To Those already turning on CBJ...

#126
#126
Crazy Ivan said:
# of people turning on CBJ - a bunch, based on the # of threads started following the first loss

# of threads about this - a bunch

# of times a day fans lambast other fans for praising CBJ unconditionally - a bunch

# of people sick of all the above - a bunch

# of days it will continue - infinity or until we win a NC, whichever comes first (and then it wil start over again ad nauseum starting with Butch's first loss followiing the NC).
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# of times blown out this season- a bunch

# of yards given up to everyone- a bunch

# of excuses- a bunch

# of teams that get better quickly- a bunch


This can go either way...
 
#128
#128
tennrich1 said:
You lost me when you thought Missouri and auburn were only same level of talent as we are....,,, they have team speed .....we do not and of story.... Until we admit this and get speed in the right positions we will be no better.... just hold on for Pete's sake.... Speed is on the way...,SIGH!!!!!!
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Why is it that we had enough team speed to play with Georgia and Georgia has enough team speed to play with Auburn but we didn't have enough team speed to play with Auburn? And, why can Georgia special teams cover punts and kickoffs against Auburn but we couldn't?
 
#132
#132
Sandvol said:
Is it the spontaneity that keeps you coming back?
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I had this idea that was going to bump all the threads from this week that are nearly identical to this one, but it probably wouldn't go over well with the mods. It would also take up like half of the first page. I'll let it go now.
 
#133
#133
Sandvol said:
Why is it that we had enough team speed to play with Georgia and Georgia has enough team speed to play with Auburn but we didn't have enough team speed to play with Auburn? And, why can Georgia special teams cover punts and kickoffs against Auburn but we couldn't?
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Let's see Georgia's football program has been very stable for quite a few years. Grantham has been there for 3 years and obviously knows how to coach up talent. Georgia has been getting great recruiting classes, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Stop acting like we have been getting defensive talent like Georgia has. Jancek is our third DC in 3 years. Hard to build any kind continuity and stability when you're switching coaches every year.
 
#135
#135
BigOrangeTrain said:
Let's see Georgia's football program has been very stable for quite a few years. Grantham has been there for 3 years and obviously knows how to coach up talent. Georgia has been getting great recruiting classes, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Stop acting like we have been getting defensive talent like Georgia has. Jancek is our third DC in 3 years. Hard to build any kind continuity and stability when you're switching coaches every year.
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But according to most on here UGA underperformes every year.
 
#137
#137
LA Vol said:
# of people turning on CBJ - 3

# of threads about this - 300

# of times a day fans lambast other fans for not praising CBJ unconditionally - 3000

# of people sick of all the above - 300,000

# of days it will continue - infinity or until we win a NC, whichever comes first
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Pretty accurate assessment of the situation.
 
#138
#138
T2P_Priceless said:
Anyway, I left TN to join the AF back in 94 and I'm still serving. The reason I tell you this is because I would like to make a comparison of Tennessee football to fighter pilots, bear with me.

One of the biggest reasons that our AF is the best in the world comes down to this: criticizing and pointing out flaws. No kidding, it really is the secret.

After every mission, whether training or real world we conduct a debrief. In this debrief we take off our rank and sit around pointing out mistakes and trying to find the root cause, ultimately coming up with "instructional fixes" and lessons learned.

The real trick to this and why we continue to get better is because it started years ago with big mistakes, then slowly it began to narrow down into smaller mistakes, until now we're calling a pilot out for missing his drop by 1 sec. Which btw, can cause it to be off by miles. Why were you off? Fill in the blank... Well why did that happen? Fill in the blank... and so on until we find the root cause.

So what does this have to do with UT football and this thread. Well I think it's important for not only the coaches to continually improve until they're making small corrections. But it's also important for the fans to show their enthusiasm for improvement. I think the fans keep pressure on the coaches, the team, and the administration to get better. I mean I want a coach that internally wants to always get better and doesn't need outside pressure but I also think it's important for our fans to give it within reason to "push" them to get better or force their hand if they don't.

Just my 2c. :salute:
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In order to make a proper review, you have to Know all the facts and you have know what the expected end result will be based on the play.

Fans watching the game have know idea without knowing all the facts. The coaches do.

It is easy to state the player was out of position or is it without knowing the defense, poor tackling techniques or the RB hit the wrong hole, or the QB overthrew the receiver without knowing the execution or called play.

What fans don't know, is did the WR run the wrong route or did the QB throw it too the wrong place, call an audible or whatever.

How you can critique and review without all the facts? You can't without direct feedback from the players.

A bad punt or blocked punt. Did someone on the line miss a block or not or did the punter hold the ball to long.

I am sure that CBJ is doing a review after each game, W or L. He knows all the facts and what happened on the play and every player on the team is giving feedback.

Fans do this in a huge vacuum without knowing the play calls and without any feedback from the players 99% of the time. Fans based their review on assumptions or what they think and not the facts.

Debriefs are great for improvement....but Fans sitting on message boards critiquing without the whole picture have no clue.

If we knew the play call, the execution sequence, and the expected end result of one play then we could call out the coaches/players everyday.

Quite simply, We Don't.

Fighter Pilots don't have fans sitting around and calling them out and if they did the fans would not know a mistake occurred until the plane crashed into the ground.

Coaches like AF leaders do Debriefs not fans or spouses

Thank you for your service, enjoy it, stay in as long as you can because the Civilian world sucks most of the time.

The only thing a Fan has to go on is the whole team results and facts. We lost 3 games in a row 2 away 1 at home. The expected result end result was 0-3, we went 0-3.

This team will improve without the fans input or their critiques. I would be willing to bet 90% myself included didn't know that Ferguson was injured when he was.

If I am a coach, I would tell the players to stay off the message boards because the fans don't know anything.
 
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#139
#139
This would ALL be mute if Butch woukd have done just two things. One, beaten Georgia and two played ALOT more conpetatively against the major teams instead of lopsided blowouts!
 
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#140
#140
knoxvols11 said:
This would ALL be mute if Butch woukd have done just two things. One, beaten Georgia and two played ALOT more conpetatively against the major teams instead of lopsided blowouts!
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what number was Butch...I didn't realize he had played a down...or fumbled at the goal line...
 
#142
#142
To Imported:

Yes, you can expect a coach to change the culture IMMEDIATELY, with NO EXCUSES. It has been done many times, many places. Recent examples:

Stanford under Jim Harbaugh
Ole Miss under Hugh Freeze
Vandy under James Franklin.
Auburn under Gus Malzahn.
UCLA under Jim Mora.
Michigan under Brady Hoke.
Arkansas under Bobby Petrino.

All of these coaches inspired their programs to show INSTANT noticeable significant improvement from where the program was before they got there. Not all of these programs had instant major success, but they did have an instant culture change of significant improvement that showed up on the field from the very get-go.

We haven't gotten that this year from Butch and Co. Yes, Butch is recruiting extremely well, and saying all the right things, and yes he deserves more time. However, we the fan base, had a right to expect more improvement and competitiveness on the field than what Butch and Co. have been able to get out of Team 117. There is no way to sugar coat it or excuse it. We should have seen more improvement (not wins necessarily, but competitive improvement) than we did this year.
 
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#143
#143
Go look up Akansas' yearly records and then talk to me again about this "immediate" impact Bobby Petrino had. He was successful, but it took until year 3 to get things rolling compared to where Houston Nutt had the program.
 
#145
#145
GAVol said:
Go look up Akansas' yearly records and then talk to me again about this "immediate" impact Bobby Petrino had.
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OK, but the point is still made against the statement of the OP. You can expect an IMMEDIATE culture change to a winning culture with a proper coaching change. In fact, there is NO EXCUSE not to get it.

We should have gotten at least some noticeable improvement on the field this year over what we had under Doofus, but we didn't. On other aspects of the program, like recruiting, and public relations, Butch is far exceeding expectations and the previous regime, but on the field, he disappointed this year, and there is no way around that fact.

Most here will excuse it, because he is likeable and is recruiting so well, but I say NO EXCUSES are acceptable, ever. Butch needs to hear that he and his so called, "Best staff in America", need to perform better and get the team to overachieve, not underacheive, at every step in this "Brick by Brick" process, not just a few years from now. He also needs to hear, that we don't give a crap about his loyalty to his friends on the coaching staff, but that all that matters is results, if he wants to keep this job.
 
#146
#146
87Vol said:
OK, but the point is still made against the statement of the OP. You can expect an IMMEDIATE culture change to a winning culture with a proper coaching change. In fact, there is NO EXCUSE not to get it.

.
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None of the cultures at the programs you named were as damaged as ours after 3 coaches in 5 years except for maybe Vandy whose "success" is all relative. I can't reiterate the impact of a coaching change on attrition and player psyche - much less doing it 3 times in 4 years. General Neyland himself would need time to turn this around.
 
#147
#147
GAVol said:
None of the cultures at the programs you named were as damaged as ours after 3 coaches in 5 years except for maybe Vandy whose "success" is all relative. I can't reiterate the impact of a coaching change on attrition and player psyche - much less doing it 3 times in 4 years. General Neyland himself would need time to turn this around.
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I'm not saying that time isn't needed to turn things around to where we are in the Top Tier of the SEC again. Of course time is needed, because we are an utter mess no doubt

Having said that, we still have a right to expect to see at least some small measure of improvement in the team and players over the previous regime, but "on the field" it isn't there in the slightest. We should expect to see incremental improvement all along the way, and we aren't. That is what is concerning.

At least Butch and Co. are recruiting the way we need to in order to improve in the long term. That is the only saving grace thus far. I just want to see this staff improve dramatically in getting players and the team to overachieve on the field.
 
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#148
#148
BigOrangeTrain said:
There are some who will just not understand this concept. They will ignorantly say what Malzahan has done at AUor Meyer at UF. Apparently those coaches had to follow exactly what Jones has had to.

According to some so called fans on VN, because Jones has not turned us into a top 10 team this season, he has underachieved and his ability has to be questioned.
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Are you really comparing Butch Jones to Nick Saban? A previous poster pointed out MANY examples of guys who turned teams around in one year.

I think what some are saying is this. No one expects a team that is fallen hard to win it all in their first year with a new head coach, but it's ok to expect to win a few more than last year and not get blown out in most games against ranked teams. I applaud you guys for still expecting more than what you are getting right now. But I will say this, any staff with Martinez and Janczek can't be called the best staff in America.
 
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#149
#149
sjt18 said:
They have almost every year since Richts first couple.

They have the talent and recruiting base to compete with Bama every year.
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If you don't know the restrictions the administration puts on the football program as well as the tight leash put on the money spent on facilities, it would be difficult to make an educated statement there.
 
#150
#150
TDawg said:
Are you really comparing Butch Jones to Nick Saban? A previous poster pointed out MANY examples of guys who turned teams around in one year.

I think what some are saying is this. No one expects a team that is fallen hard to win it all in their first year with a new head coach, but it's ok to expect to win a few more than last year and not get blown out in most games against ranked teams. I applaud you guys for still expecting more than what you are getting right now. But I will say this, any staff with Martinez and Janczek can't be called the best staff in America.
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I think more were expecting us to be more competative and better than last three years but there isn't any noticable improvement!
 
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