staff. The last staff had us getting worse on a daily basis.. we would start out looking like superstars at the start of the year, and Doofus would slowly wear them down till by the end of the year we would be losing to kentucky...not beating the #11 conference opponent.

Huge difference... just sayin

You contradict yourself within this post. Players are quitting, yet this staff has us improving every game? That's not improvement. If the coach felt any player quit, why didn't he pull him out of the game? Playing a walk-on giving 100% is better than playing a talent who's already given up.